Jeff Hornacek #farmville . Does he suck?

[Robot]

I want to start a thread to discuss whether or not Jeff Hornacek actually sucks as a coach or not.

I will defer to our basketball statistical geniuses but I feel like dude has 0 x/o skills and 0 interpersonal skills.

Am I wrong ? Mayyybeeee I am.

Let me know

- R

[Robot]

My first argument against him -- yesterday after those two crucial time outs. The 'play' he drew up or whatever happened reminded me of when you play NBA Live and just sit the controller on the floor and all the AI players just move around randomly.

My second argument is his rotations / player personality management and overall team cohesiveness … I blame that on him, to a large degree, he is the leader and should be setting a tone. Much of what happened with Dragic, IT and related could have been handled better IMO. Part of that is his fault IMO.

Maybe he needs to touch his face more? IMO he does

- R

this post sponsored by IMO

[Danimal]

I think everyone in the IT Dragic situation could of handled it better.
I have been wanting to see how Hornacek makes the transition from buddy buddy coach to the more serious style of coach where the are a little bit of fear in the players.

I think he has given some players a bit too much rope (Morri) and needed to be more proactive. Such as Len into the starting lineup sooner. If veteran guys like Tucker keep making the same mistakes then bench them. There are new guys with more upside desperate to get some playing time, so make the vets more accountable.

He has had to juggle in bit with the roster since its never clear whether we want to hitch our wagon to our vets or develop our picks with that's the team we see wanting to bring us forward. The roster has kind of been in no mans land since we keep hedging our bets between kinda fighting for playoffs and kind developing our picks. So I'm willing to see him for another season but I expect him to keep showing signs and development and more assertiveness.

What I don't want to see us do is fall back into old habits of switching between player friendly coaches and then hardball coaches (skiles much). I would like to see if Hornacek is able to continue to self improve for another season with a more settled roster. If D'antonio could have done this we would have been kings.
I am interested to see what kind of response he has to the shit show against the spurs.

[Wally_West]

I want to start a thread to discuss whether or not Jeff Hornacek actually sucks as a coach or not.

I will defer to our basketball statistical geniuses but I feel like dude has 0 x/o skills and 0 interpersonal skills.

Am I wrong ? Mayyybeeee I am.

Let me know

- R

Hmm, you also said Alex Len was worthless last year...so how can we trust your opinion now?

But seriously, I think it is too early to say if he is a good coach or not. I think he was dealt a shitty hand this year and his inexperience is showing. I think next year will be more telling than this year,

[Superbone]

Let's give the second year coach a chance.

[SDC]

his substitution patterns in the last few minutes of the game needs improvement. why doesnt he use green for last second shots? when IT was with phoenix, why is he in the game for last second 4th qtr defensive purposes?

[virtual9mm]

I am with OE here, I am starting to feel that the vibes on this board are excessively negative. Last year, Jeff Hornacek was considered a genius by us all, seeing how the team overachieved. This year, many of the same people are pretty much calling him an idiot.

It's pretty clear to me that Hornacek is an excellent coach given the right circumstances, where he has the strategic and tactical freedom to earn buy-in from the players. This year, where Hornacek could not control contract situations, demands for additional usage and a mess of a roster where players could not be placed into proper roles, he's undoubtedly sucked at times. So, it's pretty clear to me that Hornacek is an atrocious coach given the wrong circumstances.

The question is how to create the right kind of circumstances. As many (astute) observers have noted, ball movement has improved greatly since the trade and hero ball has decreased -- at least until this game, when the team has come out extremely flat. Flush this turd and play the next one.

Let's see how Hornacek does the rest of the season. I would like to remind everyone not to jump to conclusions too quickly. Not to single you out, but Robot -- remember how you were portraying Alex Len just at the beginning of the season. I'm not ready to sing the praises of McDonough, Babby and Hornacek quite yet, but I am very cautiously optimistic about the team going forwards.

[SDC]

i saw jeff try to slam a clipboard in their game vs OKC. he feeling the pressure?

[INFORMER]

It's pretty clear to me that Hornacek is an excellent coach given the right circumstances, where he has the strategic and tactical freedom to earn buy-in from the players. This year, where Hornacek could not control contract situations, demands for additional usage and a mess of a roster where players could not be placed into proper roles, he's undoubtedly sucked at times. So, it's pretty clear to me that Hornacek is an atrocious coach given the wrong circumstances.

Well said.

[The Bobster]

I think Hornacek is a pretty average coach. If they would have given him parts that fit together better the team certainly would have a better record this year, however, there have been plenty of missteps along the way - especially with the more headstrong players.

A coach doesn't have to be a taskmaster, but he has to have control of his team. That has been my biggest problem with him this year.

[Robot]

I think Hornacek is a pretty average coach. If they would have given him parts that fit together better the team certainly would have a better record this year, however, there have been plenty of missteps along the way - especially with the more headstrong players.

A coach doesn't have to be a taskmaster, but he has to have control of his team. That has been my biggest problem with him this year.

I agree with this assessment. Ultimately, a coach is going to have a short lived tenure with a team if they don't show growth or success. In some cases, they do and they still get the axe for some reason , team needs a change, isn't growing fast enough, is lethargic.

I have not watched a ton of games unfortunately but, it appears that Hornacek is a bit limp in terms of his ability to lead . One of the biggest things I see with the Suns this year -- there is no team cohesion, there is little team unity, and there appears to be no confidence given to guys to grow overall team confidence.

For a young team, a group of players with some difficult personalities, someone needs to get them to rise to the occasion and part of that is deciding how you can make the most of them, their specific skill and how to make them feel involved. They have to believe they are working toward something

I don't get a sense that Hornacek has the ability to do that as a personality OR as a coach. His XO strategy is terrible. Sure he is young too but the mix doesn't make sense. He played in the NBA forever it's not like he doesn't know. He was a different type of player who maybe didn't need that motivation and I can see that in his coaching.

Also , his play calling is so bad .

I think last year was unexpected. NO PRESSURE at all and there was success in the 2 PG combination, that just happened to work out. He doesn't seem to have the teams respect which = bad

- R

[Sunsfan4life]

Whats up with the #farmville? Am I missing something?

[Superbone]

Whats up with the #farmville? Am I missing something?

The same thing I'm missing.

[Mori Chu]

I think that Hornacek is a decent coach, but that he is inexperienced and isn't great at managing egos and would be a lot more effective if he had veterans who bought into him and his system. I don't think Bledsoe and Markieff are the kind of vets who really stick out as leaders on the floor or in the locker room. Without a few respected players backing you up, your authority gets kind of undermined.

That said, I don't entirely blame the players. I am often disappointed with player rotations, for example. Why is Brandan Wright on the floor at the same time as Earl Barron? Why do we have 2-3 tiny guards on the floor on a last-second defensive possession? Why do Goodwin and Warren get a nice stint of minutes, but then both a DNP-CD when we are "really trying" to win against OKC?

I also think Horny is not a good disciplinarian and not good at holding players accountable. That suspension-for-a-tech thing was amateur hour. Institutes it, uses it and likely loses 1-2 games because of it, then immediately rescinds it. What?? I also think the handling of malcontented players like Marcus Morris has been pretty shabby. Bench these dudes and tell them to STFU and who cares about the consequences. Maybe that's just not Hornacek's demeanor, but, well, it should be. I don't want a Scott Skiles, but I want a firm coach who commands respect.

I'm worried about our offense. I watch our offense and I just see a bunch of guys running around doing their own thing. Whenever I hear that a team has a "motion" offense, I always take that as a synonym for, "We don't run an offense." I also really wish I saw us running more pick-and-rolls and especially running better plays out of timeouts. Where are the plays? Where are the easy baskets? I don't know.

I'm also worried about our defense. I'm not a student of the game so I don't totally understand the nuances of defense. But we just get beaten a lot and guys don't seem to work together or communicate much. We don't have a lot of good rebounders on the team, and it is so frustrating to see the opponent miss and then just get an offensive rebound. We have these supposed "plus defenders" in guys like Bledsoe and Knight, but they get blown by on the perimeter plenty. I always groan when I hear that they "focus on offense in practice." What? How can you not focus on both ends of the floor in practice? Both ends freaking matter. I really wish we had a coach who preached defense, or at least, a top-notch assistant who helped out with that end. Remember that one game where supposedly Hornacek "emphasized rebounding" in practice, and then we had insane rebounding numbers the next game? That shows me that they're capable of so much better, so much more, on defense and it is being untapped so far.

Overall I don't hate Hornacek but this season has really exposed his inexperience and areas that he needs to work on. I don't think he is currently a coach who could lead a team to a title, but I don't know if that is a bad thing for this team right now. I really want to see him improve and want to give him the time to do so. In a year or two, if he's making the same kinds of mistakes consistently, I'd be more concerned.

[carey]

Whats up with the #farmville? Am I missing something?

The same thing I'm missing.

A while back Robot made a joke about Jeff just messing around on Farmville (old facebook game) instead of, you know... coaching.

[EDC]

I'm worried about our offense. I watch our offense and I just see a bunch of guys running around doing their own thing. Whenever I hear that a team has a "motion" offense, I always take that as a synonym for, "We don't run an offense." I also really wish I saw us running more pick-and-rolls and especially running better plays out of timeouts. Where are the plays? Where are the easy baskets? I don't know.

I'm really worried about the offense as well. We started the season with an offensive set and the players seemed really confused out on the floor. I don't know if the players were just against the idea of the offensive set or they were confused. Either way the coach had to do something. They made adjustments and then nothing else for the rest of the season. We still score a decent amount but we don't get easy shots most of the time. Most of the shots are contested. That really shows when teams play hard defense at the end of games and we struggle to even get a decent shot up.

The fact that coach hasn't found a way to make it easier for the guys on the offensive end or the guys aren't listening to him is a big issue. As a young team we should be trying to setup a system that will make our guys better instead of just letting them go out there and do whatever they want.

I love that they make a token effort of running some sort of system at the beginning of the clock when they make these half ass passes around the top of the key. Before giving up on it and just going one on one.

Two of our guards are gone and we are still doing the same thing so it is probably what coach wants and that is disappointing.

[Robot]

I think that Hornacek is a decent coach, but that he is inexperienced and isn't great at managing egos and would be a lot more effective if he had veterans who bought into him and his system. I don't think Bledsoe and Markieff are the kind of vets who really stick out as leaders on the floor or in the locker room. Without a few respected players backing you up, your authority gets kind of undermined.

That said, I don't entirely blame the players. I am often disappointed with player rotations, for example. Why is Brandan Wright on the floor at the same time as Earl Barron? Why do we have 2-3 tiny guards on the floor on a last-second defensive possession? Why do Goodwin and Warren get a nice stint of minutes, but then both a DNP-CD when we are "really trying" to win against OKC?

I also think Horny is not a good disciplinarian and not good at holding players accountable. That suspension-for-a-tech thing was amateur hour. Institutes it, uses it and likely loses 1-2 games because of it, then immediately rescinds it. What?? I also think the handling of malcontented players like Marcus Morris has been pretty shabby. Bench these dudes and tell them to STFU and who cares about the consequences. Maybe that's just not Hornacek's demeanor, but, well, it should be. I don't want a Scott Skiles, but I want a firm coach who commands respect.

I'm worried about our offense. I watch our offense and I just see a bunch of guys running around doing their own thing. Whenever I hear that a team has a "motion" offense, I always take that as a synonym for, "We don't run an offense." I also really wish I saw us running more pick-and-rolls and especially running better plays out of timeouts. Where are the plays? Where are the easy baskets? I don't know.

I'm also worried about our defense. I'm not a student of the game so I don't totally understand the nuances of defense. But we just get beaten a lot and guys don't seem to work together or communicate much. We don't have a lot of good rebounders on the team, and it is so frustrating to see the opponent miss and then just get an offensive rebound. We have these supposed "plus defenders" in guys like Bledsoe and Knight, but they get blown by on the perimeter plenty. I always groan when I hear that they "focus on offense in practice." What? How can you not focus on both ends of the floor in practice? Both ends freaking matter. I really wish we had a coach who preached defense, or at least, a top-notch assistant who helped out with that end. Remember that one game where supposedly Hornacek "emphasized rebounding" in practice, and then we had insane rebounding numbers the next game? That shows me that they're capable of so much better, so much more, on defense and it is being untapped so far.

Overall I don't hate Hornacek but this season has really exposed his inexperience and areas that he needs to work on. I don't think he is currently a coach who could lead a team to a title, but I don't know if that is a bad thing for this team right now. I really want to see him improve and want to give him the time to do so. In a year or two, if he's making the same kinds of mistakes consistently, I'd be more concerned.

Spot on Mori

- R

[Robot]

Yes. #farmville is what I imagine Jeff is thinking about during a game unless Marcus is yelling at him. I am suggesting it become a thing around these parts.

- R

[Uncle_Gene]

Jeff Hornacek deserves a chance with a roster "not" glutted by a bunch of guards. He can only roll with what he's got.

[Indy]

Whenever I hear that a team has a "motion" offense, I always take that as a synonym for, "We don't run an offense."

The Spurs run a motion offense much of the time.