If it were up to you, would you keep Knight or Bledsoe...

[Charlie Smithy!]

...or C, none of the above?

I realize that this is very much borderline thread-worthy, but it's obviously clear that neither Bledsoe or Knight are point guards.

Assuming we abandon the theoretical two-PG philosophy (which you'd think would happen with a new coach...maybe?), where, in the mind of phx-suns.net, does that leave Brandon Knight and Eric Bledsoe?

For me, they're both talented, athletic players - but lacking in Bball IQ immensely. And, in Knight's case especially, lacking in consistency from game to game (sometimes in the same game).

We'd obviously be able to get talent back for these two guys, so again, put on your collective GM caps and tell me what you'd do!

Nodack:

Kailsh, when it rises.

Darmok and Jalad, at Tanagra

Shaka, when the walls fell.

[carey]

I don't know. They both have their major flaws. I doubt anyone would give up anything significant for either at this point anyway.

[The Bobster]

Probably Bledsoe - I think they could get a little more for him, and even though he's point guard-sized he'll never be a point guard.

I think it's time to clean house and listen to offers for Bledsoe, Chandler, Morris, Tucker and Knight.

Nobody's untouchable, but I'd like to hold on to Len, Warren and Booker.

[Mori Chu]

Does anyone think Bledsoe and/or Knight would be salvageable by a talented offensive coach who could force them to play the "right" way and share the ball? A hard-ass coach who would make them do what they need to do?

Honestly I think Knight is the dud of the two. Booker will be a better starting SG in a year or two anyway. We never should have traded for Knight. He sometimes has big games but he makes a lot of boneheaded mistakes and chokes a lot down the stretch. I wish we'd ship him out for a pick or a young PF or something. Or I wish I could Doc Brown it and go back and not trade for him in the first place.

[Split T]

Honestly, and I know this probably goes against how most feel, but I think Bled and Knight are the least of our problems. They've both been pretty good this year.

What's everyone's issue with them, is it just the style of play? They are obviously both scoring pg's and while everyone can improve their court recognition/passing, I don't want them trying to be steve nash or chris paul, that's simply not their game and not what makes them good.

I just don't get the hate, if you disagree with the philosophy of having a scoring pg that's one thing, but simply being a scoring pg doesn't make them bad. Should Westbrook be forced to play the right way? How about Lowry, or Lillard or even Steph Curry. Bledsoe has a higher assist rate than Curry this year and is essentially even with westbrook/lowry/lillard. Outside of Rondo, Rubio, CP3, and Conley, is there a top 15ish PG who is significantly a better distributor than Bledsoe. Maybe Wall.

I think we just had nash/kidd for so long that we all have a biased opinion on what a pg should be.

Our real problem is just a lack of talent. Tucker should be a 12 minute a game guy and he's getting 30. Markieff is clearly not invested and needs to be shipped out. Teletovic and Leuer are nice role players but not stars. Put a bonafide #1 guy at the 3/4 on this team and we'd be a legit contender(well at least for a top 4 seed, not sure anyone is within contending distance of GS)

[TOO]

Neither PG can run a PnR, thats sad. I'm keeping Knight if given the choice.

[Ring_Wanted]

I trade Brandon Knight frist, but obviously if somebody goes crazy with an offer for Bledsoe I am not refusing it. Some of Bledsoe's flaws but comes also with fragility and no defense. Better shooting ability but worse shot selection. Impressive ability to make bonehead plays in crunch time. As advertised, SG in the body of a PG through and through (which also gets much more in Booker's way than Bledsoe).

My issue is that by combining those two specific players your net gains suffer a lot. They score, but there is very little offensive flow and opposite teams have it pretty easy to defend. They have no ability to play the pick and roll/pop, a capital sin in this sport if you don't have Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant. They use too many possessions for themselves so other players get anxious about touches. Turn the ball at a disgusting rate.

I like the thought of a Bledsoe-Booker backcourt. Knight-Booker, on the other hand...

I am tempted to still believe that this roster, plus a relevant player at PF, gives you a bonafide playoff team with a chance at contention, but honestly the mental lapses are too much. Plugging in a top PF is not going to turn these guys into smart players. It could reduce the amount of decisions they have to make every game but sooner or later you just know somebody is going to screw up.

[virtual9mm]

IMHO the inability to play the pick-and-roll is what makes the current guard rotation unworkable. Why bring in Chandler if you won't run the one play that prevents him from being a liability on offense?

I'd trot out a Bledsoe-Booker starting backcourt. At least Knight is putting up numbers that look AWESOME...on paper. One way to build trade value.

[OE32]

I'd keep them through the year and see if we can trade one of them during the draft. I'd look at Philly - Saric and a pick for Bled?

What we need are assets that mesh with our future - as Bobster says, Warren, Len and Booker. Hard to get assets like that in a mid-season trade.

To those who don't think they'd get much in a trade - I think that's silly. They're not the problem with this team. Guards who score and shoot so well do not grow on trees. They're young and very talented. They're not bad locker room guys, and they're on very reasonable, long term contracts. Players of their quality are rarely traded these days.

I'd like to run with our young guys the rest of the season. Kind of a tank, but really, just developing young talent. To that end, I'd like to trade not only Keef, but also Tucker and Chandler. Len needs a backup, not an obstacle. And I think there are a few teams that would be very happy to add Chandler to their roster. Does McD have the authority/the balls to go ahead with such a plan?

Plenty of solid PF prospects will be available in this year's lottery. It's the biggest hole on the roster in terms of young talent. Let's play the long game. We'll return to relevance when our young players - not our vets - take that leap, a la Utah.

[Ring_Wanted]

I just can't stand this dumb brand of basketball.

Knight is starting to make me sick. Kieff and Tucker are well documented on this area. Teletovic makes Channing Frye look like an all around beast, but credit where it is due; he is making shots and at leat tries, just is too outclassed physically to play extended minutes (and often has questionable shot selection too).

Hornacek is making beyond dumb decisions with his lineups. 3 PGs one of them Ronnie Price? Really? Warren-Teletovic-Leuer frontcourt? Come on now.

Remove these people from my sight.

As for the others, Bledsoe sure makes his share of mistakes but it is far from that bunch. Chandler is a terrific mentor to Len and gives you real depth. I want to keep them both.

[LazarusLong]

Honestly, and I know this probably goes against how most feel, but I think Bled and Knight are the least of our problems. They've both been pretty good this year.

What's everyone's issue with them, is it just the style of play? They are obviously both scoring pg's and while everyone can improve their court recognition/passing, I don't want them trying to be steve nash or chris paul, that's simply not their game and not what makes them good.

I just don't get the hate, if you disagree with the philosophy of having a scoring pg that's one thing, but simply being a scoring pg doesn't make them bad.

I agree with Splitter. The problem is the offense, which is totally unimaginative: two quick guards breaking down the defense and everybody reacting from there. The starters for most of the season -- Chandler/Len, Morris and Tucker have minimal offensive skills and are, to be polite, sub-par passers.

Investing that much in two guys running a limited-option offense makes the team totally predictable. Opposition coaches know they can hang with the Suns within 10 pts or so because good defense can limit Phoenix in the fourth quarter (because the same frontcourt starters on the court at the end of the game.)

Seriously, I know high school coaches who are more strategic and creative than this alleged "braintrust" that Phoenix has.

[Mori Chu]

Good thread. I agree with a lot of what's being said. Both Bledsoe and Knight are good players individually, but putting them together compounds their flaws and doesn't much enhance their strengths. Our offense bogs down and is way too much about our guards taking turns going one-on-one. It's like the Thunder offense, only with way less talented offensive players. It isn't going to work.

Would love to ship out Knight and Markieff, even if we don't get much back. I just think our minutes at the 2/4 would be better given to Booker and Leuer/Telly at this point. That would also free up some minutes for Goodwin, who could be a backup guard in the rotation along with Price.

[Indy]

I haven't been a big fan up to this point, but Goodwin has been very impressive in the (very) limited spots he has been given this year. I would be all for trying to see if he is a 3rd or 4th guard, or should be set free.

If I had to pick one of the guys to keep as our PG, it would be Bledsoe. That is a stark contrast to what I said six months ago, or even a few weeks ago. I don't think either are above average PGs in this league, but Eric doesn't try the hero shot near as often as Knight does (or the hero drive near as much as he used to), and he busts his ass on the glass. I love to see that effort.

[Indy]

Honestly, and I know this probably goes against how most feel, but I think Bled and Knight are the least of our problems. They've both been pretty good this year.

What's everyone's issue with them, is it just the style of play? They are obviously both scoring pg's and while everyone can improve their court recognition/passing, I don't want them trying to be steve nash or chris paul, that's simply not their game and not what makes them good.

I just don't get the hate, if you disagree with the philosophy of having a scoring pg that's one thing, but simply being a scoring pg doesn't make them bad.

I agree with Splitter. The problem is the offense, which is totally unimaginative: two quick guards breaking down the defense and everybody reacting from there. The starters for most of the season -- Chandler/Len, Morris and Tucker have minimal offensive skills and are, to be polite, sub-par passers.

Investing that much in two guys running a limited-option offense makes the team totally predictable. Opposition coaches know they can hang with the Suns within 10 pts or so because good defense can limit Phoenix in the fourth quarter (because the same frontcourt starters on the court at the end of the game.)

Seriously, I know high school coaches who are more strategic and creative than this alleged "braintrust" that Phoenix has.

I understand we have deep issues, but honestly, when you have $28M/year for the foreseeable future locked up in 2 PGs that can't run a simple PnR, one (or both) need to go.

[In2ition]

I vote for both to go.

[Split T]

Honestly, and I know this probably goes against how most feel, but I think Bled and Knight are the least of our problems. They've both been pretty good this year.

What's everyone's issue with them, is it just the style of play? They are obviously both scoring pg's and while everyone can improve their court recognition/passing, I don't want them trying to be steve nash or chris paul, that's simply not their game and not what makes them good.

I just don't get the hate, if you disagree with the philosophy of having a scoring pg that's one thing, but simply being a scoring pg doesn't make them bad.

I agree with Splitter. The problem is the offense, which is totally unimaginative: two quick guards breaking down the defense and everybody reacting from there. The starters for most of the season -- Chandler/Len, Morris and Tucker have minimal offensive skills and are, to be polite, sub-par passers.

Investing that much in two guys running a limited-option offense makes the team totally predictable. Opposition coaches know they can hang with the Suns within 10 pts or so because good defense can limit Phoenix in the fourth quarter (because the same frontcourt starters on the court at the end of the game.)

Seriously, I know high school coaches who are more strategic and creative than this alleged "braintrust" that Phoenix has.

Good points, I think we'd all like a warriors/hawks ball movement offense, but the truth is we run the thunder style take turns dribble drive offense.

An offense that clearly doesn't fit Tucker and Kieff, neither who are great shooters or cutters. It actually fits guys like Warren, Booker, teletovic and leuer.

In reality, we need to blow the team up, but we won't so I'll settle for moving Tucker and Kieff, playing crappy enough to get some decent ping pong balls and getting major lucky in the lottery. Cuz adding Ben Simmons to this team would actually make sense

[OE32]

In reality, we need to blow the team up, but we won't so I'll settle for moving Tucker and Kieff, playing crappy enough to get some decent ping pong balls and getting major lucky in the lottery. Cuz adding Ben Simmons to this team would actually make sense

Or Bender, or Sabonis, or one of the other high-level PF prospects that will be in this year's lotto...

[In2ition]

Ben Simmons

[Indy]

Honestly, and I know this probably goes against how most feel, but I think Bled and Knight are the least of our problems. They've both been pretty good this year.

What's everyone's issue with them, is it just the style of play? They are obviously both scoring pg's and while everyone can improve their court recognition/passing, I don't want them trying to be steve nash or chris paul, that's simply not their game and not what makes them good.

I just don't get the hate, if you disagree with the philosophy of having a scoring pg that's one thing, but simply being a scoring pg doesn't make them bad.

I agree with Splitter. The problem is the offense, which is totally unimaginative: two quick guards breaking down the defense and everybody reacting from there. The starters for most of the season -- Chandler/Len, Morris and Tucker have minimal offensive skills and are, to be polite, sub-par passers.

Investing that much in two guys running a limited-option offense makes the team totally predictable. Opposition coaches know they can hang with the Suns within 10 pts or so because good defense can limit Phoenix in the fourth quarter (because the same frontcourt starters on the court at the end of the game.)

Seriously, I know high school coaches who are more strategic and creative than this alleged "braintrust" that Phoenix has.

Good points, I think we'd all like a warriors/hawks ball movement offense, but the truth is we run the thunder style take turns dribble drive offense.

An offense that clearly doesn't fit Tucker and Kieff, neither who are great shooters or cutters. It actually fits guys like Warren, Booker, teletovic and leuer.

In reality, we need to blow the team up, but we won't so I'll settle for moving Tucker and Kieff, playing crappy enough to get some decent ping pong balls and getting major lucky in the lottery. Cuz adding Ben Simmons to this team would actually make sense

Don't you think getting rid of those guys will improve our play? Wouldn't that decrease ping pong balls? Honestly, this would be a good year to get guys like TJ, Archie, Booker, and Len 35 mpg and fill the rest out with whomever, essentially tanking. I would support this, since this year is likely a big bust anyway.

[Split T]

Don't you think getting rid of those guys will improve our play? Wouldn't that decrease ping pong balls? Honestly, this would be a good year to get guys like TJ, Archie, Booker, and Len 35 mpg and fill the rest out with whomever, essentially tanking. I would support this, since this year is likely a big bust anyway.

Ya, it would probably improve our play. I'd be all for playing Len, Warren, Booker, and Archie a lot.