Around the League: Week 18 2/22-2/28

[ShelC]

Yea Stevie didn't have the mentality to be that kind of scorer but he was as deadly as they come. I think Steph is more athletic and has amazing range.

[Charlie Smithy!]

I mean let's be honest with ourselves here; we all know that Steph really is just a rich man's Jimmer Fredette!

[Superbone]

I'm watching Heat/Knicks and the Heat have Dragic, Amare, Joe Johnson all on the court at the same time along with Deng/Wade.

[pickle]

I mean let's be honest with ourselves here; we all know that Steph really is just a rich man's Jimmer Fredette!

LOL... I don't think Nash's offensive game is anywhere near Curry's level; he couldn't shoot off the dribble as well as Curry does. In fact I think nobody could. But I think his catch and shoot or spot up shooting is just as good. On the other hand, given that defenses did not have to respect Nash's offensive game as much as Curry's, it makes his passing game that much more amazing, compared to Curry. Only difference is, there have been good passers from other eras that are similar to Nash in their ability to elevate everybody's game, but few scorers that could outgun other top shooters like Curry has these last two seasons. Amazing stuff. And I'd have to add, consistency is a talent... The most amazing part about Curry is the very fact that he's doing this on a nightly basis.

[pickle]

I'm watching Heat/Knicks and the Heat have Dragic, Amare, Joe Johnson all on the court at the same time along with Deng/Wade.

Deng was basically a Sun.

[Superbone]

Nash was excellent at shooting off the dribble. I remember a bunch of pull up threes.

[Superbone]

I'm watching Heat/Knicks and the Heat have Dragic, Amare, Joe Johnson all on the court at the same time along with Deng/Wade.

Deng was basically a Sun.

Nah, word was they wanted Igoudala.

[Indy]

Nash was excellent at shooting off the dribble. I remember a bunch of pull up threes.

Yep. Especially against Dallas.

[pickle]

Sure, every good NBA player would have a career game once in a while where they can't miss, and I'm not saying Nash can't shoot off the dribble, just that he doesn't do it as well as Curry does. I haven't looked up the statistics on this but I have read that Curry shoots off the dribble as well as any great shooter on catch and shoots, and usually there's a discrepancy of up to 10% on those two numbers, which is why I made that statement. If advanced statistics says that Nash is equally proficient, then I stand corrected.

[Split T]

I mean let's be honest with ourselves here; we all know that Steph really is just a rich man's Jimmer Fredette!

Living in Utah, it's amazing how many people still think jimmer could play similar to curry if he just got the chance. Jimmer is to Curry as Archie is to Wade. Put jimmer and Archie in the d league and they look like curry/wade but no where close on an NBA court.

[The Bobster]

Curry is Nash with Dan Majerle crazy range. And more of a scorer's mentality.

He's a perfect fit for the current NBA that emphasizes the perimeter game and doesn't allow physical defense like there use to be outside the paint.

[Charlie Smithy!]

I mean let's be honest with ourselves here; we all know that Steph really is just a rich man's Jimmer Fredette!

Living in Utah, it's amazing how many people still think jimmer could play similar to curry if he just got the chance. Jimmer is to Curry as Archie is to Wade. Put jimmer and Archie in the d league and they look like curry/wade but no where close on an NBA court.

Living in Idaho, I sometimes hear the same thing, haha.

As a fan of BYU basketball, it was weird seeing Jimmer get to the basket at will in college and then have it be quite the opposite in the pros.

Can't say I was surprised.

My lingering memory of Jimmer will probably be his last game where he pretty much single-handedly shot us out of it against Florida. What still sorta galls me, is that in the first half, Jimmer was actually passing the ball around to Emery and crew and we were staying in it. Ah well.

</byusportsthreadjack>

[Charlie Smithy!]

Curry is Nash with Dan Majerle crazy range. And more of a scorer's mentality.

He's a perfect fit for the current NBA that emphasizes the perimeter game and doesn't allow physical defense like there use to be outside the paint.

Bob, in your mind, how different would Steph Curry's game be if he played in the era of hand-checking (amongst other things)?

I still can't believe he's as good as he is. Dell Curry was a great shooter, but not near the player his son is. Maybe it's the Ken Griffey Sr/Jr thing playing out in another sport.

[pickle]

I feel like he doesn't dominate nearly as much in that era because people just got in your jaw and shoved you enough to affect both your dribbling and your shooting. No way in the mid-90s would Curry have the spacing in front of him to even show us that fancy handle he worked so hard to improve.

I remember one year when we played the Knicks, Nate Robinson gave Nash a lot of problems, because he was a smaller guy and the refs basically let him bear hug nash all the way down the court without calling a foul. Or the way Bowen used to use his little bag of dirty tricks to get players to slow down while running without the ball. None of those are tolerated today but when you could resort to them, look out. In that sense I might have talked myself into mid-80s John Stockton being the perfect Curry stopper.

[JCSunsfan]

Curry is Nash with Dan Majerle crazy range. And more of a scorer's mentality.

He's a perfect fit for the current NBA that emphasizes the perimeter game and doesn't allow physical defense like there use to be outside the paint.

Bob, in your mind, how different would Steph Curry's game be if he played in the era of hand-checking (amongst other things)?

I still can't believe he's as good as he is. Dell Curry was a great shooter, but not near the player his son is. Maybe it's the Ken Griffey Sr/Jr thing playing out in another sport.

Curry would have a hard time, all those wide wide open shots from the three and beyond would mess with his mind. Honestly, go back and watch clips of those days. They defended drives to the hoop etc, but rarely even defended the three point shot. Curry would be half way through the season averaging 35 a game before they would have believed he was for real.

[In2ition]

There is a lot of romantic remembrance of the past NBA. All this talk of how the defense was so much better in the past, including Oscar Robinson's time is a whole lot of hogwash. I've gone back and watched those old games in the 60's and 70's, and their defense was atrocious. There was a reason they averaged something like 120 pts per game. Same with these same people saying that LeBron wouldn't be able to play in the Jordan era. Are you f'n kidding me? He's the size of Malone was with Jordan's athleticism, no one in that time could keep him from getting off on those guys. No one was as strong as LeBron from the SF position. Also, the rules go both ways and now you are letting LeBron put his hands on the other guy. Forget about it. Curry would be great in any era, and probably even better in older ones.

[ShelC]

I'd say the mid-90s teams and their defenses were the most physical and would give Curry the most trouble. If Curry tried driving the lane against the mid 90s Knicks with Mason, Oak and Ewing they'd be taking him off the court on a gurney. Pistons, Pacers (with the Davis twins), the Heat (with Zo and Mase). Hand checking was allowed so imagine the likes of

[pickle]

There is a lot of romantic remembrance of the past NBA. All this talk of how the defense was so much better in the past, including Oscar Robinson's time is a whole lot of hogwash. I've gone back and watched those old games in the 60's and 70's, and their defense was atrocious. There was a reason they averaged something like 120 pts per game. Same with these same people saying that LeBron wouldn't be able to play in the Jordan era. Are you f'n kidding me? He's the size of Malone was with Jordan's athleticism, no one in that time could keep him from getting off on those guys. No one was as strong as LeBron from the SF position. Also, the rules go both ways and now you are letting LeBron put his hands on the other guy. Forget about it. Curry would be great in any era, and probably even better in older ones.

You are probably right about the 60s and 70s, but as Shel says, the late 80s with the Bad Boys and the mid 90s with the teams that he named was a time when defense really got very very physical. From memory, there were a couple of teams in the early 90s that realized that while offense takes incredible amount of talent, defense really only takes willpower and physicality. The average scoring in the league went quickly from the 110 range to the 90 range, and the games became somewhat unwatchable.

This is not to say that Lebron wouldn't survive in that era, and yes he would also be able to dish out the same punishment that he receives. But in the discussion at hand, we are simply considering whether it's possible that Curry enjoys his current offensive success in that era, and my guess is not. Sure teams will be shocked by his outside shooting range, but the very fact that you are allowed to hand check on the perimeter means that you don't have to give any speedy guys a lot of space. You simply stay on his hip and block him with your arm if he tried to make a move. That's not to say that a guy like Curry can never get past a good defender in the 90s, just that the amount of space that he can shoot from will drop precipitously as the season wears on. And he will also not earn nearly as much respect driving the lane, both because most big men probably won't hesitate to really put him on his ass, and also there were almost no stretch 4s then and the lane was much more clogged. He'd still be a sweet shooter, but just won't be given as much space to show it off. He may still be the best off the dribble shooter in the league, but won't be averaging 30+ points at these historic percentages.

[The Bobster]

It's kind of pointless comparing eras - Curry would not have had the same sort of instruction and competition as a young player if he had been growing up in the 60's or 70's. There were different rules and no three-point line (in the NBA), stricter interpretation of ballhandling rules and there were very few small guards in the league that he could have matched up with defensively.

He's never had a guy like Maurice Lucas or Dave Cowens knock him on his ass, he's never been mugged by a guy like Norm Van Lier or Jerry Sloan.

And yes, team defenses are probably better now with better overall athleticism and constant switching, but with less switching there was also fewer players left wide open for perimeter shots.

This is the problem we all encounter when we compare players from different eras. They just aren't playing the same game.