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[Flagrant Fowl]

Can you explain more about the draft order?

Yeah, I'm totally confused about draft order. Just tell me where I draft. I got off to a bad start at the bottom of the draft last year anyway. And now Klay is out for the year.

Each manager has their choice of draft position based on the 2019 final standings with priority given to the higher seed.

SplitT finished in 1st place so he was given the first choice of his desired draft position. He chose to keep Trae Young and Brandon Ingram as his keepers. Since Trae Young will consume his 1st round pick, his first "2020 draft pick" will come in the 2nd round. The draft position that will benefit him the most is one that gives him the highest possible pick in the 2nd round, which is the 12th position in the first round because we're conducting a snake draft.

It's worth noting that this is really only worth putting thought into if you have a keeper or keepers that will consume your draft picks in the first three rounds, IMO. If you're planning to keep two players from later rounds, like Superbone is with Murray (round 4) and Herro (round 10), you should probably just select the highest draft position available because you'll be selecting a new player in the first round.

If you're still having trouble understanding how this works my best advice is to just wait for all the keepers to be declared. I'll make a post of the keepers and where they will be selected in the upcoming draft once everyone has submitted their desired keepers. As each person makes their draft position selection (SplitT has already announced his, bajanguy008 is on the clock to decide), I'll update the post and lay out the options for anyone who's unsure which draft position will benefit them the most.

[Gladiator]

Hey FF, thanks again for pulling this together. Just a quick one for you (and the league) - are we able to swap the deadlines for draft order and keepers? What spot you land could easily sway a line-ball call with keepers - for example if I'm the last pick in the second round I may potentially choose Kemba Walker as a keeper, with pick 24 arguably ok for him and allows me to make some choices are team building with pick 1 and 3. But no way would I make that call if I had first pick in round 2. To my way of thinking, it's easier to nominate a draft position having a decent idea who your keepers will be, but harder to nominate your keepers without knowing what draft slot they'll be taking.

Not a big deal either way, but just makes sense to me. Cheers

PS: Christian Wood will be one of my keepers (7th round as a free agent pick up)

Thanks for your input. As for your question about selecting draft positions before keepers, it's a bit of a chicken or the egg situation.

If we selected draft positions first, we'd be guessing about which players might be kept and it would make the whole process more laborious for people to figure out. By selecting keepers first, we will eliminate the guess work of trying to figure out which players may or may not be available when making a draft position selection and managers really only have to consider how their own keeper selection affects their draft strategy.

Ultimately, I believe the draft is still more valuable than the two keeper selections, so it's better to have an understanding of the entire draft pool as it benefits managers when selecting a draft position and their draft strategy.

I hope that makes enough sense, and to be fair, I initially planned to organize the deadlines as you suggested, but I eventually came to the conclusion that it would be more difficult for managers to figure out than the way it is now.

Agreed re chicken and egg situation. I’m just having trouble choosing my chicken (keeper) without knowing where my eggs (draft position) are! I may be overthinking it but a couple of my possible retentions would only work as late picks in the round they were in.
As I said, not a big deal but if people were open to flipping the deadlines I would support that. If not, all good

[Charlie Smithy!]

My head.

[Superbone]

Can you explain more about the draft order?

Yeah, I'm totally confused about draft order. Just tell me where I draft. I got off to a bad start at the bottom of the draft last year anyway. And now Klay is out for the year.

Each manager has their choice of draft position based on the 2019 final standings with priority given to the higher seed.

SplitT finished in 1st place so he was given the first choice of his desired draft position. He chose to keep Trae Young and Brandon Ingram as his keepers. Since Trae Young will consume his 1st round pick, his first "2020 draft pick" will come in the 2nd round. The draft position that will benefit him the most is one that gives him the highest possible pick in the 2nd round, which is the 12th position in the first round because we're conducting a snake draft.

It's worth noting that this is really only worth putting thought into if you have a keeper or keepers that will consume your draft picks in the first three rounds, IMO. If you're planning to keep two players from later rounds, like Superbone is with Murray (round 4) and Herro (round 10), you should probably just select the highest draft position available because you'll be selecting a new player in the first round.

If you're still having trouble understanding how this works my best advice is to just wait for all the keepers to be declared. I'll make a post of the keepers and where they will be selected in the upcoming draft once everyone has submitted their desired keepers. As each person makes their draft position selection (SplitT has already announced his, bajanguy008 is on the clock to decide), I'll update the post and lay out the options for anyone who's unsure which draft position will benefit them the most.

Why does this work the opposite of the NBA where the worst teams get the best picks? Seems backwards.

[Flagrant Fowl]

Can you explain more about the draft order?

Yeah, I'm totally confused about draft order. Just tell me where I draft. I got off to a bad start at the bottom of the draft last year anyway. And now Klay is out for the year.

Each manager has their choice of draft position based on the 2019 final standings with priority given to the higher seed.

SplitT finished in 1st place so he was given the first choice of his desired draft position. He chose to keep Trae Young and Brandon Ingram as his keepers. Since Trae Young will consume his 1st round pick, his first "2020 draft pick" will come in the 2nd round. The draft position that will benefit him the most is one that gives him the highest possible pick in the 2nd round, which is the 12th position in the first round because we're conducting a snake draft.

It's worth noting that this is really only worth putting thought into if you have a keeper or keepers that will consume your draft picks in the first three rounds, IMO. If you're planning to keep two players from later rounds, like Superbone is with Murray (round 4) and Herro (round 10), you should probably just select the highest draft position available because you'll be selecting a new player in the first round.

If you're still having trouble understanding how this works my best advice is to just wait for all the keepers to be declared. I'll make a post of the keepers and where they will be selected in the upcoming draft once everyone has submitted their desired keepers. As each person makes their draft position selection (SplitT has already announced his, bajanguy008 is on the clock to decide), I'll update the post and lay out the options for anyone who's unsure which draft position will benefit them the most.

Why does this work the opposite of the NBA where the worst teams get the best picks? Seems backwards.

Because we didn't get to "finish" the last season, and I feel like it's an equitable reward for the managers who were in the higher positions when the fantasy season was ended.

In future seasons, we'll use a similar draft selection process, but the first choice will go to the consolation playoff winner (the team that finishes 7th).

[Superbone]

My head.

This league has become way too complicated. I don't even know what's going on anymore.

[ShelC]

I petition to receive the 1st pick. Who's with me?

[BigLewy]

My head.

This league has become way too complicated. I don't even know what's going on anymore.

Yup, I'm losing interest. Just give me a draft slot and I'll auto pick and set my lineup and away we go.

[Flagrant Fowl]

There're two things that each manager needs to do.

1. Pick two keeper players.
2. Pick a draft position.

If that's too difficult to follow, then I guess you should probably not join a keeper league.

I suppose a lot of the confusion is in part due to my explanation of the process and strategy suggestions.

[Flagrant Fowl]

My head.

This league has become way too complicated. I don't even know what's going on anymore.

Yup, I'm losing interest. Just give me a draft slot and I'll auto pick and set my lineup and away we go.

The point of this league is to increase engagement and entertainment for everyone. If your plan is to turn everything to "auto", then why did you have interest in the first place?

[Superbone]

There're two things that each manager needs to do.

1. Pick two keeper players.
2. Pick a draft position.

If that's too difficult to follow, then I guess you should probably not join a keeper league.

I suppose a lot of the confusion is in part due to my explanation of the process and strategy suggestions.

2. OK, I want first.

[Superbone]

I petition to receive the 1st pick. Who's with me?

I don't think you have to petition, I think you just ask for it? I don't know. I'm lost on that one.

[bIGDRAWLS0072]

And what about my team having multiple same round picks?

3rd Round - Donovan Mitchell Uta - PG,SG
4th Round - Chris Paul Pho - PG
2nd Round - Andre Drummond Cle - PF,C
4th Round - Danilo Gallinari OKC - SF,PF
4th Round - DeMar DeRozan SA - SG,SF
5th Round - Mike Conley Uta - PG
6th Round - Kelly Oubre Jr. OKC - SF,PF
3rd Round - Blake Griffin Det - PF,C
7th Round - Montrezl Harrell LAC - PF,C
5th Round - Kevin Love Cle - PF,C
7th Round - Terry Rozier Cha - PG,SG
8th Round - Lou Williams LAC - PG,SG
Free Agent - Dennis Schroder OKC - PG
Free Agent - Tim Hardaway Jr. Dal - SG,SF
Free Agent - Carmelo Anthony Por - SF,PF

[Flagrant Fowl]

And what about my team having multiple same round picks?

3rd Round - Donovan Mitchell Uta - PG,SG
4th Round - Chris Paul Pho - PG
2nd Round - Andre Drummond Cle - PF,C
4th Round - Danilo Gallinari OKC - SF,PF
4th Round - DeMar DeRozan SA - SG,SF
5th Round - Mike Conley Uta - PG
6th Round - Kelly Oubre Jr. OKC - SF,PF
3rd Round - Blake Griffin Det - PF,C
7th Round - Montrezl Harrell LAC - PF,C
5th Round - Kevin Love Cle - PF,C
7th Round - Terry Rozier Cha - PG,SG
8th Round - Lou Williams LAC - PG,SG
Free Agent - Dennis Schroder OKC - PG
Free Agent - Tim Hardaway Jr. Dal - SG,SF
Free Agent - Carmelo Anthony Por - SF,PF

I asked people for their input and only one person responded, so we'll go with his choice which I also agree with.

Selecting two keepers from the same round will require using a draft pick from two rounds earlier than the original draft position.

Example: Keeping Chris Paul and DeMar DeRozan will require using a 2nd round and 3rd round pick in the 2020 draft.

[Flagrant Fowl]

I'm willing to help anyone out with this stuff. It's not complicated for me, but I understand that some of you don't have experience participating in a keeper league.

I don't have a problem explaining a rule or procedure several times because I don't want someone to complain about a perceived disadvantage due to not understanding the rules.

We took a league vote on this stuff before the last season. If you voted against a keeper league, then I don't know what to tell you. I don't want you to quit, but you should also understand that this requires more engagement than a standard redraft league. I'm trying to fulfill my role as commissioner to make things run as smoothly as possible, so I ask, please don't be an ass. It's not helping anyone.

[Superbone]

OK, please explain how we pick our draft position. I don't understand that in any way, shape, or form. We can't all pick first. Why would anybody choose to pick later in the round?

[Split T]

OK, please explain how we pick our draft position. I don't understand that in any way, shape, or form. We can't all pick first. Why would anybody choose to pick later in the round?

I believe we are picking in order of finish. I finished first so I got to decide my position first. I took the last pick of round 1(which was used on Trae Young) so I’ll have the first pick of round 2. Now whoever finished 2nd can decide their draft slot.

[Superbone]

OK, please explain how we pick our draft position. I don't understand that in any way, shape, or form. We can't all pick first. Why would anybody choose to pick later in the round?

I believe we are picking in order of finish. I finished first so I got to decide my position first. I took the last pick of round 1(which was used on Trae Young) so I’ll have the first pick of round 2. Now whoever finished 2nd can decide their draft slot.

So, why is there any decision on our part? Don't you go down the list in order and take the best pick available?

[Flagrant Fowl]

OK, please explain how we pick our draft position. I don't understand that in any way, shape, or form. We can't all pick first. Why would anybody choose to pick later in the round?

I believe we are picking in order of finish. I finished first so I got to decide my position first. I took the last pick of round 1(which was used on Trae Young) so I’ll have the first pick of round 2. Now whoever finished 2nd can decide their draft slot.

Exactly.

Sorry for making a joke about your draft position a few days back, ShelC. I mistakenly thought that you understood the draft position selection process more clearly. You will not technically be selecting a position since you finished in last place. You will just be "selecting" the last available position.

But as SplitT explained, you won't have the 12th draft position because he's already claimed it. My guess is that you'll likely end up with something in the middle of the round.

I'll provide an example of how to strategize for this, but I'm afraid I'm just going to make it worse.

---

I'm going to use ShelC's team as an example.

Let's say he is trying to decide which of these two players he should keep. I've added their 2020 draft round after the player name.

Luka Doncic (1st round), Ben Simmons (2nd round), RJ Barrett (7th round)

Option 1: Luka (R1) and Simmons (R2)
This option will require ShelC to use his first two 2020 draft picks on keeper players. This means his first "new player" will be selected in the third round, so his goal should be to get the highest possible draft position in the third round. Therefore, he should select the highest 1st round draft position available to him because round 1 and round 3 (and all odd numbered rounds) have the same order in a snake draft.

Option 2: Luka (R1) and RJ (R7)
This option will require ShelC to use his 2020 first round draft pick on Luka and his seventh round pick on RJ. This means his first "new player" will be selected in the second round, so his goal should be to get the highest possible draft position in the second round. Therefore, he should select the lowest 1st round draft position available to him because picking later in the first round is followed by an earlier pick in the second round.

Option 3: Simmons (R2) and RJ (R7)
This option will require ShelC to use his 2020 second round draft pick on Simmons and his seventh round pick on RJ. This means that his first "new player" will be in the first round, so his goal should be to get the highest possible draft position in the first round. Therefore, he should simply select the highest 1st round draft position available to him.

Now for the sake of this example, let's say that ShelC didn't finish in last place. Let's say he finished 4th in 2019. This would mean that he would be fourth in line to chose his draft position.

He should try to get the highest draft position possible if he chose the keepers form Option 1 or Option 3 because it would allow him to draft a "new player" sooner. With Option 1, that player would come in the third round, and with Option 3, that player would come in the first round.

He should try to get the lowest draft position possible if he chose the keepers from Option 2 because it would allow him to draft a "new player" sooner, in the second round.

---

I hope it this helps everyone understand how the keepers you select can affect your ideal draft position.

[Flagrant Fowl]

OK, please explain how we pick our draft position. I don't understand that in any way, shape, or form. We can't all pick first. Why would anybody choose to pick later in the round?

I believe we are picking in order of finish. I finished first so I got to decide my position first. I took the last pick of round 1(which was used on Trae Young) so I’ll have the first pick of round 2. Now whoever finished 2nd can decide their draft slot.

So, why is there any decision on our part? Don't you go down the list in order and take the best pick available?

Yes, but "the best pick available" isn't completely obvious because of how keeper players are drafted. It might benefit you to have a lower first round pick, like SplitT. Or it might benefit you more to have a higher first round pick, as it would in a typical fantasy draft. This is determined by the round in which your keeper players are selected.

Edit: I thought about this more and I think I see your point. The best overall pick for them should be obvious, but giving each manager authority over their position made sense to me.