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AmareIsGod
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Solar

Post by AmareIsGod »

Anyone here have solar in the Phoenix area (or elsewhere). My wife and I are planning to stay in our home for at least 10 years, probably longer. I have received 2 quotes, one for a 9.07 kW system and the other around 10.5 kW. From January 2019 to January 2020, APS shows 14,890 kWh. The smaller size system was quoted with Sunpower 410 watt panels and that company totaled about $36,000 before federal and state credits which would bring it down to about 26,000. The other quote was for an LG NeOn 2 system at 390 watts each. Not only was it larger production overall but it was about $28,000 before tax credits (19,000 or so after). Our house has a shingle roof (1979), 1850 sq ft single story slump block. The roof was recently completely redone 5 or so years ago, before we purchased the home in October 2018. The rear roof faces entirely southwest with no shade so it is an ideal home for solar production.

Both systems use newer EnPhase microinverters and both have 25 year warranties on all parts and labor, etc.

We'd be financing so I'll need to find the ideal terms with the lowest interest rate. I've got just above 800 credit and we'd be, ideally, paying down the system aggressively once I finish paying off our truck in a couple of years.

Any things to look out for, regrets, gotchas or advice? Would you do it again? Looking for all the input and info I can get. Thanks .net.
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Nodack
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Re: Solar

Post by Nodack »

I have been interested in Solar. I had a friend who leased his and liked it. I don’t think they will allow you to generate more power than you need for whatever reason. I heard it matters what your power company is. SRP and APS are on different fences with solar. Does your HOA allow it?

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Indy
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Re: Solar

Post by Indy »

I knew someone that installed it for a living, and I have a little bit of knowledge from him. The key bit was if you roof is over 10 years old, you need to replace that the same time you do solar because it will costs twice as much to replace/repair it once solar is up. You have to pay to take it down, then they fix your roof, then you have to pay to put the solar back up.

My neighbor has a Tesla system installed. He raves about it all the time and is trying to get everyone in the neighborhood to do it too. The one thing that struck me is that he said although they said it would be a 10-12 year payback, once it was installed and up and running, it is more like a 19-24 year payback. He doesn't care because he plans to be there forever, but it gave me a big pause.

he also said that even though he got the most panels he could put on his roof, and got a battery system to help with load management, and got a variable speed pool pump, and variable speed air conditioners, he doesn't generate more power than he needs. So he is always taking some power from SRP.

So I guess my biggest piece of advice is make sure you plan to stay in your house for 15-20 years, replace your roof first, and then get it in writing if they are claiming a specific power output (in Kilowatt-hours). Also plan for a lot of other costs you are thinking of.

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AmareIsGod
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Re: Solar

Post by AmareIsGod »

Definitely important to take in the potential need and cost to repair your roof prior.

I'm not entirely sure on the whole return on investment. I was running the numbers myself the best way I possibly could. Knowing I'd be paying this off well before the terms of any financing, if you factor in an average electric bill in my case of $200 per month x 8 years, that gets you to $19,200. At that point forward, you have "free" power, assuming you put in a system that accounts for your consumption + 10 to 15%. The system I'm looking at, from a size and production perspective, also accounts for us getting an EV in the next year or two and charging that. You factor in an EV and that average monthly electric bill goes up $30, on average, prior to solar. An average electric bill of $230 x 8 years = $22,080. None of this even accounts for the fact that electricity continues to go up.

I do know that it is more favorable to have APS + solar as SRP has some shoddy plans for solar customers that really kill them during the summer with excess load and needing more energy during peak hours.

This particular 2nd quote has a 25 year warranty and guarantees that at 25 years, the system still is producing 91.5% output with degradation over all of those years.

I'm still learning more. I've kind of decided to steer clear of Tesla after hearing a ton of horror stories with support and maintenance, if and when needed, being painful, along with the fact that many people that order through Tesla wait with multiple disruptions for their system to get installed. That may not be as big of a problem in a larger solar market like Phoenix. I do know they tend to break even on most jobs by being as inexpensive as they are which tends to lead to the jobs going to the lowest bidder to do the work.

Appreciate the input Indy. John from Black Platinum Solar, the company that came in with the larger solar system and nearly $10k less, will be meeting with my wife and I on Wednesday. I'll fill you all in on the details. If you have any questions for me before, I'll make sure they get asked and I'll also forward on anything I've learned.
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Indy
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Re: Solar

Post by Indy »

I would want to know what is actually in the contract for what they promise on daily kWh output (in year 1 and year 25). I would be worried if they don't put that in the contract.

Let me know how it goes. We are debating it too, with our average bill in the summer over $500 and 5300kWh.
Last edited by Indy on Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Nodack
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Re: Solar

Post by Nodack »

I have thought about going solar but, I think they are just starting to refine it some. I think solar should be just part of the house and not some add on contraption on top of the roof. I believe they are starting to make solar roof tiles. It looks like a tile roof but, it’s a solar roof. The home builders should just make the houses super energy efficient with solar tile roofs. You have your solar roof powering everything and charging your Tesla/Other battery. You mostly use the battery after dark making your house almost completely self sufficient off the grid. Maybe 3- 4 smaller wind turbines about 4 feet in diameter each on your roof and you can get some power after dark too. I have been enamored with decorative wind mills lately. I have about four in my back fence. They could be powering my house too...

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Nodack
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Re: Solar

Post by Nodack »





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Nodack
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Re: Solar

Post by Nodack »

It sounds like Tesla is all over this. They are up to version three and have trimmed costs and sped up installation times. Musk is a lot like Jobs was. They were both kind of assholes but, they sure were visionaries.

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Indy
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Re: Solar

Post by Indy »

I don't think Musk has brought a single revolutionary product to market. He makes them look sexy and jacks up the price to get a certain clientele, but nothing has been new/innovative.

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In2ition
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Re: Solar

Post by In2ition »

How sturdy enough are they to step on, or will hold up against hail and extreme wind?
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AmareIsGod
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Re: Solar

Post by AmareIsGod »

I'm a bit worried about the relatively new-ness of the solar roof technology along with the amount of production they might be able to create. You're looking at, for an 11 kW solar roof from Tesla, $52,000 or so before any state or federal rebates. And that's for someone like me with a $200 average electric bill and an 1800 sq/ft single story home. I do wonder as well about the durability. When we need to replace our AC in 10-15 years, I'm not sure how happy I'd be with the AC repair folks walking around on solar panels. They definitely look great though.

https://www.tesla.com/solarroof/design

The Powerwalls don't do a lot of good. You're typically draining everything they can bank within several hours in the evening during the summer. For a 11 kW system, Tesla recommends 3 Powerbanks. That's an extra $17k. If you factor in how often you have an outage, you could use the money you save by not getting Powerbanks to pay for a nice hotel stay tenfold the number of times you may experience a prolonged power outage. The majority of installs of the Powerbanks as well aren't tied into a separate breaker system which is needed to be used properly as a backup in case you do have an outage so you're stuck with batteries that provide some power when the sun goes down and deplete before sunrise unless you get multiple Powerwalls. A single Powerwall has 13.5 kWh of usable capacity. The average US household uses 29 kWh a day. That is a US average and doesn't accurately reflect a Phoenix home during the summer. If you have a proper electrician tie it into a separate breaker panel so it works properly as a backup, your $17k goes up even more. I also worry about cycles and about how well those will store electricity after 10+ years of banking and discharging.

If you have net metering, why even consider a battery? Let the grid serve the same function. They will be buying back anything in excess you produce early on the year which will offset your heavier summer usage with those net credits.
Last edited by AmareIsGod on Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nodack
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Re: Solar

Post by Nodack »

Musk didn’t invent electric cars. He does own 79% of the electric car market that is exploding. Apple didn’t invent the cell phone. They sure did sell a lot of them though because they were user friendly. Musk didn’t invent solar power. I have a feeling he will have 79% of the solar roof market before too long because his product makes sense. Bolting solar panels to your roof is not what they will be doing in the near future imo. I guess everything is always evolving and you jump on board at some point. I haven’t been willing to jump on the solar roof band wagon yet. It’s getting closer.

In that last video they went through all those details you mentioned and more inf. Musk wanted them to be warranted for life. I think they have a 25 year warranty it said I think and they are 35k. How much to replace a roof? How much to add solar? A solar tile roof is both in the same product. They are glass I think. It mentioned something about hail. They acted like they were better than regular tile roofs.

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Superbone
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Re: Solar

Post by Superbone »

My electric bills just weren't that high until this last year when I was home all day. Plus, I'm not in my forever home so I won't be investing in solar here. But will definitely be interested in the future.
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Nodack
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Re: Solar

Post by Nodack »

With the Tesla solar tiles it sounds lime the best choice is for someone who needs a new roof and wants to go solar.

Everything You Need To Know About Version 3 Of The Tesla Solar Roof
Tesla launched the new version 3 of its Solarglass Roof on a public conference call today. Version 3 of the newly renamed Solarglass Roof integrates a number of meaningful improvements to the now larger tiles that promise to improve the cost of the roof while delivering a much faster installation time.
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/09/11/ev ... oof-tiles/


Is The Tesla Solar Roof V3 Any Good?
https://www.yorkshireroofing.com/blog/i ... -any-good/

Durability and Warranty
Talking about durability, Tesla made sure their product will stand the tests of time and nature. The company claims that its solar shingles are three times more durable than standard roofing tiles and are engineered for all-weather durability. Its specifications say that it has a Class 3 Hail Rating (up to 1.75” diameter hail), Class F Wind Rating (Category 3 Hurricane), and a Class A Fire Rating (best fire rating), which is pretty impressive.

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AmareIsGod
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Re: Solar

Post by AmareIsGod »

Nodack wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:47 pm
With the Tesla solar tiles it sounds lime the best choice is for someone who needs a new roof and wants to go solar.

Everything You Need To Know About Version 3 Of The Tesla Solar Roof
Tesla launched the new version 3 of its Solarglass Roof on a public conference call today. Version 3 of the newly renamed Solarglass Roof integrates a number of meaningful improvements to the now larger tiles that promise to improve the cost of the roof while delivering a much faster installation time.
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/09/11/ev ... oof-tiles/


Is The Tesla Solar Roof V3 Any Good?
https://www.yorkshireroofing.com/blog/i ... -any-good/

Durability and Warranty
Talking about durability, Tesla made sure their product will stand the tests of time and nature. The company claims that its solar shingles are three times more durable than standard roofing tiles and are engineered for all-weather durability. Its specifications say that it has a Class 3 Hail Rating (up to 1.75” diameter hail), Class F Wind Rating (Category 3 Hurricane), and a Class A Fire Rating (best fire rating), which is pretty impressive.
Good point re: needing a new roof plus wanting to go solar. I think ours is about 5 years old so I'm not too keen on throwing away 10-15 years of roof that I have left.
What is smallball? I play basketball. I'm not a regular big man. I can switch from the center to the guards. The game is evolving. You got dudes like Joel Embiid, Anthony Davis, all these 7-footers, doing everything. There's no stopping us. - Ayton

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Indy
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Re: Solar

Post by Indy »

AmareIsGod wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:28 pm
I'm a bit worried about the relatively new-ness of the solar roof technology along with the amount of production they might be able to create.
this is the part that worries me the most. Buying something that has a 25 year warranty, but there isn't real-world evidence in mass numbers to support that type of life-span. I guess the hope is that the company makes enough money to stay in business that long and stands behind what they bought and installed on your roof.

I am leaning towards getting a smaller solar system for my pool when my pool pump dies. They make variable speed, DC pool pumps. So that seems like the perfect combo to try it out without too much of an investment.

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Indy
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Re: Solar

Post by Indy »

Nodack wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:38 pm
Musk didn’t invent electric cars. He does own 79% of the electric car market that is exploding. Apple didn’t invent the cell phone. They sure did sell a lot of them though because they were user friendly. Musk didn’t invent solar power. I have a feeling he will have 79% of the solar roof market before too long because his product makes sense.
Fair, but he (and his company) don't know how to make cars very well. I know multiple people that worked directly for him at Tesla, and you would be very surprised at how bad they are at building cars when compared to any other major brand.

As for Apple, it isn't the cell phone that they invented. But they did invent the modern-day smartphone. Sure you can say windows phones and blackberry were first to market. But the smartphones before the iPhone were *phones* that people added smart features to. The iPhone was the first viable *handheld computer* that added a calling features.

Anyway, my bet is that once major car makers break their dependence on big oil companies, they will leave Tesla in the dust for the global EV market. They will still be around, but it will be like a Nissan (barely cracks top 10).

But I am glad that someone took their billions and put it into a car company not tied to oil. That will end up helping everyone.

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Nodack
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Re: Solar

Post by Nodack »

All of the car makers are going electric. It’s a done deal. I don’t own a Tesla but a lot pf people do and they like them. I think Tesla made a lot of car companies take notice to either get on board or get left behind.

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Nodack
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Re: Solar

Post by Nodack »

Some of those articles can get outdated. I just saw this review of Tesla roofs from January of this year. They say a 30 year warranty.

https://unboundsolar.com/blog/tesla-solar-roof-review

Let’s get The Big One out of the way: for the Solar Roof to be financially viable, it needs to replace your existing roof. And even then, building a traditional roof with a dedicated solar array is a more efficient investment.

When Consumer Reports ran the numbers on the cost to install a Solar Roof, they estimated a typical installation might set you back $73,500 for a 3,000-square-foot roof.

Compare that to our discrete solar modules. A package for the same sized home might run one-third to one-quarter of that cost to install on your rooftop, depending on the energy output.

Even if you paid for a brand-new roof and then built a solar array on top of it, you’d come out spending much less. EnergySage estimated a 33% price premium on the Solar Roof compared to building a traditional asphalt roof + solar array.

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In2ition
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Re: Solar

Post by In2ition »

I thought this was interesting, and would share. It will take a bit, but eventually you will see how it fits in the solar section.
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