Fallout from the negative "Free Agency" thread drama

[Charlie Smithy!]

All I know is that I'm glad you've left the cesspool that is spurstalk behind, xylus!

[Xylus]

All I know is that I'm glad you've left the cesspool that is spurstalk behind, xylus!

Much appreciated.

Let's just say I'm really pleased to be here.

[Phoenix219]

I didn't read the whole argument, but I'm getting the impression that there's something of a double standard if SM is banned while Carey doesn't get so much as a formal reprimand.

Quoted for truth.

By the way, welcome back cap. I know its not "new" but its the first chance i've gotten.

[Bruiser]

I take issue with people defenestrating themselves from this forum because they don't agree with a single decision made by the administrator. This is an issue I can see being resolved fairly quickly, rather than a lifetime ban. Swingman's access to the Suns' forum has been revoked, but he still has the opportunity here to speak his mind about the punishment. I'm sure Mori and the rest of the staff will continue to review what steps to take with carey, whether that means some sort of punishment, a stern talking-to, or nothing at all. I don't see the point in this kind of civil disobedience, because it only hurts the whole community and probably won't alter the decision made.

No one's been permanently banned, so make yourself heard! No one is being denied that ability. There are individual conflicts here and there, but the community at large wishes for no one to leave. So say we all.

+1

So we say all.

[Superbone]

This has been my opinion as well. Mods absolutely set the standard and precedent.

Either we all should retain personal individuality and freedom of expression, or we should all attempt to remain civil and engage in polite debates at all times, and therefore all be held to the same standard. Anything less is hypocritical, *especially* coming from the mods.

I wasn't arguing that point. I totally agree but it should be the latter (bolded).

I have no problems with either one, as long as its consistant, and I just don't see the consistancy at this moment in time.

Yeah, you're right. It shouldn't be an "or" at all. We should be able to show our individuality and freedom of expression while remaining civil and respectful to each other.

[Phoenix219]

Should, but not must. They aren't mutually exclusive. A *mandate* for the latter, puts a clamp on the former. Usually we naturally end up at a middle ground, or know when things are "just jokes", and can find that respectful middle ground automatically. This is where Swing's version of his own golden rule comes into play - if one person ups the ante and changes the respectful vibe, then they shoudln't expect other parties to stay civil and just take it; either there is a right to respond, with no repercussions, or everyone should be forced to bite their tongue, otherwise face mutually comparable consequences. In a perfect world, we would all be able to remain civil all the time, but thats obviously not the case. Going back.... who was the first person to break civility in this particular instance? That is all...

i honestly have to stop posting for a bit, shower, get groceries and head to the shop. I'll be around all night in one form or another though. Thanks for the discussion.

[Superbone]

Should, but not must. They aren't mutually exclusive. A *mandate* for the latter, puts a clamp on the former. Usually we naturally end up at a middle ground, or know when things are "just jokes", and can find that respectful middle ground automatically. This is where Swing's version of his own golden rule comes into play - if one person ups the ante and changes the respectful vibe, then they shoudln't expect other parties to stay civil and just take it; either there is a right to respond, with no repercussions, or everyone should be forced to bite their tongue, otherwise face mutually comparable consequences. In a perfect world, we would all be able to remain civil all the time, but thats obviously not the case.

We will have to agree to disagree then.

[Cap]

Why is SM's name in pink?

[Ring_Wanted]

Excused me the rest of you for the previous display, but as I said to P219, I'm no one to put my other cheek or take the higher road for hypocrits and cowards, letting them get away with this kind of shit.

I'm out.

Que mas da si te dijo que no sabes leer ingles. Pse. Sabemos que lo dominas perfectamente. En el lenguaje escrito siempre se pierde algo por el camino, y si hay dos idiomas ni te cuento. Amigo, creo que vale la pena hacer las paces (aunque el nunca vaya a ser tu amigo) y seguir cada uno a lo suyo hablando de los Suns. Ademas, me gustan tus posts.

[Phoenix219]

Why is SM's name in pink?

Because he has been banned from posting in the Suns forum indefinitely. He can post in this thread, and in the General section. Thats what i'm arguing about.

[DrSublime]

ya'll a bunch of drama queens

lets just seriously take this down a notch and focus on whats important and why we are all here, The Friggen Phoenix Suns.
Lets not let the "internet" and talking from a behind a keyboard get the best of us here, this second coming of phxsuns.net is still a newborn, lets not taint it w/ out garbage.

[Mori Chu]

Thanks to all for sharing their thoughts in this thread.

Regarding Swingy -- we all love him and we also know that he's prone to an outburst every couple of years -- and we'll all still love him afterwards. Might I suggest that the suspension be temporary?

About SwingMan: I love Swing. He is a bit prickly at times; and honestly, he seems more so lately than he may have been in the past. I don't know why that would be, but I hope he is doing well. But, know this: The guy bleeds purple and orange, he's a true lifer Suns fan, and he does contribute valuable content to the site. He has a lot of hoops knowledge and insight. 99.9% of the time he is a delight to have around, and I definitely want him here on this site. I consider him a personal friend, and we talk on Facebook, too. Been talking to the guy since the '90s on the old azcentral and phxsuns.net. I want to do whatever I can to make it possible for him to be here along with everybody else and have everyone get along. I don't consider it a good solution to run anybody off.

I don't know if I made it clear enough in my original message, but I do not intend for Swing to be banned permanently. I consider it a temporary ban and will revisit the issue later this offseason after heads have cooled off. It is my hope that he will return and remain a valued member of our community. I want Swing posting in our Game Day thread on opening night this fall.

If you don't like him or don't like his posts, put him on your Ignore list. That isn't a 100% solution, but I think it goes a long way toward silencing a voice you don't want to hear. That goes for anybody who has a problem with anybody else. These kinds of things are issues we can work around.

I didn't read the whole argument, but I'm getting the impression that there's something of a double standard if SM is banned while Carey doesn't get so much as a formal reprimand.

Regarding carey: I have re-read the thread multiple times. Carey did make 1-2 posts that disappointed me; he rudely said that Aztec Sunsfan "can't f***ing read" because of a misinterpretation of one of carey's posts. Aztec understandably took this as an attack on his English skills, as a Spanish-speaking non-native English speaker, though I don't think carey meant it in that way. In response to carey's rebuke of Aztec, several others piled on carey, and then carey got defensive, and the whole thing escalated.

I have already sent carey a message talking about how I think mods are expected to carry themselves a certain way, to be held to a certain standard of conduct. But I do not feel that carey's messages deserve some sort of reaction on my part such as a ban or removal of mod status. Carey was a bit too defensive for my taste, and he used some colorful language. But I think the escalation and generally nasty nature of the thread was neither caused nor perpetuated by carey. I felt that the appropriate action was for me to contact him privately and discuss it with him. If you re-read the thread and honestly believe that the messages written by SwingMan and carey are collectively equally inappropriate, rude, and offensive, then I just plain disagree with you. And I believe that the majority (though not 100%) of the mods agree with me on that.


To Aztec Sunsfan: It's clear that you are upset about what was said. I think your English is great, and I don't think the original intent of carey's message was to rip you for being a non-native speaker. I can understand how it would feel that way. Misunderstandings on the internet are easy to make, and they are quick to escalate. I apologize that you were treated that way, especially by one of the site mods. I hope carey will reach out to you and apologize as well, though I can't force him to do that. You may be upset that I am not formally punishing carey, but I honestly feel that what he wrote about you was not directed at your English skills as a Spanish native speaker; he was just criticizing you for not understanding his post and chose his words poorly. If carey or any other mod is repeatedly rude to another poster, I will of course take action about it.

Please stick around on the site. You provide a unique perspective and a different point of view than many of the other posters. I would be very sad to see you go. If you are upset with carey, I hope you will put him on your Ignore list and still stay to chat with the rest of us.

---

Conclusion: In the morning I will move this thread to the General area, where anyone is free to discuss it further. I'm not trying to stifle conversation about this topic, I just want to move it off the front page so that we can focus on basketball in the Suns/NBA area. Thanks again to all for sharing their opinions.

[iLLmatic]

^ Thanks for doing what you do Mori and for starting this site. It's great that we can all come together to talk Suns basketball again, even if we can't get along with each other some of the time.

[Phoenix219]

"Choose his words poorly" ... great way to justify the double standard. Even if Aztec was a native English speaker, there is no way that statement can be taken inoffensively. Swing's language was just as colorful and actually contained less profanities. After Aztek explained himself, carey still carried on "he still can't fucking read" in private messages.

I am proud to not be one of those 100%, and I am proud to speak my mind.

No disrespect meant towards Mori in any way. Hopefully this off season moves *very* quickly.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

I will be short on this one,

Mori, I would usually agree with your take, as the internet is a perfect place to hit and run to hide behind a keyboard. But that's why I do not post on mega sites as RealGM, ESPN or AzCentral. I like the boutique size and relatively "neighborhood" esence of the .net

You can read that I even play around with my reading skills on my response to Carey's first shot. But he did't take the second or third shot by "accident" neither he showed the minimal remorse on the PM to Swingman. Even I agree that PM are private, that should not warrant the anomacy to keep insulting people. And that "full of shit that your eyes are brown" sentence, I don't know how you are letting a MODERATOR get away whit that.

Mr. Carey is hiding behind the section of the argument that favors him and AGAIN, IS THE ONLY ONE, missing some sort of apology on any of his actions in this thing. I do not need an apology from him, those only work with honesty within.

How can you see his behavior as just a heated moment, when it is not his first time doing it, is beyond me. Sorry, that is the meaning of double standard.

[BigLewy]

I'll chime in quickly just to give my two cents. I've been around for a decade now (can't believe it's been so long!), but I haven't posted nearly as often as I used to because my free time has decreased significantly now that I'm getting married next week and am a homeowner with grown up responsibilities now. Anyways, while I don't post much anymore, I still lurk and read the site daily. I come here to read intelligent discussions among knowledgeable Suns fans, not to read pages and pages of personal attacks. I've had disagreements in the past with posters, but can't recall ever cursing someone out or continuing to escalate the disagreement. If you are really that angry with a person, keep it to PMs. I personally don't want to see pages and pages of verbal spats. If I did, I'd go be a regular on RealGM. At the end of the day, this is just a message board. Disagreements will happen, that's human nature. While most of you seem like awesome people who I'd love to share a beer with, the fact is that actually meeting up is slim to none. So to be honest, if someone did curse me out and call me names, I probably wouldn't even care because to me, it's just someone online who is angry and it won't impact my daily life at all. I'm not going to go sit and pout on the couch because I was called a stupid asshole by someone on an internet forum. People have bad days and can lash out at someone, it happens to everyone. I'm not going to name names on this issue because I honestly don't even care who is right or wrong on this. I think that everyone just needs to end it and get back to what this site was all about-an intellectual discussion about the Suns.

I love the site, I enjoy reading the posts, and I will continue to chime in where I choose to offer my perspective. If you really have THAT much of a problem with a poster, just put them on ignore. Can't we all just get along?

[Aztec Sunsfan]

I agree with all of those calling out the incident and in general when some disagrement goes endless for page after page, and worst, when is not basketball related.

P219 did a good job ending this last outburst, you can even read Swingman agreeing to call it ended. But the later post from Carey, his PM, and above all, Swingman's suspension, to my eyes at least, make this issue bigger than the usual spat. It has become an issue about right or wrong, and double standars on posters accountabilty and freedom of speech. Maybe it sounds as too much for nothing, but everyone is entitled to dimension it as they see it.

I share the opinion about this being a basketball board and nothing else, but I think anyone entering this particular thread, should be called surprised on it's content, and therefore I keep this issue going on exclusively on this thread. I will stay out of the way on anything else, as I said, and I apreciate does reaching out to me on the matter, but this is not a tantrum, is solidarity for a injustice.

[Phoeknicks]

[Cap]

I agree with all of those calling out the incident and in general when some disagrement goes endless for page after page, and worst, when is not basketball related.

If there are going to be flame wars, I'd actually prefer they not be basketball related. That removes the temptation to read them.

[LazarusLong]

I miss Dan H. with his Richard Simmons picture and balloons (although somewhat un PC). Cap and Mori will know what I'm talking about ...