Israel / Palestine

[Mori Chu]

Sounds like Israel's treating the Palestinians just great!

[Nodack]

UN Halves Its Estimate of Women and Children Killed in Gaza
https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/05/11 ... d-in-gaza/
The United Nations Office for Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) revised its child fatality figure from the Gaza war sharply downward, reporting more than 14,500 deaths on May 6 but then 7,797 on May 8. OCHA also revised downward its figure for women fatalities from more than 9,500 deaths to 4,959 deaths. The Jerusalem Post first reported the changes on May 11.

The UN attributed its original, higher figures to the Hamas-controlled Government Media Office (GMO) in Gaza, whose figures OCHA has cited continually for the past two months. The UN gave no source for the lower figures in its May 8 update, but the figures precisely match those in a May 2 report from a different Hamas-controlled organization, the Gaza Ministry of Health.

In early April, the Gaza Ministry of Health admitted it had “incomplete data” to document more than 10,000 of the deaths it had previously reported. Subsequently, the ministry indicated that it did not have names for more than 10,000 of the individuals it claimed to be deceased. As of April 1, the ministry also stopped repeating the claim it made since the first weeks of the war that 70 percent of the dead were women and children, even suggesting the media invented this number. Meanwhile, the GMO continues to promote the 70 percent figure while revising its own numbers upwards, to remain consistent with that claim.

[AmareIsGod]

UN Halves Its Estimate of Women and Children Killed in Gaza
https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/05/11 ... d-in-gaza/
The United Nations Office for Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) revised its child fatality figure from the Gaza war sharply downward, reporting more than 14,500 deaths on May 6 but then 7,797 on May 8. OCHA also revised downward its figure for women fatalities from more than 9,500 deaths to 4,959 deaths. The Jerusalem Post first reported the changes on May 11.

The UN attributed its original, higher figures to the Hamas-controlled Government Media Office (GMO) in Gaza, whose figures OCHA has cited continually for the past two months. The UN gave no source for the lower figures in its May 8 update, but the figures precisely match those in a May 2 report from a different Hamas-controlled organization, the Gaza Ministry of Health.

In early April, the Gaza Ministry of Health admitted it had “incomplete data” to document more than 10,000 of the deaths it had previously reported. Subsequently, the ministry indicated that it did not have names for more than 10,000 of the individuals it claimed to be deceased. As of April 1, the ministry also stopped repeating the claim it made since the first weeks of the war that 70 percent of the dead were women and children, even suggesting the media invented this number. Meanwhile, the GMO continues to promote the 70 percent figure while revising its own numbers upwards, to remain consistent with that claim.

Well then, people shouldn't be bent out of shape. It's only half!

[Mori Chu]

Israel's government / military only cruelly murdered half as many children as we thought! They're awesome!

[Nodack]

Not saying it’s good. Just saying they weren’t honest about their figures. The fog of war. Both sides get to make up their figures.

[Mori Chu]

Saying that both sides "make up" figures is a convenient way to dismiss tens of thousands of dead Palestinians.

[Nodack]

Hamas making up their figures helps establish their credibility or lack of it. Israel making up their figures helps establish their credibility or lack of it.. They have both failed the credibility test. That doesn’t mean I am for death and destruction.

[Mori Chu]

Update on Harvard's protest:

[Mori Chu]

I guess that bit about holding back on arms sales to Israel if they attack Rafah was a "just kidding" sort of thing.

[Nodack]

I saw the Douglas guy on Bill Maher. He is a reporter for the Post I think. He has been imbedded in Gaza for the past couple of months and gave his assessment of things on the show. He speaks from the pro Israeli side of things. I could only find parts of that online and came across this episode of Piers Morgan. They bring in the pro Israeli reporter Douglas and a pro Palestinian guy Cenk to debate. As expected it gets pretty heated and they both show a clear dislike for each other throughout shown in their constant insults. They both make their points, which were similar to the ones made here. Both sides accuse each other of genocide. Both sides think the other side has no empathy for their people.

The pro Israeli guy seems to think Israel has to finish the job and take out Hamas or it was a total waste of time. Hamas will launch another attack in two years right on schedule forever. The pro Palestinian guy says he hates Hamas and wants them gone too. His answer was I think to just announce a two state solution and that the Palestinian Authority was in charge. Hamas will just disappear I guess.

I think our conclusions are correct. This conflict will continue for eternity, however long that is.

After that I was kind of proud of how well we have managed to have the same conversations here without all the animosity that other people are showing.

[Mori Chu]

If the conflict is going to go on "forever," what good does it do to bomb and kill tens of thousands of innocent Palestinian civilians? I thought the goal there was to "finish the job" and "eliminate Hamas." If that can't be done, as you say, why kill so many innocent people?

[Nodack]

The pro Israeli guy wants them to finish the job or he says it will go on forever. In fact he says every two years Hamas will attack. We know this is true. The pro Palestinian guy wants the war to end now and isn’t sold that Hamas would ever attack again. We all know Israel will be attacked again and they will respond again.

What do I believe? I don’t think killing every Hamas fighter in Gaza will end the violence. Until the two sides (Israel/Arabs) come together and decide to stop the madness it will continue forever. The two sides will never come together. This goes on forever imo.

[Nodack]

US military says Gaza Strip pier project is completed, aid to soon flow as Israel-Hamas war rages on
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/1 ... e-00158318
WASHINGTON (AP) — The U.S. military finished installing a floating pier for the Gaza Strip on Thursday, with officials poised to begin ferrying badly needed humanitarian aid into the enclave besieged over seven months of intense fighting in the Israel-Hamas war.

The boatloads of aid will be deposited at a port facility built by the Israelis just southwest of Gaza City and then distributed by aid groups.

Already, the site has been targeted by mortar fire during its construction and Hamas has threatened to target any foreign forces who “occupy” the Gaza Strip.

“Trucks carrying humanitarian assistance are expected to begin moving ashore in the coming days,” the command said. “The United Nations will receive the aid and coordinate its distribution into Gaza.”

The World Food Program will be the U.N. program handling the aid, officials said.

Israeli forces will be in charge of security on the shore, but there are also two U.S. Navy warships near the area in the eastern Mediterranean Sea, the USS Arleigh Burke and the USS Paul Ignatius. Both ships are destroyers equipped with a wide range of weapons and capabilities to protect American troops off shore and allies on the beach.

Israeli military spokesman Lt. Col. Nadav Shoshani confirmed that the pier had been attached and that Israeli engineering units had flattened ground around the area and surfaced roads for trucks.

“We have been working for months on full cooperation with (the U.S. military) on this project, facilitating it, supporting it in any way possible,” Shoshani said. “It’s a top priority in our operation.”

[Nodack]

US confirms first aid trucks arrive via Gaza pier
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz96d3dn9jro

[Mori Chu]

It's so dumb that they have to build a $300m pier to deliver aid because Israel just bombs and destroys any trucks that try to drive through directly. How ridiculous is that? We have to build piers to get around the behavior of our *ally*.

[Nodack]

That is pretty ridiculous that Israel blocked aid getting in that way. The article talks about Israel and the US working together to make this pier happen. Trying to wrap my head around that.

[Nodack]

What We Know About Where Aid Can Enter Gaza
A look at the humanitarian assistance getting into the Gaza Strip by land, air and sea.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/10/worl ... ssing.html

[Nodack]

I have been trying to catch up on the situation in Gaza and have been reading a lot of articles. I was under the impression no aid was getting through aside from US air drops and the new pier that just opened. There has been some aid trucks getting through, although not enough but, aid trucks have been allowed through a few crossings. I think as Israel has pushed North, the South has opened up more. Those crossings have been slow at times or even closed from time to time depending on the situation. The Rafah crossing was recently closed after 4 Israeli soldiers were killed there. The pier construction was temporarily halted earlier after Hamas mortar attack.

I was watching Bill Maher and the pro Israel British reporter who was imbedded in Gaza explained that Israel has pushed Hamas back into their last stronghold where he seems to think all the leadership of Hamas resides. Israel has been gearing up and threatening to enter Rafah for awhile while they negotiate a truce. The truce talks failed. Hamas killed four IDF soldiers. Slain Israeli hostages started showing up. Israel announced to residents of Rafah they need to leave now signaling the imminent start of the of attack on Rafah. Tanks started moving in on the outskirts. That’s when Hamas decided they wanted to accept the truce. Palestinians celebrated. Then Israel says that peace truce deal wasn’t the deal they agreed to and that the truce deal proposed is just a ruse. Israel has decided to finish the job and go into Rafah.


https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/5/6 ... %20prisons.
In Rafah, where Israeli tanks thrust into some of the eastern suburbs and clashed with Palestinian fighters there, residents said Israeli bombing from the air and ground persisted all night.
Rafah had been sheltering more than one million displaced Gazans. UNRWA, the main U.N. aid agency for Palestinians, said on Saturday that nearly 800,000 Palestinians have fled Rafah since Israel launched its ground operation there on May 6.
Israel says it must capture Rafah to destroy Hamas and ensure the country's security.

It sounds like Rafah is the final piece in the war according to Israel. Don’t hate me for reporting these things.

[Mori Chu]

This is not okay.

[Cap]

This is not okay.

Law and order!

By which we mean, police officers breaking the law and creating chaos. When cops do that, it’s law and order.