Treasurer DeWit calls out Ducey for awful plan

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Ladmo
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Treasurer DeWit calls out Ducey for awful plan

Post by Ladmo »

http://kjzz.org/content/166093/state-tr ... land-trust
Current and former state treasurers are opposing the governor’s proposal to use money from the state’s land trust account to increase funding to K-12 education. Governor Doug Ducey’s plan would have given the schools $1.8 billion between 2017 and 2022.

The permanent land trust account currently pays $80 million to schools each year.

Former State Treasurer Dean Martin is concerned about paying out that much trust money in a short period of time.

“It’s not our money. We can’t just come in and grab it like the rainy day fund to fill this year’s budget hole,” he said. “It’s designed as a trust so that we can’t raid it.”
The bottom line?
This eliminates BADLY required State revenue, FOREVER, for a short-term fix... that fixes nothing. And it does it at a time when taxes are set to expire, clearing MORE badly needed revenue from the books.

Thoughts? Concerns?
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Re: Treasurer DeWit calls out Ducey for awful plan

Post by Ladmo »

I work in the Capitol and I have friends on the opposite side of the aisle, and I have asked, what is the endgame here? The answer is FUCKING FRIGHTENING!

I am told that the end of revenue is part of the plan.
The Governor thinks he can eliminate State taxes, period.
They want to cripple State Government.
Sound crazy? Well, it is.

How does he plan to fund schools, first responders, Government Agencies, Consumer Protection?
He doesn't.

The whole plan is based on the BELIEF that, even though Arizona has one of the lowest business taxes in the Nation, somehow this plan will draw more businesses to create jobs in Arizona. To what end if they do not create revenue, I don't have the slightest.

The Governor trusts that the "private sector" will foot the bill. His plan is, even though big business hides their money in off-shore accounts and takes advantage of tax credits and loopholes, they will be more than happy to join the "private sector," along with the church, to pay for education.

80% of the State budget goes toward education, and about 18% of the budget goes towards running the Government. He is operating under the guise that if he can cut as much of that 18% down he can balance the budget and pay off the debts he is legally obligated to pay back the Educational system.

But what if the Government doesn't have the money to do it? What then?

The Extreme Right, moreover, the Tea Party, is pulling the strings on Ducey.
Their stated goal is to, "Shrink Government to the size they can drown it in a bathtub."

I have seen so many Lobyist's and Tea Party folks appointed to positions at the Capitol, it's really kind of freaky. Every single member of Ducey's staff is a former lobyist. Tea Party members have been appointed to Executive positions in every single State Agency I have seen. I have witnessed such seriously, completely, out-of-control spending, the like I have never seen in State Government. I really believe they are trying to sabotage the Government. I have GREAT concerns.

Mark my word; There WILL be audits in the future, and this WILL be exposed.
And if not, we're all fucked...
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Re: Treasurer DeWit calls out Ducey for awful plan

Post by OE32 »

I read today a passage that went something like, "Black progressives are more serious about Hillary than are white progressives, because if a Republican got elected (that is, if Sanders were nominated), white people wouldn't be much affected." Sounds about right to me, if my case is typical.

If my state wants to eliminate my income tax, that just means a lower portion of my pay will be used to pay for services in this state (since the government would spend on services in this state, whereas any increase in my pay will go towards savings/investment). If government everywhere spends less, more of my money will flow towards savings rather than investment, because less spending = less investment = more savings. Over time, this pattern would decrease growth and increase inequality and eventually threaten my job too.

But all of that is too far along the path of analysis for Republicans. The Republicans practice un-thought when it comes to economics. Their crusade of eliminating government spending is not for some other end - it is, to them, an end itself. Their justifications for eliminating spending seem impervious to debunking; they sprout anew like weeds.

Good luck changing minds, Lad. The best way to change someone's mind is to ask them to explain their position, but I find it hard getting Republicans to explain their position on these things (it almost always seems to turn to jokes and punchlines before the analysis gets very far along). I think most of them understand they're wrong on this (and other) points, they're just past the point where they care. At this point, it seems like it's all about judgment and punishment (and laughs!).

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Re: Treasurer DeWit calls out Ducey for awful plan

Post by Ladmo »

I'd vote for Bernie Sanders whether he was running for either party, and that's a big difference between me and the Republicans I know.

I often joke with them about how they treat their party like their favorite sports team, and they agree. Actually, it's more like a cult. I wonder sometimes if the party has incriminating pictures on them.

Do you know that when I asked every Republican I know about Bernie Sanders, none of them even knew who he was? One guy said, "Don't care, he's not a Republican."

I urged people to just take a look at Bernie's platform. I tried to convince them supporting him would be bad for Hilary Clinton. Nothing gets through. But that's the least of my worries right now. The fact that Republicans will vote Republican no matter what the case is, and that they will never even consider an alternative for any reason does nothing for the current situation we are already in.

I am seeing so many disturbing things occurring under Ducey that I cannot stay silent any longer. I would lose my job if anyone knew I was exposing things such as, the fact that Consumer Protections agencies are being eroded.

The Governor wants to outsource several Agencies, under the false representation that it is being done to save money. But what is really happening is these are being given to friend's of Ducey, and in the end will create redundancies that are going to cost the State money, while Ducey's pals reap the benefit.

To give a vague example, the State will still have to pay the same rent for the buildings currently being used, but instead of paying the workers who are already there, who are already making a paltry salary, we the taxpayer will be paying the contracting companies and the contractor employee's for the same work. It's going to cost more than twice what it costs now. I know people who are quitting their jobs because they don't want to be linked to this.

While I can't prove this, I'm pretty sure Ducey's team are going to be rewarded once they are out of office by the companies he intends to do business with. Some will be thrown under the bus to take the blame for these things, and I think this is partially the motivation for DeWit.

There are those on both sides of the spectrum who believe that this controversy between the Treasurer and Ducey is all staged, to give Ducey an out from paying for Education. I believe something far more sinister is at work.

All I know is what I know. There's a lot that is really still such a big mystery to me. All I can say is nothing makes sense anymore. At least with the previous Administration, I knew what was going on. While they were micro-managers, egomaniacs, and lawyer-ed up to unbelievable degrees, this new Administration seems like they are intent on profiting off the system, and really doesn't seem to give a damn if anybody notices it.

I wonder if they realize that their day is done. It could be true that they know the Latino population is going to be so great by the next election cycle, that they are doing everything in their power to sap every penny they can out of the State while they still have the opportunity. And in that event, leave a charred husk of a Government left for the Democrats to be forced to repair, not unlike the Bush Administration.
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Re: Treasurer DeWit calls out Ducey for awful plan

Post by Ladmo »

Here's something interesting I overheard today, and I guess this seems like the appropriate place to post it.

Apparently Ducey is planning to put all State Employees on a 4-10 schedule and shut down Government offices one day a week. This idea was explored during the last Administration, and was abandoned when studies concluded it would not save money, and might in fact cost the State more.

If you start hearing about this in the upcoming months, you heard it here first. ;)
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Re: Treasurer DeWit calls out Ducey for awful plan

Post by Nodack »

How the hell did you land a job in politics Ladmo?

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Re: Treasurer DeWit calls out Ducey for awful plan

Post by Ladmo »

The question is how the hell am I going to remain in politics...
The Tea party is succeeding in their goal of "downsizing" Government.
I've seen a lot of good people, too many, losing their jobs, and I'm really worried I'm next.

It's okay, I have opportunities, but I like what I do now, I really, really do. I wish I could explain more, but I really could get myself into trouble. You sign a waiver that you're not going to say the kind of things I have been saying when you start. But if you know me, and I know you think you do, you probably realize I have might have a problem keeping my big fat mouth shut.

I'll say this though, I like protecting the consumer, I like protecting the common worker, I like protecting the businessman too, when they're all legit. I do good work that I am proud of, and I want to continue to do so. They (current Government) are making it really hard, though.

I'll tell you something though, if I can last just 5 more years at this, I plan to begin my own business. I have a couple really good ideas. I have made some really, REALLY wise investments. If the Government gig doesn't work out, that's okay, because like I said, I have other options. But the last "X amount" of years have been extremely satisfying and educational, and I wouldn't have spent them any other way. I'm in a really good place right now, but if everything pans out as planned, I'm going to be in a much better place in the future.
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Re: Treasurer DeWit calls out Ducey for awful plan

Post by Indy »

But the last "X amount" of years have been extremely satisfying and educational, and I wouldn't have spent them any other way. I'm in a really good place right now, but if everything pans out as planned, I'm going to be in a much better place in the future.
That is awesome to hear Lad. Congrats!

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Re: Treasurer DeWit calls out Ducey for awful plan

Post by Ladmo »

That really does mean a lot to me, thanks Indy!
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Re: Treasurer DeWit calls out Ducey for awful plan

Post by Ladmo »

http://www.yourwestvalley.com/valleyand ... 5f12f.html
Koch-funded think tank endorses Ducey education spending idea

By Howard Fischer, Capitol Media Services

PHOENIX -- The head of a Koch-funded think tank at Arizona State University says it makes more financial sense to spent land trust dollars on current education expenses rather than "hoard'' them for future generations.

In a new report being released today, Scott Beaulier said money will be worth less in the future. What that means, he said, is tapping into the trust -- including the principal -- will have a bigger bang for the buck.

The study by Beaulier, executive director of the Center for the Study of Economic Liberty, strongly backs the proposal by Gov. Doug Ducey to boost education funding by withdrawing a lot more from the $5.1 billion trust fund than current levels.

While some of the competing plans do tap the trust for more than current withdrawals, none do so to the extent sought by Ducey. And some rely on the trust not at all, instead using money the state already has in surplus and its separate "rainy-day'' fund.

But Beaulier, while acknowledging his anti-tax and free-market economic perspectives, said he didn't specifically start out to validate the governor's plan. And he said while the think tank got started with money from a foundation set up by anti-tax billionaire Charles Koch, whose political organizations have previously funded Ducey-backed proposals, that does not affect the research.

The trust fund consists of proceeds from the sale and lease of lands Arizona was given by the federal government when it became a state. Originally 10 million acres, it now stands at about 9.2 million acres.

Using a voter-approved averaging formula, public schools draw 2.5 percent of what's in their share of the trust, currently close to $80 million a year.

Ducey proposes to take that to 10 percent for five years, then 5 percent for the following five, generating perhaps an extra $3 billion over that time period.

The governor is selling the idea based on the idea that even tapping into the principal, the trust, now worth $5.1 billion, would still be worth $5.4 billion at the end of that period.

By contrast, Beaulier said keeping withdrawals at current levels will grow the trust to close to $10 billion by 2026.

But state Treasurer Jeff DeWit said that assumes a growth rate of 6.9 percent, something he said is questionable in a fund where 60 percent of the funds are in stocks. And even if that occurs, DeWit said any growth has to be discounted for inflation which makes future dollars worth less, even as the state has more students it needs to fund.

Beaulier said he sees the issue different.

"The role of the trust is not to squirrel money away, but rather to maximize benefits to its beneficiaries,'' his report says. And Beaulier said it makes more sense to take money for the current crop of students than saving it for those to come.

For example, he said if there is massive inflation, the value of the annual payouts is going to be worth "a heck of a lot less in real terms.''

"If you expect inflation, you should probably be a little bit more biased to the present,'' he said, spending the money now when it's worth more. Still, Beaulier said there are limits to that argument.

"I'm not saying, like, burn the endowment down,'' he said. "But it should tip policy a little more in the direction of paying out more now as opposed to holding it for a future distribution.''

And what of DeWit's concern that taking out more money now robs from future generations?

"I take issue with that,'' Beaulier said.

"Yes, there will be more kids,'' he acknowledged. "And the dollars will be spread across more people.''

But Beaulier said he also believes that our descendents will live better than we do now.

"Any time the permanent fund administrators defer payments to future beneficiaries over current ones, they are taking from a relatively poor generation (i.e., Arizonans living in the present) and rewarding our relatively rich descendents (i.e., future Arizonans),'' he wrote.

And Beaulier said there's another reason to spend now.

"If education in future generations will be more costly, then why not consume more of its today when it is cheaper?'' he writes.

"Some believe education costs will fall thanks to major innovations and technological disruptions,'' Beaulier continues. "But if the recent past is any predictor, rising costs point to spending more now to avoid less money per dollar in the future.''

He also called spending money now "human capital investment,'' ranging from smaller classes to state-of-the-art technology.

Beaulier denied that the bent of his work is affected by the source of his center's funding.

"We're pretty transparent about who support us,'' he said, lead by the $3.5 million gift from the Charles Koch Foundation to set up the think tank. Anyway, he said, once the money comes in "we're basically left to do our thing.''

But this isn't a blank slate.

The center's own statement of purpose said it is "committed to the study of the role economic liberty and the free enterprise system play in increasing opportunity and improving well-being.'' Among his commentaries is one against higher Arizona taxes, saying they "stifle economic growth, kill jobs, and, ultimately, fail to deliver the revenue needed to improve state finances.''

And Beaulier himself, in a blog on economic development, suggested that in choosing what to study, there already is a bias.

"We seldom see studies commissioned by the skeptics,'' he wrote, in that case saying there is "a bias in favor of studies supporting big government spending, high taxes, and crony local investments results.''
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Re: Treasurer DeWit calls out Ducey for awful plan

Post by Ladmo »

Just to keep everyone updated, in case you missed this.
http://azdailysun.com/news/local/ducey- ... ade4e.html

Ducey signs school deal; voters up next

PHOENIX -- Gov. Doug Ducey signed legislation Friday that will give voters the last word on whether to tap state trust proceeds to boost education funds.

The plan is designed to give schools an immediate cash infusion and guarantee annual increases to cushion against inflation. Ducey, who was instrumental in crafting the deal, said it sends a strong message about the value Arizona puts on education.

"To our teachers, we know your worth,'' he said.

"We have immense respect and regard for the work you do for our kids, our schools and our communities,'' the governor continued. "With this plan you will have the resources you've been asking for.''

But David Lewis of the Association of School Business Officials cautioned against thinking the $3.5 billion, decade-long deal solves all of the education issues.

"This is not the answer of all of the funding issues within the state,'' he said.

"This was one very specific issue,'' Lewis explained, dealing with the question of state compliance with a 2000 voter-approved mandate to boost aid to schools annually. "And I think it's very important that we remember that because there are so many other things we'll hear about, there's so many other areas that need to be addressed.''

Arizona Education Association President Andrew Morrill, whose organization also had sued the state in 2010, acknowledged it's less than what schools asked for and even less than a trial judge said they are entitled to get. But he agreed that it's a deal worth taking.

And Tim Ogle of the Arizona School Boards Association said accepting this deal made more sense than pursuing the lawsuit.

"Our students and our districts need money now,'' he said. "That was the underlying principle that led us to today.''

Friday's action is not the last word.

The plan is contingent on voter approval of the package at a special election set for May 17. What remains to be seen is whether any of the Democrats who voted against it will urge its rejection.

During Senate floor debate just hours earlier, Democrat lawmakers said some provisions are unacceptable. That includes what they said is an unnecessary "raid'' on the trust fund as the state has money in the bank.

In Senate floor debate just hours before Ducey's signature, Republicans who control both the House and Senate beat back other Democrat proposals, ranging from providing even more dollars for schools to eliminating a provision that, beginning in 2025, would allow lawmakers to actually cut aid to schools.

But the most heated exchanges came over charges by Republicans that Democrats -- and the media -- were painting an unfair picture of the state of education.

Senate President Andy Biggs lashed out at complaints that Arizona has cut more from education than any other state. He said 31 states have cut per-student funding since 2008.

And Biggs said lawmakers have restored some of those dollars.

"It is simply inaccurate to perpetuate the narrative that every year, for the last five years, Arizona has cut spending,'' Biggs said.

Sen. Steve Farley, D-Tucson, conceded that, in actual dollars, education funding has increased. But he said Arizona continues to fall behind.

"We have not increased funding for education at a rate we needed to to keep up with student enrollment and inflation growth,'' he said, with Arizona school enrollment growing at the second fastest rate in the nation.

Farley put Arizona's per-student funding at last in the nation. Biggs responded by citing figures he said puts the state at No. 49.

"I know it's not much,'' he said. "But 49th is not last.''

And Biggs argued there should be less focus on funding and more on what Arizona schools are doing with that money they are getting.

"I understand we have great achievement,'' Farley responded.

"We're doing amazing things with very, very little,'' he continued. "But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be giving them more and see how they excel beyond any other state.''

And Farley said there are implications for being at the bottom.

"If we want to encourage our teachers who are doing brilliant things to stay, we're going to have to pay them what they're worth,'' he said. And Farley said some businesses have refused to relocate here "simply because the education system was not what they wanted it to be.''

Biggs said that's not true.

"Explain that to Apple, explain that to the big businesses that come here,'' he said. And he said that, even with the low funding, Arizona schools outperform many other states.

"This is the positive narrative that should be said in this state,'' Biggs said. And he said if there is a "cloud'' over the state's education system, it's not being put there by Republicans.

"It is by people who wish to have a negative narrative,'' he said.

"I'm not saying everything's roses,'' Biggs continued. "What I am saying is, there's a lot to say good about our state and our state education.''

His complaints about foes of the package continued when the governor allowed him to say a few words at the bill signing ceremony.

"There are those who cannot take a victory with a smile,'' Biggs said, invoking a key character from to Winnie the Pooh.

"There are Eeyors in our state who see nothing but rain falling upon them and a tail stapled to their bottom with a tack,'' he said. "But the reality is, this is a sunny day, a day to be grateful to be in Arizona.

Sen. Don Shooter, R-Yuma, had his own group to blame: the media.

"You're hurting the state when you're negative,'' he said, specifically addressing reporters in the chambers covering the debate. "Try to be helpful.''

Approval of the package leaves Democrats with the question of whether to urge voters to support what they decried as a flawed plan.

House Minority Leader Eric Meyer said he hopes there can be changes to the package before the vote.

"And if there's not, we're kind of in a tough spot,'' he said.

"Our classroom teachers, our students, they need the dollars,'' said Meyer, who was a school board member. "It's going to be hard to say, 'no.' ''

There was one last-minute change in the deal.

The plan is designed to give schools immediate cash. But with the election not until May, it could be impossible for schools to use their first infusion.

Lawmakers agreed to allow schools who cannot use the new funds before this fiscal year ends June 30 to carry them forward into the next school year.

They also agreed, for one time only, to exempt schools from the requirement to prepare and adopt a new budget by May 15 -- two days before they will know if they will be getting more. Instead, budgets can be adopted as late as June 30.
I've been criticized lately for being too critical lately against the GOP, so I'd like to reiterate briefly why I call this plan awful.

Firstly, I am in agreement with our REPUBLICAN State Treasurer that this is a bad plan, so one might be able to assume that this is not a partisan issue.

More importantly, and to the meat of the matter, selling off the Land Trust eliminates $80 million in State Revenue every year the money is not returned to the Trust.

Fortunately, the voters can still decide the fate of this measure.

Unfortunately, this State is dominated by the Republican Party.

If there is a reason why I seem very critical against the GOP in Arizona, it's because the voting block of elderly people and other Republicans always vote along party lines. So maybe that makes me a little more motivated than others to try and make the issues clear.

The vote for this is May 17th.

Voter turn-out for this is sure to be much less in May than were the vote had been scheduled for November, especially as Democratic turn-out is always greater during a Presidential Election than at any other time, and I often see votes being held at strange times for important issues in this state, and I think that's an important issue to observe too.

It's also important to note that former State Treasurer, now Governor Doug Ducey, had said as Treasurer that there would be a Budget Deficit, which meant that we would have to find some other way to pay for Education, such as the State Land Trust.

But guess what? There's a Budget Surplus, not a Deficit, so as confirmed in this article, there is "money in the bank" to pay for education. So that should probably factor in your decision when it comes time to vote in May.
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Re: Treasurer DeWit calls out Ducey for awful plan

Post by Indy »

've been criticized lately for being too critical lately against the GOP, so I'd like to reiterate briefly why I call this plan awful.
No, you haven't. At least, not here. I know it is hard when you get criticism to see/hear what is actually being said, but nobody complained about how critical you are about the GOP.

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Re: Treasurer DeWit calls out Ducey for awful plan

Post by Ladmo »

I kinda' have been Indy. I've been criticized for posting too much, I've been criticized for my "phrasing," I've been labelled an extremist, the whole, "all you say is Republicans suck, lol" thing, and I've been accused of ruining everything in the Politics forum. Kind of hard not to take all that criticism personally, and I don't see where that's germane to the discussion.

I took a look at the rules and I don't see where I have broken them, "Any reasonable opinion is welcome, but due to the sensitive nature of the topic area, please be nice and respectful to others. No flaming or trolling, please."

I've been respectful to others, I haven't trolled anyone, though I feel like in another thread somebody did go out of their way to troll me repeatedly with their personal opinions about me, when I'd much rather this person stick to the topic and have this person leave me alone.

Maybe it's a coincidence that this person once said that it was their personal goal to have me banned here, his suggestion that I should take these discussions to another site, and their apparent insistence to continue instigating a flame-war with me, I don't know, maybe it's not connected. But maybe it is.

It's not like I'm forcing anyone to read these threads, nor am I forcing anyone to respond to them. As long as I'm not breaking the rules, why are the thread discussions degenerating into constant criticisms against me rather than the topic at hand? Every time anyone does this, I try to deal with the situation with humor, and I really try hard to steer the conversation back to the topic.

The fact of the matter is, I enjoy talking about this stuff, and I am aware most people don't. I am aware that most people don't enjoy reading about this stuff as much as I do, and there are probably things most people don't read and aren't aware of. I enjoy talking about this on lots of different websites, I thought I'd try bringing it back here. I'm just trying to have a good time, I'm just trying to keep things on topic.

Bottom line, I'm not criticizing anyone for their opinions or any other reason, I just wish people would have a good time with me and do the same.
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Re: Treasurer DeWit calls out Ducey for awful plan

Post by Indy »

It's not like I'm forcing anyone to read these threads, nor am I forcing anyone to respond to them.
You have plenty of welcomed opinions, and I would love to read them. But nearly everything you post is either a meme or a copy of something someone else said, with an over-the-top, biased title.

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Re: Treasurer DeWit calls out Ducey for awful plan

Post by Ladmo »

I'm frankly disgusted with this continued attack against me personally.
I will no longer respond to your messages unless it is regarding the topic of the story.

It is the HEIGHT of arrogance and insensitivity that you will never realize that there is no good to come from this.

Good Night.
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