Political discussion here. Any reasonable opinion is welcome, but due to the sensitive nature of the topic area, please be nice and respectful to others. No flaming or trolling, please. And please keep political commentary out of the other board areas and confine it to this area. Thanks!
I don’t think you get a choice. I didn’t like attacking Iraq. But WE did. That to me is like saying the debt is huge but, I’m not responsible for any of it and refuse to pay taxes because I didn’t do it.
I am not the US government/military. I did nothing of the sort. It’s not a collective WE.
I couldn’t possibly disagree with you anymore than I do.
So as an American I can blame you for Trump trying to overthrow the election? I can blame you if Trump gets re-elected and starts world war 3?
I think that’s insane. The American people elect the leaders but they can’t control what the leaders do.
The 9/11 terrorist attack was a response to American politics for decades…so it’s yours and my fault that happened?
I’m trying to be dramatic because I really don’t understand your point and I am trying to.
I am saying if we get into a war with Russia, China or whomever that they won’t give a rats ass if you tell them you don’t support our government or military or care who you voted for. They will consider you an American and put you in the same category as every other American.
Blame me for Trump? You can’t blame me. I didn’t vote for him. People from other countries can blame me because I am an American and America voted for him. Same with our other leaders. See the difference? WE the people. All of us. All of us are Americans whether you consider yourself part of America or not.
9/11 was a response to American politics. We are Americans. The terrorists didn’t target politicians or the military. They targeted Americans. Our President and our leaders represent US. WE as in America elected them. It seems super basic to me. I can’t believe you don’t get it.
Well I do understand what you are saying more. Yes I agree that other countries probably won’t care and will attack American citizens if they are at war with us…but that doesn’t mean it’s ok. I’m sorry but I’m going to be against any act of war that kills civilians.
I also think you are misinterpreting our support for innocent Palestinian civilians as support for Hamas. It’s not just two sides here. I think what Hamas did to Israel is clearly the worst of the war crimes committed. That doesn’t justify Israel also committing war crimes…even if they are lesser.
How is cutting off food, water, fuel, and an escape path out and then bombing the land ok? They are willing to kill 2 million Palestinians to wipe out the 50,000(or whatever the actual number is)that are Hamas?
Said 36857855 times in the last 70+ years over the same conflict. It never stops. The Arab world will never stop trying to wipe Israel off the map and Israel will never stop retaliating.
I love All In. I watch him all the time. He makes the point that the war doesn’t need to happen. It’s a great gesture. War sucks. A lot of innocent people die. As far as the answer on how to solve how Israel gets Iran/Hamas/Palestinians/half the Arab world to stop trying to kill them he admits he has no answer. Nobody seems to so we get an endless cycle of violence.
I think the only answer I can come up with is that the Palestinian people need to decide if they want a future. This marriage they have with Hamas only brings pain and suffering to their people. Hating Israel so much that you would rather your family die than accept Israel is crazy to me. I know they blame Israel and not Hamas for the Hamas attack but, they have to know that the Hamas raid is the reason Israel is bombing them. They need to publicly divorce Hamas and say they are willing to live side by side with the Israeli’s without trying to kill them all. If they accept that I think it would worth it for Israel to give back the land they took after the previous multiples attacks on them over the past many decades as a gesture of good will. I can’t see Israel doing that part and I doubt Israel would trust the Palestinians word enough to risk giving the land back. Israel just killed several thousand Palestinians. Now they will want revenge.
Endless cycle of violence that will never ever end.
I debated posting in this thread again. The carnage in Gaza is hard to watch. Thousands of Palestinian civilians getting killed. I have had a few heated discussions with friends over this topic and it is stressing out the entire planet. This X video of a Hamas representative being interviewed on TV today is disheartening. Hamas will never stop until Israel is gone and they don’t care how many people die on their side as a result of the fighting.
Hamas Official Ghazi Hamad: We Will Repeat the October 7 Attack Time and Again Until Israel Is Annihilated; We Are Victims - Everything We Do Is Justified #Hamas #Gaza #Palestinians
Israel is a country that has no place on our lands. We must remove that country. Will we have to pay a price? Yes, but we are willing to pay it. We are called a nation of martyrs. We are all proud to sacrifice martyrs.
We know Israel isn’t just going to leave and we know Hamas will never stop attacking them while Israel exists. So I guess we all know that this conflict will outlive all of us no matter how many people die as martyrs. There doesn’t appear to be a solution that both sides will ever agree to.
They are talking about UN peacekeepers stepping in to keep the peace. I am not sure what that will accomplish long term and could put the UN force in danger since it would be another occupying force in Gaza, but I welcome it now to stop the immediate carnage and give both sides time think about their next moves. I am pretty sure what Hamas’s next move is. More attacks. The Hamas leader seems to say that the Palestinians are proud to be martyrs in this fight. I am not so sure they all share his view. Speaking of the UN. The UN created Israel on Palestinian lands and started this conflict and now the UN might come in and be peacekeepers in the conflict they basically created.
I learned a long time ago not to stress over things I have no control over and it has served me well. I obviously have no control over this situation and yet it stresses me out a lot because the US is involved and the entire planet is getting stressed over this. A major war is quite possible and the US seems like it would be divided as to who to support in this country leading to violence. I see dark times ahead on multiple fronts.
Those statements by the Hamas official are basically a horrific version of “the end justifies the means.” But Israel’s actions also seem to be a form of “the end justifies the means.”
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.
Nodack, I agree with you 100% that the Hamas video you posted is abhorrent. I completely condemn Hamas and support no part of what they say or do. I hope you also understand that listening to the Israeli government nonchalantly talking about bombing and killing Palestinian civilians triggers the same type of reaction in me. Both sides have leaders who seem to have no hesitation about killing the other side, including innocent civilians. Both are evil and wrong.
I was watched t MSNBC just now and they were talking about a few solutions put on the table by someone and one of them was reintroducing the Two State plan again into the discussion with a militarized section to keep the peace. Hamas would be eliminated from the equation first. They were hoping there would be a silver lining in all this. I’ll try to locate any info on this.
Edit: Them talking about killing innocents reminds me of WWII. It’s a war and in a war participant’s put a premium on the lives of their people above the lives of the enemy’s people. We figured we would lose hundreds of thousands of Americans conquering the island of Japan so we dropped two A bombs killing hundreds of thousands of their people and none of ours and they surrendered. It’s different when it’s your people on the line.
I read the article. They basically say Israel retaliating against attacks only makes more terrorists in the long run. They say Israel should selectively attack terrorists and turn the Palestinians against Hamas. That to me sounds great on paper but not feasible. We could win WWII if we get the civilian population to turn against Hitler. And if we get the civilian population to turn against Putin that would hurt his war effort. And while we are at it get the civilian population to turn against NK’s leader. It all sounds like wishful thinking to me.
The Palestinian people will have to figure out that Hamas is not helping their cause and turn against them. The Hamas rep on the video made it clear that they will never give up the fight until Israel is wiped from the map and that the people are willing martyrs. You would think your people being martyrs for 70+ years would get old. I see the pain on the faces of the Palestinians in Gaza. They are under the thumb of Hamas. Hamas controls every aspect of their lives. Separating the two is a daunting challenge.
We see a few ways out of this quagmire. Do the Palestinians see a way out? Are they ok with the status quo? Permanent war with Israel is just a recipe for more pain and suffering for all. Hamas will talk as if they represent the will of the Palestinian people and Hamas will dictate to the Palestinians what their will is until they rise up and say enough of this. I don’t have any faith that they will see the light. Hamas owns them and Hamas wants the Palestinian people to be willing martyrs and human shields to their assaults on Israel.
It’s like watching Groundhog Day. I have seen this movie dozens of times. It always ends the same.
I think a tide is turning and many Dem politicians and leaders are becoming willing to express that what Israel is currently doing to the Palestinian civilians is Not Okay.
Whatever Biden does on Israel, he will be praised by some and crucified by others.
There has been some tension between the US and Israel, especially with Democrats over the past couple of decades. Trump junior Netanyahu was staging a power play in Israel before the last Hamas attack causing a huge rift with many people in Israel and the US. They all had a Kumbaya moment right after the Hamas attack. Now not as much.
