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In2ition wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 8:28 am

Those damn Conservative judges again.

What happened to Conservatives being for states rights?

Here is what 5 of the Conservative justices wrote in their ruling today:

“Nothing in the Constitution delegates to the States any power to enforce Section 3 against federal officeholders and candidates.”

What happened to the 10th Amendment?

“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 9:50 am

So a state can’t prevent a Constitutionally ineligible candidate from being on their ballot, but they can prevent a Constitutionally eligible candidate (such as RFK, Jr.) from being on their ballot (by having signature requirements that are only realistic for the major parties to achieve)?

How is that just or democratic?

The signature requirements aren't that high. If you can't get this many signatures, you have no chance to win, so who cares?

https://ballotpedia.org/Ballot_access_f ... candidates

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 10:33 am

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 9:50 am

So a state can’t prevent a Constitutionally ineligible candidate from being on their ballot, but they can prevent a Constitutionally eligible candidate (such as RFK, Jr.) from being on their ballot (by having signature requirements that are only realistic for the major parties to achieve)?

How is that just or democratic?

The signature requirements aren't that high. If you can't get this many signatures, you have no chance to win, so who cares?

https://ballotpedia.org/Ballot_access_f ... candidates

You try gathering 219,403 non-contestable signatures in California, using only volunteers. Realistically, it takes many millions of dollars just to get on all 51 ballots. Plus, it costs a lot of money even to organize a volunteer force and to fight all of the lawsuits/complaints that the two major parties bring to try to disqualify your signatures or keep you off the ballot by any means possible.

But if you can’t win, who cares? I do, for one.

The issue is not whether or not the candidate can win. The issue is democracy—giving people choices to vote amongst, and perhaps being able to break through the two-party system (really one-party system) even if it’s a little at a time.

Another question for you would be, where is the line? When does it become unconstitutional? Could California require that you get 5 million signatures? 10 million?

I’m not an RFK fan but I agree. It shouldn’t be so hard to get on the ballot and I am against the two party mindset. Yes none of the third party candidates will win in 2024, but it’s the mindset that people refuse to vote for them because of that fact that will keep them from ever being viable. I am voting 3rd party this year. If more people would be willing to not vote for the two main candidates, maybe we’d actually start to get more viable candidates as more people would have a chance.

I’m not sure I worded that well, but in short: two-party system sucks. Let’s get more realistic candidates on the ballot each election.

Yeah? Well, we are stuck with the two party system for now. Any vote not for Biden or Trump is a thrown away vote. It's basically abstaining. That's just the facts.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 2:33 pm

Yeah? Well, we are stuck with the two party system for now. Any vote not for Biden or Trump is a thrown away vote. It's basically abstaining. That's just the facts.

Ya I kind of addressed that. It will always remain a throw away vote with that mentality. A third party vote now shows a lack of enthusiasm in the two major party nominations. If more people would be willing to do it, maybe something changes in the future. I know tons of people who say the same thing…they don’t like Biden or Trump but are voting for one of them because no 3rd party has a chance. Show the parties their candidates suck by not voting for them.

Also your vote is just one vote…it’s meaningless by itself, sorry to break it to you but your vote for Biden is also a throw away. 1 vote isn’t swinging the election.

219k signatures in CA is a lot, but CA does have 39.24 million people. Many states are much lower, e.g. 7500 in Georgia, 5000 in Ohio, etc.

As for the two-party system, the real problem is the lack of ranked-choice voting. Get that on the ballot in enough states, and 3rd+ party candidates will thrive.

Yes ranked choice voting would be great

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 4:06 pm

219k signatures in CA is a lot, but CA does have 39.24 million people. Many states are much lower, e.g. 7500 in Georgia, 5000 in Ohio, etc.

As for the two-party system, the real problem is the lack of ranked-choice voting. Get that on the ballot in enough states, and 3rd+ party candidates will thrive.

Yes, there are some reasonable states on the list (275 in Tennessee, 800 in New Jersey), but that doesn’t change the fact that states are allowed to have onerous requirements. And like I asked, where is the limit of Constitutionality?

I agree with having some form of ranked choice voting.

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 3:14 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 2:33 pm

Yeah? Well, we are stuck with the two party system for now. Any vote not for Biden or Trump is a thrown away vote. It's basically abstaining. That's just the facts.

Ya I kind of addressed that. It will always remain a throw away vote with that mentality. A third party vote now shows a lack of enthusiasm in the two major party nominations. If more people would be willing to do it, maybe something changes in the future. I know tons of people who say the same thing…they don’t like Biden or Trump but are voting for one of them because no 3rd party has a chance. Show the parties their candidates suck by not voting for them.

Also your vote is just one vote…it’s meaningless by itself, sorry to break it to you but your vote for Biden is also a throw away. 1 vote isn’t swinging the election.

You are saying nobody's vote counts. That is patently wrong.

I’m saying any single vote doesn’t matter. Who you vote for won’t change the election. Every vote counts, but no single vote matters in determining who wins.

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 10:16 pm

I’m saying any single vote doesn’t matter. Who you vote for won’t change the election. Every vote counts, but no single vote matters in determining who wins.

OK. But that’s not how it works. We add them all together. And then you have the complication of the electoral college which I and many others would like to see done away with. But I do like the idea of the ranking system.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 11:20 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 10:16 pm

I’m saying any single vote doesn’t matter. Who you vote for won’t change the election. Every vote counts, but no single vote matters in determining who wins.

OK. But that’s not how it works. We add them all together. And then you have the complication of the electoral college which I and many others would like to see done away with. But I do like the idea of the ranking system.

Well I’m just responding to you saying my vote won’t count if it’s not for Biden or Trump. It will count, but it won’t help determine the winner. My point is while yes my vote has 0% impact on the winner…yours will have .00000001% impact. Essentially neither vote matters. It matters more to me to not give a crappy candidate my vote than to have that ever so slight impact on the election.

And that is where we are today. I wonder how many votes a “None of the above” candidate would get if that option was on the ballot.

Split T wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 05, 2024 6:21 am

Superbone wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 11:20 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 10:16 pm

I’m saying any single vote doesn’t matter. Who you vote for won’t change the election. Every vote counts, but no single vote matters in determining who wins.

OK. But that’s not how it works. We add them all together. And then you have the complication of the electoral college which I and many others would like to see done away with. But I do like the idea of the ranking system.

Well I’m just responding to you saying my vote won’t count if it’s not for Biden or Trump. It will count, but it won’t help determine the winner. My point is while yes my vote has 0% impact on the winner…yours will have .00000001% impact. Essentially neither vote matters. It matters more to me to not give a crappy candidate my vote than to have that ever so slight impact on the election.

Fair enough. Mine will actually count a little more after moving from California to Arizona. At least it will be in a swing state. And hey, I like to swing!

Haha…yes that’s true in Arizona

I can tell a Presidential election is coming by how many Fuck Joe Biden flags are flying on PU trucks driving around the Valley.

Nodack wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:29 am

I can tell a Presidential election is coming by how many Fuck Joe Biden flags are flying on PU trucks driving around the Valley.

I’m not looking forward to that. I absolutely hate Trump but I don’t go around with flags and bumper stickers about it. These are assholes and labeling themselves as such.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:45 am

Nodack wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:29 am

I can tell a Presidential election is coming by how many Fuck Joe Biden flags are flying on PU trucks driving around the Valley.

I’m not looking forward to that. I absolutely hate Trump but I don’t go around with flags and bumper stickers about it. These are assholes and labeling themselves as such.

It's the weirdest shit, nobody was doing this before the great pumpkin.

TOO wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 06, 2024 2:29 am

Superbone wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:45 am

Nodack wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:29 am

I can tell a Presidential election is coming by how many Fuck Joe Biden flags are flying on PU trucks driving around the Valley.

I’m not looking forward to that. I absolutely hate Trump but I don’t go around with flags and bumper stickers about it. These are assholes and labeling themselves as such.

It's the weirdest shit, nobody was doing this before the great pumpkin.

Nothing more signifies white trash to me than that.