Re: Biden Administration misc. activities
Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:42 am
It was absolutely cancelled, just as promised during the campaign. None of this varies from what was communicated over the last 12 months.
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Right, got to do our part to make this happen. I'm all for making it better for the planet, but it's lots of sacrifice for families first. This is where I have a problem with it. This directly affects the families first. Buffet is going to increase his wallet while we have to transfer transportation of oil to trains on his lines. When is China going to start doing their part? Aren't they the worst offender right now for pollution?
I am not fine ruining an entire community (not to mention the earth) for this pipe line. Go look at what happens with these pipe lines. One major leak and the soil is polluted for generations, and the company's consequence might be a fine totaling a month of profits.
I don't agree with your assessment. We've never seen an oil tanker leak or oil rig on the ocean leak? Have we never had a train derailment? You think this is more likely that the pipeline leaks?Indy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:00 pmI am not fine ruining an entire community (not to mention the earth) for this pipe line. Go look at what happens with these pipe lines. One major leak and the soil is polluted for generations, and the company's consequence might be a fine totaling a month of profits.
We shouldn't be giving private companies access to federal (or state) lands for their shareholder's gain.
We've never seen an ocean leak? Seriously?...In2ition wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:09 pmI don't agree with your assessment. We've never seen an oil tanker leak or oil rig on the ocean leak? Have we never had a train derailment? You think this is more likely that the pipeline leaks?Indy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:00 pmI am not fine ruining an entire community (not to mention the earth) for this pipe line. Go look at what happens with these pipe lines. One major leak and the soil is polluted for generations, and the company's consequence might be a fine totaling a month of profits.
We shouldn't be giving private companies access to federal (or state) lands for their shareholder's gain.
All agree that the long-term effects of the spill are still being determined. For example, a 2013 study showed that dolphins and other marine life were dying at six times the normal rate in the area affected by the spill.
“There is no account of how much marine life was lost or will be lost,” Quigg said. “The ability to produce offspring or new growth is part of this loss, but we still do not have a good way to assess what this will be for the gulf.”
All of the experts agree that another such spill is a virtual certainty. One reason: more than 2,000 deep-sea wells have been drilled in the gulf in the last 25 years.
Since China isn't doing enough, why should we? That's a terrible mentality. Maybe it's time we sacrifice for the future generations. Something needs to change and the sooner we can eliminate our dependency on fossil fuels and figure out effective ways to capture carbon, the sooner we can have hope for our children and grandchildren, along with the earth itself, to prosper and sustain life for the future.In2ition wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:59 amRight, got to do our part to make this happen. I'm all for making it better for the planet, but it's lots of sacrifice for families first. This is where I have a problem with it. This directly affects the families first. Buffet is going to increase his wallet while we have to transfer transportation of oil to trains on his lines. When is China going to start doing their part? Aren't they the worst offender right now for pollution?
No, In2 is saying Oil Tankers leak, and train cars, so why are we willing to trade off the chance of a tanker leaking versus a pipe leaking. I understand the overall philosophy, I just disagree that we should be building pipelines through communities.AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:35 pmWe've never seen an ocean leak? Seriously?...In2ition wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:09 pmI don't agree with your assessment. We've never seen an oil tanker leak or oil rig on the ocean leak? Have we never had a train derailment? You think this is more likely that the pipeline leaks?Indy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:00 pmI am not fine ruining an entire community (not to mention the earth) for this pipe line. Go look at what happens with these pipe lines. One major leak and the soil is polluted for generations, and the company's consequence might be a fine totaling a month of profits.
We shouldn't be giving private companies access to federal (or state) lands for their shareholder's gain.
A Decade After BP Oil Spill, Texas A&M Experts Say It Could Happen Again
Oceanography professors say the Deepwater Horizon spill in 2010 changed the Gulf of Mexico in ways we are still trying to understand.
https://today.tamu.edu/2020/04/14/ocean ... understand
All agree that the long-term effects of the spill are still being determined. For example, a 2013 study showed that dolphins and other marine life were dying at six times the normal rate in the area affected by the spill.
“There is no account of how much marine life was lost or will be lost,” Quigg said. “The ability to produce offspring or new growth is part of this loss, but we still do not have a good way to assess what this will be for the gulf.”
All of the experts agree that another such spill is a virtual certainty. One reason: more than 2,000 deep-sea wells have been drilled in the gulf in the last 25 years.
Plus, it just continues to prolong our dependency on fossil fuels.Indy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:48 pmNo, In2 is saying Oil Tankers leak, and train cars, so why are we willing to trade off the chance of a tanker leaking versus a pipe leaking. I understand the overall philosophy, I just disagree that we should be building pipelines through communities.AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:35 pmWe've never seen an ocean leak? Seriously?...In2ition wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:09 pmI don't agree with your assessment. We've never seen an oil tanker leak or oil rig on the ocean leak? Have we never had a train derailment? You think this is more likely that the pipeline leaks?Indy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:00 pmI am not fine ruining an entire community (not to mention the earth) for this pipe line. Go look at what happens with these pipe lines. One major leak and the soil is polluted for generations, and the company's consequence might be a fine totaling a month of profits.
We shouldn't be giving private companies access to federal (or state) lands for their shareholder's gain.
A Decade After BP Oil Spill, Texas A&M Experts Say It Could Happen Again
Oceanography professors say the Deepwater Horizon spill in 2010 changed the Gulf of Mexico in ways we are still trying to understand.
https://today.tamu.edu/2020/04/14/ocean ... understand
All agree that the long-term effects of the spill are still being determined. For example, a 2013 study showed that dolphins and other marine life were dying at six times the normal rate in the area affected by the spill.
“There is no account of how much marine life was lost or will be lost,” Quigg said. “The ability to produce offspring or new growth is part of this loss, but we still do not have a good way to assess what this will be for the gulf.”
All of the experts agree that another such spill is a virtual certainty. One reason: more than 2,000 deep-sea wells have been drilled in the gulf in the last 25 years.
Indy is correct in what I was saying. I don't agree that it prolongs it any longer. All it's doing is shifting the dependency at this time to other vendors and more dangerous means of delivery, while increasing prices, greater chance for ecological damage and laying off American workers from decent paying jobs. If they could quickly and immediately transition into jobs promoting clean energy, that would be a different story. It's not the case though...yet.AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:35 pmPlus, it just continues to prolong our dependency on fossil fuels.Indy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:48 pmNo, In2 is saying Oil Tankers leak, and train cars, so why are we willing to trade off the chance of a tanker leaking versus a pipe leaking. I understand the overall philosophy, I just disagree that we should be building pipelines through communities.AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:35 pmWe've never seen an ocean leak? Seriously?...In2ition wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:09 pmI don't agree with your assessment. We've never seen an oil tanker leak or oil rig on the ocean leak? Have we never had a train derailment? You think this is more likely that the pipeline leaks?Indy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:00 pm
I am not fine ruining an entire community (not to mention the earth) for this pipe line. Go look at what happens with these pipe lines. One major leak and the soil is polluted for generations, and the company's consequence might be a fine totaling a month of profits.
We shouldn't be giving private companies access to federal (or state) lands for their shareholder's gain.
A Decade After BP Oil Spill, Texas A&M Experts Say It Could Happen Again
Oceanography professors say the Deepwater Horizon spill in 2010 changed the Gulf of Mexico in ways we are still trying to understand.
https://today.tamu.edu/2020/04/14/ocean ... understand
All agree that the long-term effects of the spill are still being determined. For example, a 2013 study showed that dolphins and other marine life were dying at six times the normal rate in the area affected by the spill.
“There is no account of how much marine life was lost or will be lost,” Quigg said. “The ability to produce offspring or new growth is part of this loss, but we still do not have a good way to assess what this will be for the gulf.”
All of the experts agree that another such spill is a virtual certainty. One reason: more than 2,000 deep-sea wells have been drilled in the gulf in the last 25 years.
Our tax dollars our given to the fossil fuel companies, and Trump raised tariffs on renewable energy. That cost nearly 60k jobs, while the pipeline only had 50 permanent jobs created.In2ition wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:53 pmIndy is correct in what I was saying. I don't agree that it prolongs it any longer. All it's doing is shifting the dependency at this time to other vendors and more dangerous means of delivery, while increasing prices, greater chance for ecological damage and laying off American workers from decent paying jobs. If they could quickly and immediately transition into jobs promoting clean energy, that would be a different story. It's not the case though...yet.AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:35 pmPlus, it just continues to prolong our dependency on fossil fuels.Indy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:48 pmNo, In2 is saying Oil Tankers leak, and train cars, so why are we willing to trade off the chance of a tanker leaking versus a pipe leaking. I understand the overall philosophy, I just disagree that we should be building pipelines through communities.AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:35 pmWe've never seen an ocean leak? Seriously?...
A Decade After BP Oil Spill, Texas A&M Experts Say It Could Happen Again
Oceanography professors say the Deepwater Horizon spill in 2010 changed the Gulf of Mexico in ways we are still trying to understand.
https://today.tamu.edu/2020/04/14/ocean ... understand
All agree that the long-term effects of the spill are still being determined. For example, a 2013 study showed that dolphins and other marine life were dying at six times the normal rate in the area affected by the spill.
“There is no account of how much marine life was lost or will be lost,” Quigg said. “The ability to produce offspring or new growth is part of this loss, but we still do not have a good way to assess what this will be for the gulf.”
All of the experts agree that another such spill is a virtual certainty. One reason: more than 2,000 deep-sea wells have been drilled in the gulf in the last 25 years.
Yes, once it was finished, the jobs would go away. That's understood. Same as any construction project. Can you explain the 60x jobs lost from the tariffs? I'm not familiar with this.Indy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:43 pmOur tax dollars our given to the fossil fuel companies, and Trump raised tariffs on renewable energy. That cost nearly 60k jobs, while the pipeline only had 50 permanent jobs created.In2ition wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:53 pmIndy is correct in what I was saying. I don't agree that it prolongs it any longer. All it's doing is shifting the dependency at this time to other vendors and more dangerous means of delivery, while increasing prices, greater chance for ecological damage and laying off American workers from decent paying jobs. If they could quickly and immediately transition into jobs promoting clean energy, that would be a different story. It's not the case though...yet.AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 1:35 pmPlus, it just continues to prolong our dependency on fossil fuels.Indy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:48 pmNo, In2 is saying Oil Tankers leak, and train cars, so why are we willing to trade off the chance of a tanker leaking versus a pipe leaking. I understand the overall philosophy, I just disagree that we should be building pipelines through communities.AmareIsGod wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:35 pm
We've never seen an ocean leak? Seriously?...
A Decade After BP Oil Spill, Texas A&M Experts Say It Could Happen Again
Oceanography professors say the Deepwater Horizon spill in 2010 changed the Gulf of Mexico in ways we are still trying to understand.
https://today.tamu.edu/2020/04/14/ocean ... understand
ALSO--In all of the US, there are 3.3M jobs in clean energy. For comparison, there are 46k in coal. A 1.4% increase in the clean energy jobs would employ more people than all of the coal industry. I realize we can't get off oil immediately, but we can for coal.
Come on Indy! Didn't you read the article:
I'm going to miss such eloquence from our prior administration, referring to science and facts as "mumbo jumbo" and "zip-a-dee-doo-dah".Peter Navarro, Trump’s trade and manufacturing advisor, said the report was “classic fake news dressed up in academic mumbo jumbo.”
That wasn't the best article to explain how the jobs are lost, nor how many are left. In fact, it wasn't even all that great for your argument, imo. I'm going to be a little bit skeptical of any study that is driven by Chinese solar companies that are pushing to get rid of the tariffs and overwhelm the market with their solar panels.
This is the US trade association. Why are you thinking they are foreign solar companies driving this study? You think each state is importing labor from China to install these things on your roof?In2ition wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:51 pmThat wasn't the best article to explain how the jobs are lost, nor how many are left. In fact, it wasn't even all that great for your argument, imo. I'm going to be a little bit skeptical of any study that is driven by Chinese solar companies that are pushing to get rid of the tariffs and overwhelm the market with their solar panels.