Phx-Suns.Net

A white male Google developer posted a document on one of the company's internal discussion forums. The document stated several opinions, namely that conservatives/Republicans are ostracized within Google, and that Google is wrong to be doing work to promote diversity in its recruiting and hiring. The article generated a lot of anger and controversy. The most controversial part of the document is where the author claims that women have significant biological differences from men that tend to make them perform worse in tech jobs, such as being more emotional, neurotic, less assertive, et cetera.

Google has fired the author of the document. Some claim that it is a squelching of free speech, while others (including myself) think it would be worse to condone widely distributed discrimination against a protected class of employees.

Article about the release of the document:
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/arti ... -at-google

Full text of the document:
http://gizmodo.com/exclusive-heres-the- ... 1797564320

A retort to the document from a former Google senior engineer:


The Atlantic's take on the manifesto and the larger problems of diversity and inclusion in tech:
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/ ... ul/536052/

Hacker News (widely read tech news site) thread of comments about the manifesto:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14937778

Google fires manifesto author:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... rsity-memo

What do y'all think?

I haven't read the whole thing but I'm always shocked by the number of people that don't actually understand what the first ammendment does.

It only protects you from the government. It does not mean there are no repercussions for your statements. Now, might there be a California law that prohibits him getting fired without good cause? Maybe. But you can't argue first ammendment protection. If google doesn't want a guy representing their company spreading those views it is their right.

He violated Google's Code of Conduct. End of story for those saying he shouldn't have been fired. Nobody is stopping him from continuing to spew his non-sense that only guys and non-africans are tailored to be good Google employees.

EDIT: I realize that the author didn't specifically call-out Africans, but people in Google that responded to him with support did.

Indy is right. Companies like Google work really hard to keep up their image and don't appreciate when some employee brings a bunch of negative attention to the company by spewing hateful rhetoric in a company forum. If you want to talk that stuff do it in a political forum away from work.

I certainly have opinions about politics etc. As a musician playing public places it would be really stupid of me to start into an anti Trump tirade on the mic at a gig. We would get fired and piss off half the crowd. It's a no brainer.

There are places you vent your feelings and places where it's not appropriate. This guy just learned that lesson.

I also find it... I am too uneducated to even find the right word here... but when people can't see the benefit of having others with different experiences around them, I just don't know how to handle it well. Do you not realize how important it is to find people that challenge your world view? In almost every situation you can imagine, it helps. It amazes and saddens and infuriates and confuses me all at the same time.

Indy wrote:I also find it... I am too uneducated to even find the right word here... but when people can't see the benefit of having others with different experiences around them, I just don't know how to handle it well. Do you not realize how important it is to find people that challenge your world view? In almost every situation you can imagine, it helps. It amazes and saddens and infuriates and confuses me all at the same time.

The "A retort to the document from a former Google senior engineer" link I gave above makes that point really well. He argues that engineering benefits in a huge way from having developers, designers, managers, etc. from different backgrounds. There are lots of examples of this, such as:

- a calendar/reminder tool in which they forget to include options related to menstrual cycles, birth control, etc. because no women work on the project
- a music tool that doesn't highlight music enjoyed by black people and other groups, thus losing sales
- face recognition algorithms that don't work properly when shown the dark pigment of black faces, nor the different shape of Asian eyes
- an online dating site that doesn't provide the right options for LGBT users to find the matches they want

Whether you're a bleeding-heart liberal or a dyed-in-the-wool conservative, examples like the above are ways that your company loses money or loses a market. There are a lot of valid business reasons to have a diverse group of people working on your product and giving feedback on it.

Yeah, there are plenty of financial reasons. But more importantly, there are personal reasons how you can't be the best you can be without people in your life from a different place (locale, race, religion, musical taste, sex, height, food tastes, weight, likes, dislikes, education, profession, etc).

Here's something interesting. One of my Facebook messages criticizing this manifesto was screenshotted and posted on 4chan, an alt-right troll web site. They started going after me en masse all of yesterday. Thousands of angry trolls trying to mess with me, dig up personal info, etc. I am still getting a lot of hateful/angry mentions and messages and stuff. I received death threats, and they looked up my home address, my wife's personal info, my parents, etc. The 4chan people also sent mass emails to the entire faculty and staff of Stanford saying I should be "dealt with" or fired. And they submitted low ratings for me on Amazon and RateMyProfessor. But so far nothing else has happened, and I'll be all right.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:Here's something interesting. One of my Facebook messages criticizing this manifesto was screenshotted and posted on 4chan, an alt-right troll web site. They started going after me en masse all of yesterday. Thousands of angry trolls trying to mess with me, dig up personal info, etc. I am still getting a lot of hateful/angry mentions and messages and stuff. I received death threats, and they looked up my home address, my wife's personal info, my parents, etc. The 4chan people also sent mass emails to the entire faculty and staff of Stanford saying I should be "dealt with" or fired. And they submitted low ratings for me on Amazon and RateMyProfessor. But so far nothing else has happened, and I'll be all right.

Wow! Shows us the danger of social media. Hang in there.

Holy shit dude. That really sucks.

Wow Mori / Marty. That is just insane. People are crazy.

I don't get the outrage. I saw a quote (but not sure to whom it should be attributed): Equality/equal rights for more people doesn't mean less for you. It isn't pie.

Speaking of crazy people... I guess this is as good a place for this as any:

According to a recent poll, a majority of Republicans support the idea of using fears of voter fraud as an excuse to postpone the 2020 election and keep Trump in office.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mon ... 3b7f0897af

Cap wrote:Speaking of crazy people... I guess this is as good a place for this as any:

According to a recent poll, a majority of Republicans support the idea of using fears of voter fraud as an excuse to postpone the 2020 election and keep Trump in office.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mon ... 3b7f0897af

I'm not surprised. Nothing is too low for those spineless cowards.

In fairness, it's one poll, not a known polling firm, and, as far as I can see, they haven't published their methodology. So take with salt.

Also, as a practical matter, they can't. The election of Electors is up to the states, and the only states where this would even possibly fly are those that are so deeply red it doesn't matter.

I am not worried that Trump would cancel the 2020 election. I am worried that he will do things to abuse his position of power to sway the results. For example, he has basically unlimited media access as President, so what if in the last few days before the election, he uses this to sow doubt about his opponent, or to introduce a probably fake but damaging story about his opponent? That's basically how he won in 2016, but this time he could initiate it himself. Our system provides a huge advantage to an incumbent, and historically most incumbents have had the decency not to further abuse that advantage. Will Trump show the same restraint? I doubt it.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:I am not worried that Trump would cancel the 2020 election. I am worried that he will do things to abuse his position of power to sway the results. For example, he has basically unlimited media access as President, so what if in the last few days before the election, he uses this to sow doubt about his opponent, or to introduce a probably fake but damaging story about his opponent? That's basically how he won in 2016, but this time he could initiate it himself. Our system provides a huge advantage to an incumbent, and historically most incumbents have had the decency not to further abuse that advantage. Will Trump show the same restraint? I doubt it.

I don't think the fake news stories about Hillary is how he won. Look at what has happened to the voting rights act and how it has been dismantled. That is how he won (and boat loads of misogyny). And I don't see it changing soon. Hopefully there is enough of an uprising to change it, but I am not sure anymore.

By the way, I was contacted today by an editor at Breitbart.com asking if I would comment on this story for inclusion on their site. I didn't reply.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:By the way, I was contacted today by an editor at Breitbart.com asking if I would comment on this story for inclusion on their site. I didn't reply.

Oh, I'm sure you would get fair and balanced responses.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:By the way, I was contacted today by an editor at Breitbart.com asking if I would comment on this story for inclusion on their site. I didn't reply.

Smart choice.