Coronavirus

[Flagrant Fowl]

Singapore is an exception, not the model.

[3rdside]

Try telling that to Brexit Britain:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore-on-Thames

Not that it’s coming anywhere close to replicating it:

https://www.iflr.com/article/b1r3nl72tv ... it-fantasy

[Nodack]

You assume Singapore healthcare is the same as the US!

It’s ranked number one in the world:

It’s definitely ranked up there. I haven’t seen it ranked #1 anywhere though. France is always ranked #1 in any lists I have seen. I have seen it ranked #1 in certain categories.

Is Singapore’s “miracle” health care system the answer for America?
The Singapore model shows how liberal and conservative ideas can fuse.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... -explained

When liberals talk about their health care utopia, they have scores of examples to choose from. Some name France’s high-performing multi-payer system (No. 1 on the World Health Organization’s rankings, in case you haven’t heard). Others point to Canada’s single-payer simplicity. The Scandinavian countries all do health care well, and there’s much to recommend Germany’s hybrid approach.

Conservatives really only have one example of a free market health care paradise to point to: Singapore. But oh, what an example it is! In a New York Times column called “Make America Singapore,” Ross Douthat called it “the marvel of the wealthy world.” After the election, Fox News published an op-ed headlined, "Want to ditch ObamaCare? Let's copy Singapore's health care miracle.”

Why are conservatives so taken with Singapore? The American Enterprise Institute’s glowing write-up explains it well:

What’s the reason for Singapore’s success? It’s not government spending. The state, using taxes, funds only about one-fourth of Singapore’s total health costs. Individuals and their employers pay for the rest. In fact, the latest figures show that Singapore’s government spends only $381 (all dollars in this article are U.S.) per capita on health—or one-seventh what the U.S. government spends.

Singapore’s system requires individuals to take responsibility for their own health, and for much of their own spending on medical care.
Here’s what Singapore’s conservative admirers get right: Singapore really is the only truly universal health insurance system in the world based on the idea that patients, not insurers, should bear the costs of routine care.

But Singapore isn’t a free market utopia. Quite the opposite, really. It’s a largely state-run health care system where the government designed the insurance products with a healthy appreciation for free market principles — the kind of policy Milton Friedman might have crafted if he’d been a socialist.


Singapore sounds like a system that could happen if Democrats and Republicans worked together. Obviously that isn’t going to ever happen in any of our lifetimes.

https://www.commonwealthfund.org/public ... ing-poorly
In this report, we compare the health systems of 11 high-income countries as a means to generate insights about the policies and practices that are associated with superior performance.

Key Findings: The top-performing countries overall are Norway, the Netherlands, and Australia. The United States ranks last overall, despite spending far more of its gross domestic product on health care. The U.S. ranks last on access to care, administrative efficiency, equity, and health care outcomes, but second on measures of care process.


We suck and we are going to stay that way because we are dumb as rocks.

[Indy]

We suck and we are going to stay that way because we are dumb as rocks.

Yep.

[In2ition]

We suck and we are going to stay that way because we are dumb as rocks.

Yep.

Yes, I agree that we do suck, but I think eventually, we'll get our act together and come to our senses.

[Indy]

We've accepted 800,000 deaths and counting in this country alone. Not sure you can come back from that.

[Nodack]

I wish I shared your optimism in2ition. I have zero faith in us as a country right now.

[In2ition]

I know it looks bleak on that end, but I have faith it will turn around.

[3rdside]

You assume Singapore healthcare is the same as the US!

It’s ranked number one in the world:

1. I haven’t seen it ranked #1 anywhere though.


2. Singapore’s system requires individuals to take responsibility for their own health


3. The top-performing countries overall are Norway, the Netherlands, and Australia.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Fair enough, it's right at the top of the list though.

2. No doubt, but it will have a good mix of public / private to accommodate the poor, and I'm sure the quality of public hospitals will be very high.

3. I've experienced a lot of healthcare systems and Australia's is the best in terms of quality ... but it is very expensive for me. I'm not complaining as I'm relatively heathy (nothing major is wrong) but I pay about $100USD a month for insurance plus it's anywhere between $100USD to $200USD for each time I visit a specialist Dr.

This year alone I have seen a foot specialist for a broken foot, a shoulder specialist for shoulder that I wrecked 25 years ago requiring an MRI at $200 (no further treatment required, just the minor issue of a full shoulder replacement in 20 years time probably!), an allergy specialist, a joint specialist (turns out a lifetime of wearing flat soled skate shoes everywhere will catch up with your Achilles heels..), a rheumatologist for the same joint problem (no problems there..), likewise a podiatrist (custom inserts made at a couple hundred bucks) and physiotherapists (about $50 each time). I will go see a naturopath as well to complement the allergy Dr but that's $200 upfront so I'll save it for next year.

In the UK I could literally do that all for free (where the NHS is funded by a mandatory govt deduction from everyone each month out of a pay cheque).

While I don't think the UK model is the right one as there's too much money being spent on it (I always wanted to pay something / it felt like it shouldn't just be free) for somewhat inefficient outcomes (waiting times, confusion arranging appointments, sub standard doctors, sub standard facilities, sub standard care because of the strain on the system even though it improved in the 14 years I was there), I also feel like I'm being penalised here in Oz as most the health issues listed above are from being too active, which is surely what any govt wants of its citizens to minimise more serious health problems that put strain on the state.

And for all my genetic advantages, the allergy issue is an expensive genetic disadvantage - in the UK when I was dealing with it many years ago I had private health insurance via the companies I worked for, so it was no expense out of my pocket but in Australia, again, each citizen funds their own healthcare via private health insurance (which provides a rebate each time you visit a dr - those $ costs I mentioned above are net of the rebate) with the state charging a 1-1.5% tax on high earners to help with these rebates and fund those that don't have private health insurance.

The upside is that once I've done all these dr's I shouldn't need to do them again as I'm becoming better at managing my health, but g d it has been expensive getting here.

It sounds like Singapore has the same model but I suspect the French and Euro models lie somewhere between UK and Australia / Singapore .. which sounds like the right approach to me.

[3rdside]

As for the cost of drugs, I take Symbicort every day and it's a huge help and struggle big time without it - I find it expensive enough and I have a good job but OMFG:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/818 ... nd-abroad/

And Nasonex every day also - OMFG:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/818 ... nd-abroad/

And Flixonase (Flonase) every day also which I guess will have the same price differential.


I knew drugs were expensive for you guys but not so much for drugs required daily just to live a better quality of life... Any thoughts of moving to the USA are officially over!

I could struggle on without Symbicort and Flixonase but Nasonex I just could not .. 6x the price WTF.

[In2ition]

Nasonex at Fry's Pharmacy is $31.26 with free discount. Does that help?

[3rdside]

Maybe moving to LA is back on

[3rdside]

And is that for the 140 or 280 pump?

The 140 pump is about USD$17 here in Sydney.

[3rdside]

Actually it's USD$13 - i buy the twin 140 pump pack

[Nodack]

The Singapore model sounds like a Dem/Con hybrid. Something a United States would be able to compromise on and get done, which would be one of the greatest achievements in a long long time. Lowering healthcare costs for Americans and having true Universal Healthcare like every other advanced country would be huge.

We aren’t united. Compromise is a sign of weakness. To allow your nemesis a victory by voting for something while the other side has a majority is handing them a victory and reduces your chances of winning more seats and gaining the majority. Compromise must be avoided at all costs by both sides. Vote no on everything while the other side has a majority. Stall everything. Resist everything. Label every bill as bat sh-t crazy. They are the enemy. Treat them as such.

That’s where we’re at.

[3rdside]

https://johnhulsman.substack.com/p/the- ... epublicans

This is good from Hulsman - if / when USA can get past trump, maybe that will be the start of things changing. Maybe.

[Indy]

I have migraine meds that cost $897 for 10 pills.

[In2ition]

I'm sure that feels like $8.97 to you, Rockefeller.

[Mori Chu]

I'm sure that feels like $8.97 to you, Rockefeller.

At least Indy doesn't literally sit on a gold toilet in his penthouse.

[In2ition]

I'm sure that feels like $8.97 to you, Rockefeller.

At least Indy doesn't literally sit on a gold toilet in his penthouse.

Do we know this for sure? Gold is a good investment right now.