Political discussion here. Any reasonable opinion is welcome, but due to the sensitive nature of the topic area, please be nice and respectful to others. No flaming or trolling, please. And please keep political commentary out of the other board areas and confine it to this area. Thanks!
Same thing with the NH vote count. It was debunked the 2nd week of November. A simple google search would've presented that info.
Can you just say it was debunked, but offer no proof that it was debunked? That's not very convincing.
Here is an article by the Patch out of Windham, NH on November 17th, which says it wasn't debunked. https://patch.com/new-hampshire/windham ... ns-unknown
Even 3 days ago, the Concord Monitor said that it wasn't debunked. https://www.concordmonitor.com/Windham- ... s-38963346
Do you have something that offers proof that it was debunked that you can provide? Otherwise, what does that say about you claiming it was debunked?
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann "Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass
So when I read all of that, I think you're either knowingly posting/spreading false and misleading info, or you're falling for false and misleading info. Then, rather than saying, "You're right, sorry for posting an article with misleading info. I'll try and do better next time", you wrote "Both sides claim they won the lawsuit and we can agree we need accurate voter rolls", which is really just deflection.
I think doing individual research is essential in this day and age with so much content, news and stories coming out from all sides of the spectrum. But there can only be one set of facts and truth behind it. It can't be "Well I disagree with that so it's not true and I'm only to read and watch things I agree with and believe them". We're setting ourselves up for disaster in that case.
I don't have any problem with you guys calling me out. I'm a big boy, I can take it. I can also push back on false insinuations too. You can think whatever you want, but I will tell you that I'm not trying to lie, deceive or mislead any of you. I will offer information that calls out hypocrisy, and I'm not afraid of calling people out about it either.
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann "Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass
Well said, Shel! Yeah, I'm not going to waste my time debunking ridiculous claims. It's just sad that they are out there and that people believe them. Critical thinking skills are very limited in today's culture. But alas, that's why we are where we are today. That's why there's something like QAnon.
Don't worry Supe, you have plenty of teammates that will do the work for you.
I'm curious why does it seem that you or others here have such an obsession with QAnon? I have never read it, don't know where to find it, and never used it in any post of mine. I'm sure you are using it as a general sense, but you are trying to make this point about me in general. What have you guys read about QAnon that I'm missing out on?
Btw, on the critical thinking skills, I agree with you.
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann "Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass
I really appreciate ShelC's clear and insightful post debunking the Gateway Pundit articles. But it's just so tiresome to have to do this over and over. We shouldn't bear the burden of constantly rebutting all of these junky fake articles from junky fake sites. Once we show that a site is clearly full of distortions and lies, you should stop posting links to that site. Gateway Pundit is not journalism and cannot be trusted. If you post anything from there, it is worthless and likely false and not worthy of investigation or rebuttal or debunking.
You should ask yourself what it is about you that causes you to continue to go to sites like this even after you have been clearly shown why they intentionally lied to you and manipulated you. What makes you still want to consume their content? Why not condemn them and refuse to give them your attention and your business?
I agree that it's so tiresome to do this over and over and over. Please be specific, to what I posted that was wrong or fake, because that hasn't been. It's only said that your assumption in reading a headline deceived you. That's not me posting "junky fake sites" and it doesn't show that the headline was even fake. We can go through specifics on past posts that some here have given. Are we ready for that conversation?
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann "Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass
There’s a great quote from the philosopher Thomas Hobbes “when reason is against a man, a man will be against reason” which describes pretty well the feeling I get from the alt-right crowd.
I like the quote from Matthew 7:3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"
I’ve got to ask In2 - if you have dyslexia, how do you bang out your posts so quickly and cleanly? Does it apply only to reading and not writing?
I do a lot of copy & paste into Notepad when I write, and that way I can post many responses quickly. I also do a lot of rereading and editing of what I write, and editing what I post numerous times, which is annoying and time consuming. I also use a lot of spell check(note that Notepad has that though), which helps too. Reading is much harder for me, so what I do for both is I have to speak out what I read or what I write under my breath while doing it. That helps. It's also very slow though. It also helps that I've gotten better over the years, as my job has forced me to write a lot. I would never consider myself anywhere near a good or clean writer though.
My bookend sons(1st & 3rd) have dyslexia a little worse than I do.
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann "Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass
I wish I had the time and interest in reading these. I only offered Wikipedia, because it was used in a previous post to "debunk" my source.
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann "Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass
Every citizen should be able to vote. It shouldn't matter if they haven't voted in x number of elections. Or if they were once convicted of a crime. Or if they have unpaid parking tickets.
I wish I had the time and interest in reading these. I only offered Wikipedia, because it was used in a previous post to "debunk" my source.
Lol.
Just being honest. I opened one and it was 26 pages, and I thought...ugh.
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann "Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass
I'm not doing this. I have given up. If you post shitty random Twitter people or shitty conservative fake news sites, I'm not going to waste the time to debunk them or explain in detail why they're wrong. Trying to do so in the past got nowhere, so I have given up trying to have a substantive discussion with you. Others can if they want.
Well said, Shel! Yeah, I'm not going to waste my time debunking ridiculous claims. It's just sad that they are out there and that people believe them. Critical thinking skills are very limited in today's culture. But alas, that's why we are where we are today. That's why there's something like QAnon.
Don't worry Supe, you have plenty of teammates that will do the work for you.
I'm curious why does it seem that you or others here have such an obsession with QAnon? I have never read it, don't know where to find it, and never used it in any post of mine. I'm sure you are using it as a general sense, but you are trying to make this point about me in general. What have you guys read about QAnon that I'm missing out on?
Btw, on the critical thinking skills, I agree with you.
No, it wasn't about you. I was using QAnon in a general sense.
Also, In2, I'm sorry for being impatient and rude in my recent messages to/about you. I like having you on this site, in both the Suns/NBA and Politics sections. I just find the current situation in the US incredibly frustrating regarding news and politics. We just don't agree on the basic facts. Republicans read their sources, Dems read their sources. The sites say completely different and incompatible things. It's impossible to have a substantive conversation. One side gives a link to try to debunk or disprove the other, but the other person rejects it because it's not from "their" media.
How exactly do we fix this? How do we get back to having a shared reality to consider? How do we get back to the point where we have a shared set of facts and can disagree on what is best to do about them?
Maybe you need to lobotomize everyone, so we are all like ants and not question anything? It would be the perfect form of Communism and no one would actually have the need to look, read or question anyone's authority.
I just don't think we should even want everyone to just agree, because no one has every point of view covered. It just allows those in charge to be even more corrupt without any type of scrutiny. They could do any type of evil things and we would just all agree that it's for the greater good(even if it's not).
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann "Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass
There’s a great quote from the philosopher Thomas Hobbes “when reason is against a man, a man will be against reason” which describes pretty well the feeling I get from the alt-right crowd.
I like the quote from Matthew 7:3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"
I’ve got to ask In2 - if you have dyslexia, how do you bang out your posts so quickly and cleanly? Does it apply only to reading and not writing?
I do a lot of copy & paste into Notepad when I write, and that way I can post many responses quickly. I also do a lot of rereading and editing of what I write, and editing what I post numerous times, which is annoying and time consuming. I also use a lot of spell check(note that Notepad has that though), which helps too. Reading is much harder for me, so what I do for both is I have to speak out what I read or what I write under my breath while doing it. That helps. It's also very slow though. It also helps that I've gotten better over the years, as my job has forced me to write a lot. I would never consider myself anywhere near a good or clean writer though.
My bookend sons(1st & 3rd) have dyslexia a little worse than I do.
Maybe not the best approach using a quote, as there's literally a quote to suit any situation, but from where I stand it's like watching you argue that checkers is as complex as chess while citing Dr Seuss as a source and expecting me to take you seriously.
Besides the ridiculous argument, that you cite Dr Seuss makes the whole thing worse.
And your false equivalence of 'everyone should be lobotomized to think the same way' is just gaslighting; there's nothing wrong with a difference of opinion, there is when it relates to morality and ethics, where one side clearly is more tied to it than the other.
There’s a great quote from the philosopher Thomas Hobbes “when reason is against a man, a man will be against reason” which describes pretty well the feeling I get from the alt-right crowd.
I like the quote from Matthew 7:3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"
I’ve got to ask In2 - if you have dyslexia, how do you bang out your posts so quickly and cleanly? Does it apply only to reading and not writing?
I do a lot of copy & paste into Notepad when I write, and that way I can post many responses quickly. I also do a lot of rereading and editing of what I write, and editing what I post numerous times, which is annoying and time consuming. I also use a lot of spell check(note that Notepad has that though), which helps too. Reading is much harder for me, so what I do for both is I have to speak out what I read or what I write under my breath while doing it. That helps. It's also very slow though. It also helps that I've gotten better over the years, as my job has forced me to write a lot. I would never consider myself anywhere near a good or clean writer though.
My bookend sons(1st & 3rd) have dyslexia a little worse than I do.
Maybe not the best approach using a quote, as there's literally a quote to suit any situation, but from where I stand it's like watching you argue that checkers is as complex as chess while citing Dr Seuss as a source and expecting me to take you seriously.
Besides the ridiculous argument, that you cite Dr Seuss makes the whole thing worse.
And your false equivalence of 'everyone should be lobotomized to think the same way' is just gaslighting; there's nothing wrong with a difference of opinion, there is when it relates to morality and ethics, where one side clearly is more tied to it than the other.
My citation is Dr. Seuss or Dr. Seuss level? Ok 3rd, you can keep thinking that. That hubris has gone beyond arrogance at this point. You do you, 3rd. “You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose. You’re on your own. And you know what you know. And YOU are the one who’ll decide where to go…”
And your false equivalence argument is... I have no words on it. It's better that I not say anything at all on it. Then to speak about gaslighting, is a bit ironic. I was speaking about the hypocrisy, that I see. BTW, I didn't say that as an insult to Marty, not at all, nor was it any type of gaslighting, at least it wasn't meant to be in any way.
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann "Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass
I don't need to keep thinking that when it's literal fact that the garbage you're citing is just that.
And for clarity, I talk in relative terms - neither 'side' is perfect, but one is far more moral and ethical than the other (not to mention far less fucking stupid) and that's a fairly decent starting point when trying to work out who's likely to be more right than the other, or more hypocritical, if that's what you're arguing.
That you can't even acknowledge how bad the sites you're quoting are is the giveaway to both your position and mindset; while my perceived arrogance is offset by the fact that I'm always open to being corrected when the facts suggest it, is there an offset for stubborn ignorance?
I don't need to keep thinking that when it's literal fact that the garbage you're citing is just that.
And for clarity, I talk in relative terms - neither 'side' is perfect, but one is far more moral and ethical than the other (not to mention far less fucking stupid) and that's a fairly decent starting point when trying to work out who's likely to be more right than the other, or more hypocritical, if that's what you're arguing.
That you can't even acknowledge how bad the sites you're quoting are is the giveaway to both your position and mindset; while my perceived arrogance is offset by the fact that I'm always open to being corrected when the facts suggest it, is there an offset for stubborn ignorance?
I'm clearly not as smart as you 3rd, I concede that. I hope I'm not a complete a-hole to you, or openly or even passive aggressively insult you or anyone(at least I genuinely try not to). Saying what I post is 'garbage', my citations are 'Dr. Seuss', my side of the argument is 'fucking stupid', and I guess I'm 'stubbornly ignorant' too. How lovely and pleasant.
Do we have any mods anymore?
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann "Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass
In2, he didn't say what you post is garbage. He said the sites you reference are garbage. (and empirically, you can cite multiple trustworthy sources that show gateway pundit is full of shit, even if you don't want to read them)
He didn't say your arguments are 'fucking stupid.' He said the republicans' arguments are more fucking stupid than the dem arguments. So really he said both sides have fucking stupid arguments, just one is less so.
Discussion is getting heated, and less civil in here; though I am not sure what needs to censored by a mod.
I can definitely come across a little heavy however.
In2, I appreciate you being in here (seriously) but it’s hard to take seriously a view point based on junk media; for a proper argument acknowledging the quality of one’s references is surely a decent starting point.
And I don’t think I attacked you personally, my ‘stubborn ignorance’ comment was a like for like response to your arrogance comment, the difference being that I acknowledged how I could be perceived this way, but you haven’t acknowledged your perceived flaw.
Likening the Gateway Pundit to Dr Seuss isn’t the worst analogy all things considered although the checkers vs chess one could have been better; if you implied a personal attack from it then apologies as there was none intended (my issue is with your references, as Indy pointed out).
Here's the problem I have. I took it that you were comparing my quote from the bible to Dr. Seuss, which I thought was pretty demeaning.
I very well may be stubbornly ignorant on a great deal of things, and that's my own character flaw. I don't believe that it's entirely fair to conclude that the Gateway Pundit is a garbage source. I also gave 2 other sources that are much closer to the subject that also confirmed that it has not been debunked. I just get the feeling that it wouldn't matter what I used as the source, it would be considered garbage, and after we've all been lied to over the yrs by the accepted media, I have a hard time seeing someone as small as the Gateway Pundit being considered so much worse than those. How many times can we take what the mainstream media lying or deceiving all of us, before we look to other sources? Is this what we have to accept, when we find out over and over that it was a complete lie or that facts were censored or omitted to push their own agenda?
I'm not going to die on the hill that is the Gateway Pundit, but like I said, it wouldn't matter who I was using, imo.
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann "Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass
