This thread has kind of taken some twists and turns. Several posts were talking about religion. I believe strongly in freedom of religion and tolerance for those of different faiths. I don't like when Muslims are mistreated or treated like terrorists or non-Americans. I don't like when Christians are looked down on by some atheist liberals. I don't like when atheists or agnostics are excluded or forgotten in discussions of faith. I don't like when American Jews are lumped in with Israel and assumed to be somehow "loyal" to that country rather than the US. I don't like when faith is explicitly mixed with government, such as saying "under God" in the Pledge, or assuming that America is a Christian nation.
I also really don't like when people go deep-diving in holy texts to try to shit on somebody's religion. Yes, if you dig through the Christian Bible it has some zany stuff in it, like you can't wear shoes past 3pm on a Tuesday and you should slap your wife with a fish or whatever crazy thing you can find. And yes, the Quran says some discriminatory things about how to treat women or how passionately to defend the faith, etc. Very few people take these books 100% literally and follow every sentence written in them.
In general I'm very concerned by how little folks seem to show basic human compassion for the other people around them in this country, especially if the other person is from a different group (religion, political party, race). Most religions preach compassion and care for each other. We should start practicing it.
This thread has kind of taken some twists and turns. Several posts were talking about religion. I believe strongly in freedom of religion and tolerance for those of different faiths. I don't like when Muslims are mistreated or treated like terrorists or non-Americans. I don't like when Christians are looked down on by some atheist liberals. I don't like when atheists or agnostics are excluded or forgotten in discussions of faith. I don't like when American Jews are lumped in with Israel and assumed to be somehow "loyal" to that country rather than the US. I don't like when faith is explicitly mixed with government, such as saying "under God" in the Pledge, or assuming that America is a Christian nation.
I also really don't like when people go deep-diving in holy texts to try to shit on somebody's religion. Yes, if you dig through the Christian Bible it has some zany stuff in it, like you can't wear shoes past 3pm on a Tuesday and you should slap your wife with a fish or whatever crazy thing you can find. And yes, the Quran says some discriminatory things about how to treat women or how passionately to defend the faith, etc. Very few people take these books 100% literally and follow every sentence written in them.
In general I'm very concerned by how little folks seem to show basic human compassion for the other people around them in this country, especially if the other person is from a different group (religion, political party, race). Most religions preach compassion and care for each other. We should start practicing it.
The wikipedia stuff I posted about Muslims was a little inflammatory, but it was in response to Indy blanket shutting down Sam Harris, a Harvard educated neuroscientist and one of the world's foremost intellectuals, not least on matters of Islam, rather than designed to stir up feelings of dislike against Muslims, although I acknowledge it could have that effect.
But to quell the accusation that I'm just digging up anachronistic dirt:
- Charlie Hebdo, and similar *hypersensitivity to perceived mocking of Mohammed* crimes are real and ongoing.
- Homosexuality is still punishable by death in 13 Muslim countries.
- Jihad inspired terrorist crimes still happen regularly in Europe
- Women are openly and actively repressed, and are still publicly flogged and stoned to death in some countries
So if Sam Harris says it's the motherload of bad ideas, it's likely worth believing him.
None of this applies to how to treat people in the US or UK of course - one should treat everyone with respect - but should, imo, have some bearing on immigration policies, and there's nothing racist about that I don't think - it's seems to be more a case of being a realist about these things.
Re: Biden Administration misc. activities
Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:51 pm
by 3rdside
Germany's acceptance of up to 1m Muslims is often cited as evidence of a success story of the mass immigration of Muslims:
But with it comes the rise of the far right, and we know how that ends up - and this was actually a stated view of Brexit Britain, that Brexit was exactly essential to avoid this rise of the right in light of Europe's apparent open-arms immigration policy.
Re: Biden Administration misc. activities
Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:18 pm
by 3rdside
I'd add that immigration going forward is essential, as to grow companies and economies it requires human capital but, for example, UK's revised post-Brexit approach to immigration is intended to mimic Australia's; that if you've got in demand skills then come on in.
But mass acts of immigration for compassionate reasons like Germany's (and not including legitimate refugee claims) or try-your-luck asylum seeking that's happening en masse in the UK (and happened in Australia until they stopped the boats a few years ago - which lead, sadly, to horrendous consequences for some of those who've found themselves stuck in one of the detention centres for years on end) just won't be tolerated.
Re: Biden Administration misc. activities
Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:57 pm
by virtual9mm
I think that the point most folks are missing is that there are different types of Muslims doing very different types of things. Many Wahibis preach political violence and terrorism (and this is why Madrassas built by the Saudis stir up trouble in so many places). The Sufis are all about quiet meditation. Just rough stereotypes but when you are looking at a billion plus people you can't just caricature them as one (although I am doing the same at a more granular level).
Islam wasn't so strict or fanatical in the recent past. I've hung out with folks in S and SE Asia who say that they are Muslim but will drink a beer with you because "beer isn't alcoholic" or "Just because I am Muslim doesn't mean that I can't also be Buddhist too". But the Wahibis are just as much of a problem as 3rdside proposes. And the Saudis have transplanted their totalitarian version of Wahibism across the world using our own money.
Extremists in general are bad.
Re: Biden Administration misc. activities
Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:16 pm
by 3rdside
And this kind of thing does not help..
Re: Biden Administration misc. activities
Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:56 am
by Mori Chu
Lauren Boebert can go fuck herself. That type of talk is completely inappropriate for a sitting US Congressperson to use about another Congressperson, or really about any American. This is yet another step in the dehumanization and villainization the GOP is doing to their enemies, which will be used to oppress and commit violence against them in the near future.
Re: Biden Administration misc. activities
Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:05 am
by Nodack
The day we elected Trump was the day America died.
Re: Biden Administration misc. activities
Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:58 pm
by 3rdside
We must use our hearts and our heads to solve the migrant problem
Britain should crack down on the black economy to stem the flow but do more for those given asylum
Perhaps I should start on September 2, 2015, with the image of Alan Kurdi, a three-year-old boy wearing a red T-shirt and blue shorts, face down on a beach near the Turkish resort of Bodrum. His arms were by his side, tiny hands facing up towards a blue sky, nose resting gently on the wet sand. When I first gazed at that photograph, I was transfixed, and when I looked away, my cheeks were wet.
I remember going upstairs to the bedroom of my daughter Evie, almost exactly the same age at the time, and noted that she was lying on her small bed, face down, as she always did at that age, breathing gently; almost an exact replica of that beautiful boy. I reached out to her hand and held it for a long time, gripped by the unassailable conviction that I would do almost anything to help her escape danger or poverty.
My mind wandered to the Balkan migration crisis of the early 1990s and the reports of Bosnian Muslim girls being raped in front of their fathers, one aspect of the ethnic cleansing that led to the displacement of more than two million people, perhaps the worst human crisis in Europe since the Second World War. Who would not wish to escape such hellish tribulation?
My contempt towards those who post sneering comments in the aftermath of such tragedies is difficult to adequately convey. I looked at Twitter after the death of that Syrian child, his mother and his brother and noted comments like “serves them right” and “Great! Will send a message to the others”. Some politicians offered more slippery but no less transparent nastiness. This is, to my mind, close to evil. The demonisation of “the other” turns one’s stomach.
If nothing else, should we not reflect on the vast contingency that allowed us to be born in this country? We did not deserve this good fortune any more than migrants deserve their ill. If you look across the array of times and habitats in which humans have existed, even the relatively poor in the UK today have material wealth and legal stability of a kind that has eluded 99.9 per cent of our fellow Homo sapiens. As the hymn puts it: “It is a thing most wonderful, almost too wonderful to be!”
Today, inchoate emotions bubble up as I look at the image of the pitiful inflatable that had been carrying 27 people who perished in the Channel last week. My mind has always reeled at the idea of asphyxiation by drowning. How must it have been on that terrible night? Did mums and dads hold beloved children above the surface of the freezing water even as they succumbed? The heart bleeds to contemplate such things, but contemplate them we must.
But let me also engage the head rather than the heart. For is there not a callousness, too, in the purported remedies of liberals? I have read more books on migration than I care to remember and recoil from the fuzzy thinking of those who claim to be motivated by compassion. Open borders? More generous benefits for those who make it here? Is there no understanding of the signal this would send to millions to take greater risks and the boon to traffickers, who would still be operating? These are not solutions; they are sticking plasters for the conscience.
And should we not acknowledge that those crossing the Channel are not fleeing war-torn homelands but a safe nation? Should we not distinguish between refugees and economic migrants? Many testify that they are motivated by the English language or family in the UK, but other “pull” factors are implicated. Easy access to employment on the black market is a loophole that the government has proved unwilling or unable to shut down.
Wise heads nod sagely at this point and say that all migration policy is doomed because it targets the symptoms and not the root causes, but this is specious, too. It amounts to a call for massive increases in aid spending and intervention to pacify distant conflicts. Root causes? Many wars are built upon sectarian animosities stretching back thousands of years, which westerners scarcely understand. Look at Afghanistan today and the fruits of two decades of intervention costing trillions.
My point — and it is not a sophisticated one — is that neither compassion nor callousness meets the complexity of this challenge. Nor does the government’s search for silver bullets. Priti Patel is squealing at the French for not playing ball without seeming to realise that Emmanuel Macron controls their territory and isn’t displeased to see migrants leaving their borders, a pass-the-parcel game of human misery that is sitting like a timebomb under Europe.
So let us look at a “systems approach”. Michael Muthukrishna, a professor at the London School of Economics, suggests that if asylum claimants were held offshore or at a remote location within the UK and boats were detained with rapid processing, crossings would plummet. Matt Dathan of The Times argued last week that this would be costly because of the numbers, but this fails to account for how such a centre would stem the flow. Consider, by way of analogy, that nations with the rule of law don’t need to punish citizens as much as nations that lack it. Credible threat is sufficient.
We should swiftly deport anyone whose claim was rejected to their point of origin. Claimants who refused to say from where they came would be detained while negotiations with foreign nations took place. This would encourage claimants to bring travel documents or contact family members to vouch for them, while deterring economic migrants, undercutting the business model of the traffickers. Crucially, we should offer more support to those granted asylum, helping them to integrate themselves and find employment. And we should crack down on the black economy, something that undermines legitimate business and winks at exploitation.
Muthukrishna argues that this would find a more tolerable balance between heart and head, sympathy and realism. We are not an uncompassionate nation, but people can see that weak border policies are being exploited. Governments have to work together across frontiers, too, and resist the kind of juvenile posturing we are seeing from the UK and France.
In other words, this is a problem that requires enlightened leadership and political courage. It is a tragedy that these qualities are in such pitifully short supply.
2. Young Americans place the chances that they will see a second civil war in their lifetime at 35%; chances that at least one state secedes at 25%
3. Half of young Americans say they’re a different person because of Covid-19
4. Biden approval drops to 46% among young Americans; a majority of youth disapprove of the way President Biden, Democrats, and Republicans in Congress are handling their jobs
5. More than half (51%) of young Americans report having felt down, depressed, and hopeless -- and 25% have had thoughts of self-harm -- at least several times in the last two weeks
6. A majority (56%) of young Americans expect climate change to impact their future decisions -- and nearly half (45%) already see its local effects
7. More than half of young Americans believe that the federal government is not doing enough to address climate change
8. Strengthening the economy, uniting the country, and improving health care are viewed as keys to a successful presidency in the eyes of young Americans
9. By a margin of more than 2-to-1, young Americans value compromise over confrontation
10. American Exceptionalism is a highly divisive issue among young Americans, less than one-third believe that “America is the greatest country in the world
Re: Biden Administration misc. activities
Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:51 pm
by Mori Chu
I didn't want to make a whole new thread for this, but I've been considering starting a thread about how the GOP is likely to attempt an authoritarian takeover of the United States and overthrow American democracy. This article is a good start.
Probably why he desperately wants to become active president again, to avoid prosecution. Once in, he can complete his coup with enough yes men in place to never relinquish the position until the day he dies.
Re: Biden Administration misc. activities
Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2021 3:04 pm
by Mori Chu
The Dem "moderates" have all but killed the reconciliation BBB bill.
Re: Biden Administration misc. activities
Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2021 3:32 pm
by Indy
Manchin won't vote for it if it keeps the child tax credit. And Sinema and Manchin (and some others) seem to want to cut out the restrictions on big oil.
Re: Biden Administration misc. activities
Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 12:00 pm
by Mori Chu
Manchin announces he's out on BBB and is done negotiating on it. Rough news for the Biden agenda:
Re: Biden Administration misc. activities
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2021 4:39 pm
by Flagrant Fowl
I didn't know where to put this, but I felt the comic relief would be appreciated.