World Politics

Political discussion here. Any reasonable opinion is welcome, but due to the sensitive nature of the topic area, please be nice and respectful to others. No flaming or trolling, please. And please keep political commentary out of the other board areas and confine it to this area. Thanks!
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Nodack
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Re: World Politics

Post by Nodack »

We all get to choose who we blame. The bottom line is there is no democracy in Afghanistan without a US military presence backing it. We just proved that big time. Republicans were willing to stay there forever I think. Biden didn’t want us there. Trump came along and decided to pull the troops out. He’s the only Republican who could have gotten away with that. At his rally less than 8 weeks ago Trump was bragging how he was the one that got us out of Afghanistan against the wishes of Democrats and that it would be nearly impossible to stop what he started.



The withdrawal has been a mess. The Afghan troop collapse really F’ed the withdrawal plans. On the US side they have been presented with a set of challenges trying to get people out. Biden has taken a serious hit from this. Anyone that needs to get out headed for the Kabul airport. The Taliban decided to surround the airport and have been keeping people from entering. There have been beatings and people shot trying to enter the airport.
We saw the scenes of people climbing on airplanes and falling to their deaths.

The day after the US sent in US military and have regained control of the airport runways etc. but, the Taliban still control access to the airport. The US has countered the Taliban by staging people that need to get out outside of the airport in undisclosed places and have been picking them up by chinook helicopters and taking them to the airport where military aircraft have been flying them out. They were getting about 1000 people out a day to start. Now they are over 5000 a day.

They Pentagon has ordered commercial airlines to help evacuate people from Afghanistan. The military flies them out of Kabul to undisclosed safe airports where they switch to commercial.

https://www.reuters.com/world/biden-adm ... 021-08-22/

The evacuation has been a mess but, they have really stepped up efforts to get these people out.

As far as taking the blame for leaving in general both Presidents have taken credit.

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Nodack
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Re: World Politics

Post by Nodack »

The reason all those Visas for the Afghans that worked for the US were tied up in limbo for so long? They were being deliberately halted because certain people in the Trump administration didn’t want them in the US and sabotaged the process.

Pence aide blames Stephen Miller for 'devastating' visa system for Afghans
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 228495002/
WASHINGTON – A former aide to former Vice President Mike Pence blamed racist views of a top Trump administration official for the inability of many translators and other allies to get out of Afghanistan before the U.S. withdrew troops.

Olivia Troye tweeted that Stephen Miller, a senior adviser to former President Donald Trump, teamed up with “enablers” to undermine anyone trying to get the allies out by “devastating” the special immigrant visa system at the departments of State and Homeland Security.

“Stephen Miller would peddle his racist hysteria about Iraq & Afghanistan,” tweeted Troye. She described Pence as “fully aware” of the problem.

Trump admin broke law with visa delays for Afghans, Iraqis who worked for U.S., judge rules
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigr ... d-n1057846

A federal judge has ruled that the Trump administration violated the law by failing to promptly resolve visa applications for thousands of Afghans and Iraqis who worked for American troops and diplomats, and ordered the government to fix the delays.

U.S. District Court Judge Tanya Chutkan of Washington, D.C., said the government offered no convincing explanation why it has failed to abide by 2013 legislation requiring authorities to deliver a decision on visa applications for Afghans and Iraqis within nine months. Instead, many applicants — who risked their lives working for U.S. troops or other government agencies — have had to wait for several years to get an answer on their visa requests, the court said in the ruling handed down on Friday.





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Flagrant Fowl
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Re: World Politics

Post by Flagrant Fowl »

Explain to me how the guy who was born on third base and routinely cheated everyone in the business world before he became POTUS would've done anything better than what we've seen from the Biden administration over the last week.

Objectively, no one can explain how it would've happened because there isn't any evidence of Trump being able to do it in his entire life.

"The man understood optics." is the most hilarious thing I've read in a while.
UOducks4life in a previous life. Valar Morghulis.

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Nodack
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Re: World Politics

Post by Nodack »

The Trump admin sabotaged the program designed to expedite getting them out for years. I have my doubts how much effort he would have put into getting them out in the last few days. The military leaders that told Biden the Afghan troops should hold out for roughly 18 months would have told Trump the same thing.

Things are getting dicey. We have the Taliban and the US military in very close quarters with thousands of civilians between them. We just had a firefight at the airport between forces. It’s only a matter of time before things escalate.

“the Islamist group is believed to have gained includes hundreds of thousands of assault rifles, thousands of armored vehicles, dozens of aircraft, tanks, artillery, sniper rifles, night-vision goggles and much more.”

I am pretty sure that after the US is gone that a lot of that military hardware that the Taliban confiscated will suddenly stop working in the middle of the night.

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Nodack
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Re: World Politics

Post by Nodack »

They were getting about 1000 people out a day to start. Now they are over 5000 a day.

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/5690 ... fghanistan
The U.S. military says it has evacuated roughly 37,000 people from Afghanistan in just over a week, nearly half of whom have been removed in the last 24 hours.

About 16,000 people have been evacuated out of Kabul on 28 military flights and 61 coalition aircraft in the past day, Maj. Gen. Hank Taylor, deputy director of the Joint Regional Operations, told reporters at the Pentagon.


They have obviously been able to ramp up operations.

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Flagrant Fowl
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Re: World Politics

Post by Flagrant Fowl »

I served in Afghanistan as a US Marine, twice. Here’s the truth in two sentences
One: For 20 years, politicians, elites and D.C. military leaders lied to us about Afghanistan.

Two: What happened last week was inevitable, and anyone saying differently is still lying to you.

https://www.kansascity.com/opinion/read ... st_opinion

This guy is support for the point I was trying to make last week. Besides seeking revenge against Al-Qaeda for 9/11, the entire military operation in the Middle East has been a grift for evil, greedy (mostly American) people.
UOducks4life in a previous life. Valar Morghulis.

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3rdside
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World Politics

Post by 3rdside »

3rdside wrote:If this result was inevitable then it’s possibly better to look at it in terms of a political move, that he’s just carried out a Trump policy, giving the GOP crazies one less thing to shout about.

Could have been handled better I’m sure, but the genesis of fault is the Bush administration, with one bad decision following the other from there from all subsequent administrations.

Trump’s role in the current fiasco sounds pretty damning but again, this is all on Bush.
At risk of sounding like I’m swaying in the breeze, this from Ambrose Evans Pritchard in the Telegraph, providing detail to my original comments above:



History may just vindicate Biden over Afghanistan

China and Russia ultimately have more to fear from the Jihadi destabilisation of Central Asia than the US



Spoiler: show/hide

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3rdside
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Re: World Politics

Post by 3rdside »

And this from Michael Cohen (a slightly random person to quote tweet but he is a very astute individual ..):


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3rdside
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Re: World Politics

Post by 3rdside »

John Hulsman - very good, including more appropriate comments about Tony Blair than mine were!

https://johnhulsman.substack.com/p/the- ... ource=copy

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Mori Chu
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Re: World Politics

Post by Mori Chu »

My quick take on Afghanistan is that I'm glad we're getting out, and while I find the deaths and violence tragic, I would rather suffer that briefly than stay there and continue wasting time, money, and lives by continuing to occupy the country. Biden hasn't done a perfect job with the withdrawal, but they've evacuated a whole bunch of people by now. I think a lot of the attacks on the job he's doing are in bad faith being done by partisans who are eager for an excuse to tear him apart, and by media sources eager to show that they aren't cheerleaders for Biden/Dems. I don't think the Afghanistan issue will be important in the 2022 / 2024 elections.

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Indy
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Re: World Politics

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it is a disaster, and it was always going to be a disaster. Not just when Trump signed that agreement, but once we invaded under Bush, and then kept pouring money and bombs and drones and soldiers into it under him and Obama, and Trump. You can't nation-build and leave and expect it to be anything less than a disaster unless the new regime is leading with an iron fist, and that is usually the problem we are trying to 'fix' when we nation-build.

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Nodack
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Re: World Politics

Post by Nodack »

The war in Afghanistan has ended. 20 years.I was just thinking back and seem to remember us discussing 9/11 and debating the Iraq and Afghanistan wars here. Maybe not exactly here but with mostly the same bunch of guys. Too bad we can’t go back and take a look at some of our comments from back then.

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Indy
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Re: World Politics

Post by Indy »

Only a few days away from the 20th anniversary.

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virtual9mm
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Re: World Politics

Post by virtual9mm »

US is de facto allied with the Taliban now. Barf...

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Nodack
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Re: World Politics

Post by Nodack »

I don’t feel like the US is allies with the Taliban at all. I feel like we had a temporary truce. The US wanted out. The Taliban wanted us out. Both sides were willing to hold off hostilities while we got out. We still have people there so we will continue with the truce to help ensure we get as many out as we can. I don’t think the US or the Taliban are under any illusions that we are allies.

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Indy
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Re: World Politics

Post by Indy »

Well, we did give them a list of people we wanted them to ensure the safety of as they got to the airport. I think that is one reason V9 said 'de facto' allies. We treated them like one.

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virtual9mm
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Re: World Politics

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Nodack
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Re: World Politics

Post by Nodack »

Xi's crackdown is remaking Chinese society
https://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/a ... 445407.php
The orders have been sudden, dramatic and often baffling. Last week, "American Idol"-style competitions and shows featuring men deemed too effeminate were banned by Chinese authorities. Days earlier, one of China's wealthiest actresses, Zhao Wei, had her movies, television series and news mentions scrubbed from the Internet as if she had never existed.

Over the summer, China's multibillion-dollar private education industry was decimated overnight by a ban on for-profit tutoring, while new regulations wiped more than $1 trillion from Chinese tech stocks since a peak in February. As China's tech moguls compete to donate more to President Xi Jinping's campaign against inequality, "Xi Jinping Thought" is taught in elementary schools, and foreign games and apps like Animal Crossing and Duolingo have been pulled from stores.

"I do believe we are seeing a profound transformation of society, especially given that the government has implemented definitive and strict regulatory measures in such a short amount of time and in so many different industries," he said.

The scope and velocity of the society-wide rectification has some worried China may be at the beginning of the kind of cultural and ideological upheaval that has brought the country to a standstill before.

Last week, an essay by a retired newspaper editor and blogger described the changes as a response to threats from the United States. "What these events tell us is that a monumental change is taking place in China, and that the economic, financial, cultural, and political spheres are undergoing a profound transformation - or, one could say, a profound revolution," wrote Li Guangman.

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Nodack
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Re: World Politics

Post by Nodack »

FBI releases first secret 9/11 file: Saudi embassy official let two hijackers stay at his apartment and helped them in LA before the attack, was 'facilitator' for Al-Qaeda and distributed extremist Muslim literature
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... rs-LA.html

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Indy
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Re: World Politics

Post by Indy »

Nodack wrote:
Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:56 pm
FBI releases first secret 9/11 file: Saudi embassy official let two hijackers stay at his apartment and helped them in LA before the attack, was 'facilitator' for Al-Qaeda and distributed extremist Muslim literature
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... rs-LA.html
So the only person tied to a government was a Saudi, and we decided to kill a million people in Afganistan and Iraq because oil (and especially the Bush family/admin's ties to oil).

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