http://www.vox.com/2015/6/3/8706323/col ... sor-afraid
Isn't one of you a college prof? Does this align with your own experiences?
From a professional standpoint I know that the younger generation I've worked with, albeit in small sample sizes, have been worthless. They expect praise for fulfilling basic responsibilities, and have this expectation that success will just be handed to them regardless of work ethic, attitude, or accomplishment. Call it 'the participation trophy' society, I guess. This is what happens when we don't keep score and everyone gets a medal.
"Kids today"
Re: "Kids today"
I am not sure what the "younger generation" actually is anymore, but I have had to hire quite a few people over the last 5-10 years, nearly all of them born in the 80s, some in the 90s. I have found very few to expect something for nothing, or have poor work ethics. Off the top of my head, I can only remember two people (out of 25-30) that ever called in sick more than once in a year. Actually, of the dozen or so people I have had to fire over the past 10 years, only one was born after 1980.
Maybe this is because I am only hiring college-educated employees, or maybe it is our interview/hiring process, or maybe even just our basic expectations and reputation. So maybe different industries attract different types of people. I am not sure of the underlying issues, but I certainly do hear people my age and older complain about the younger, more privileged generation being lazy, or entitled. I just haven't seen much of it. Or maybe every generation complains about the younger generation, going back as far as recorded history.
Maybe this is because I am only hiring college-educated employees, or maybe it is our interview/hiring process, or maybe even just our basic expectations and reputation. So maybe different industries attract different types of people. I am not sure of the underlying issues, but I certainly do hear people my age and older complain about the younger, more privileged generation being lazy, or entitled. I just haven't seen much of it. Or maybe every generation complains about the younger generation, going back as far as recorded history.
Re: "Kids today"
It's up to parents to mold their kids correctly. My kids (young men, 18 and 20) in no way fit that description. They are hard working and responsible.
"Too little, too late, too unbothered."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
"Be Legendary."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
"Be Legendary."
Re: "Kids today"
What industry are you in again, Indy?
It's up to parents to mold their kids correctly. My kids (young men, 18 and 20) in no way fit that description. They are hard working and responsible.
Oh, absolutely. It's all on parenting. The helicopter moms who give me the evil eye when I announce the score at my 5-year old's soccer games come to mind.
It's up to parents to mold their kids correctly. My kids (young men, 18 and 20) in no way fit that description. They are hard working and responsible.
Oh, absolutely. It's all on parenting. The helicopter moms who give me the evil eye when I announce the score at my 5-year old's soccer games come to mind.
Re: "Kids today"
I am in a medical manufacturing, but most of my work is either on the engineering side of things or business development.
Re: "Kids today"
Generation we'd be talking about would be the ones born after 1990, so my sample size in IT might be bigger than yours, not sure. It's not 100% to be sure but it's definitely there.
Re: "Kids today"
I think people are all the same generation through generation. I have no kids, but I have nephews and nieces. I agree that the way you raise them is the most important factor, but their surroundings I believe is a big factor as well. I would bet people have been saying "Kids these days" for thousands of years.
Every generation of kids tries to distinguish themselves from their preceding generation. They are going to change the world for the better and fix all the mistakes their parents generation made. Reminds me of all the 60s flower power children that we're going to fix everything. Their music is always different and their parents are always going to hate it in favor of music that was popular when they were kids and their parents hated it and so on.
Are they lazy? Some are, some aren't. Some were born into a wealthy family, spoiled rotten and expect everything handed to them. Some were born into a wealthy family, but their parents taught them the value of hard work and money. Some were raised poor and know the meaning of being poor. They might try harder than everybody else to make it while another poor kid has learned their place and have accepted being poor and might just try to skate by milking of society as much as possible.
I think labeling any group as "all" being one way or another isn't accurate. All Republicans like war and cater to the rich. All Democrats want to live in a Communist society and milk off society. All people with shaved heads are Nazi's. All bikers are ruthless killers. All police officers hate blacks. All car repairman are crooks.
Every time somebody does something bad it makes the news. Very rarely does somebody doing good ever make the news. People like bad news and aren't interested in the good stories. Ever go to a movie where only good things happen? They don't make those movies because nobody would ever go see them. We need a villain to despise or else life is boring. Democrats and Republicans NEED each other. What would they do without each other?
Every generation of kids tries to distinguish themselves from their preceding generation. They are going to change the world for the better and fix all the mistakes their parents generation made. Reminds me of all the 60s flower power children that we're going to fix everything. Their music is always different and their parents are always going to hate it in favor of music that was popular when they were kids and their parents hated it and so on.
Are they lazy? Some are, some aren't. Some were born into a wealthy family, spoiled rotten and expect everything handed to them. Some were born into a wealthy family, but their parents taught them the value of hard work and money. Some were raised poor and know the meaning of being poor. They might try harder than everybody else to make it while another poor kid has learned their place and have accepted being poor and might just try to skate by milking of society as much as possible.
I think labeling any group as "all" being one way or another isn't accurate. All Republicans like war and cater to the rich. All Democrats want to live in a Communist society and milk off society. All people with shaved heads are Nazi's. All bikers are ruthless killers. All police officers hate blacks. All car repairman are crooks.
Every time somebody does something bad it makes the news. Very rarely does somebody doing good ever make the news. People like bad news and aren't interested in the good stories. Ever go to a movie where only good things happen? They don't make those movies because nobody would ever go see them. We need a villain to despise or else life is boring. Democrats and Republicans NEED each other. What would they do without each other?
Re: "Kids today"
Maybe this is just me, but I think "kids" today that are in the entry-level IT realm are not used to dealing with people in the real world, and are used to getting whatever they want (digitally) whenever they want it. That is not a good starting point for learning hard work.Dan H wrote:Generation we'd be talking about would be the ones born after 1990, so my sample size in IT might be bigger than yours, not sure. It's not 100% to be sure but it's definitely there.
Re: "Kids today"
Or...Nodack wrote:I think people are all the same generation through generation. I have no kids, but I have nephews and nieces. I agree that the way you raise them is the most important factor, but their surroundings I believe is a big factor as well. I would bet people have been saying "Kids these days" for thousands of years.
Every generation of kids tries to distinguish themselves from their preceding generation. They are going to change the world for the better and fix all the mistakes their parents generation made. Reminds me of all the 60s flower power children that we're going to fix everything. Their music is always different and their parents are always going to hate it in favor of music that was popular when they were kids and their parents hated it and so on.
Are they lazy? Some are, some aren't. Some were born into a wealthy family, spoiled rotten and expect everything handed to them. Some were born into a wealthy family, but their parents taught them the value of hard work and money. Some were raised poor and know the meaning of being poor. They might try harder than everybody else to make it while another poor kid has learned their place and have accepted being poor and might just try to skate by milking of society as much as possible.
I think labeling any group as "all" being one way or another isn't accurate. All Republicans like war and cater to the rich. All Democrats want to live in a Communist society and milk off society. All people with shaved heads are Nazi's. All bikers are ruthless killers. All police officers hate blacks. All car repairman are crooks.
Every time somebody does something bad it makes the news. Very rarely does somebody doing good ever make the news. People like bad news and aren't interested in the good stories. Ever go to a movie where only good things happen? They don't make those movies because nobody would ever go see them. We need a villain to despise or else life is boring. Democrats and Republicans NEED each other. What would they do without each other?
All of Nodack's posts are rationale and well-thought-out.
Re: "Kids today"
I teach at Stanford. I have thoughts on this but will reply tomorrow. Short version: It's a bit of an issue but not as bad as the author makes it out to be.
Re: "Kids today"
Ah, Vox.
So, I'm not going to take the article seriously on two fronts. Which basically leaves us with the thread title. Which is the same complaint every generation has ever had against a younger generation.Edward Schlosser is a college professor, writing under a pseudonym.
Re: "Kids today"
Here's a bit more into one of the stories the original author mentioned. Interested to hear your take and experiences.Mori Chu wrote:I teach at Stanford. I have thoughts on this but will reply tomorrow. Short version: It's a bit of an issue but not as bad as the author makes it out to be.
http://jezebel.com/feminist-prof-cleare ... 1708264024
Okay, Andy, what's the problem with Vox? It's certainly aligned more with the political tendencies of this board than oh, Reason, or National Review. Is there an approved source list somewhere I was unaware of?
Re: "Kids today"
Here's a bit longer message on this. I could probably write a very long message but I have to write a final exam today, so maybe that'll have to wait. 
I don't entirely agree with this article and the author's experiences don't totally match my own, but I still think it's an interesting read.
I do think that in general the humans I interact with at university in 2015 have very thin skin and can't handle hearing anything that might possibly offend or upset them or that disagrees with their own views. It does tend to make me scared as a teacher that I'll happen to say the wrong thing and upset somebody, and that they'll raise a stink and get me into big trouble. It does seem like people's right to be offended and desire to avoid any possibly offensive content in their lives is starting to trump other concerns and starting to shut down certain kinds of discussions, and I think that's a shame.
The thing that I think has changed recently is, the tone of the conversation doesn't seem to imply that we're trying to be on the same team. Hey, if I upset you, I probably didn't mean to. I didn't take this job to walk around upsetting and offending everybody. We're all trying to get through an educational process here. We all want the same things. Let's talk as friends and allies. I believe in social justice and correcting misbehavior, but it should be commensurate with the original offense and should be done with an understanding of the alleged offender's original intent and role and goals.
I have generally chosen not to worry every day about saying or doing the wrong thing. I'm pretty sure that I do things that upset people in my job, from a swear word in lecture to a negative or unpopular opinion at a staff meeting. I haven't been tarred and feathered for it yet, but it might just be a matter of time. I'm lucky that I work in a department that I believe would support me if I were part of an innocent misunderstanding. And if anybody ever told me in a kind way about an unintended offense I committed, I'd try to correct it.
I don't entirely agree with this article and the author's experiences don't totally match my own, but I still think it's an interesting read.
I do think that in general the humans I interact with at university in 2015 have very thin skin and can't handle hearing anything that might possibly offend or upset them or that disagrees with their own views. It does tend to make me scared as a teacher that I'll happen to say the wrong thing and upset somebody, and that they'll raise a stink and get me into big trouble. It does seem like people's right to be offended and desire to avoid any possibly offensive content in their lives is starting to trump other concerns and starting to shut down certain kinds of discussions, and I think that's a shame.
The thing that I think has changed recently is, the tone of the conversation doesn't seem to imply that we're trying to be on the same team. Hey, if I upset you, I probably didn't mean to. I didn't take this job to walk around upsetting and offending everybody. We're all trying to get through an educational process here. We all want the same things. Let's talk as friends and allies. I believe in social justice and correcting misbehavior, but it should be commensurate with the original offense and should be done with an understanding of the alleged offender's original intent and role and goals.
I have generally chosen not to worry every day about saying or doing the wrong thing. I'm pretty sure that I do things that upset people in my job, from a swear word in lecture to a negative or unpopular opinion at a staff meeting. I haven't been tarred and feathered for it yet, but it might just be a matter of time. I'm lucky that I work in a department that I believe would support me if I were part of an innocent misunderstanding. And if anybody ever told me in a kind way about an unintended offense I committed, I'd try to correct it.
Re: "Kids today"
You're in STEM, right? I'd assume it might be worse in humanities or other soft subjects. We didn't have time for BS like that in my engineering and computer science classes, heh.
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Nothing is inherently wrong with Vox. However, the format of Vox is designed to make it fairly easy to publish there, so I take their content with a pretty healthy dose of salt unless I have time to evaluate an author at more length. There is some good content, some dreadful content, and a vast amount that lacks something I expect from anyone calling themselves a journalist.
This article does not, in any way, meet that standard. I mean, it would be at least something if a regular author had interviewed this supposed professor and presented the inter I'm anonymously. That gives a little bit of credibility to it. But it could literally be anyone. Was the article one they solicited, or did the professor just submit it? Did they take steps to verify that he's actually a professor, and not impersonating a real professor?
But I will give him the benefit of the doubt. His complaints, however, come across as a paranoid rant more than anything. I know, he's a good and smart professor -- he even told me so! So of course I should take his rant seriously. But, I just can't.
This article does not, in any way, meet that standard. I mean, it would be at least something if a regular author had interviewed this supposed professor and presented the inter I'm anonymously. That gives a little bit of credibility to it. But it could literally be anyone. Was the article one they solicited, or did the professor just submit it? Did they take steps to verify that he's actually a professor, and not impersonating a real professor?
But I will give him the benefit of the doubt. His complaints, however, come across as a paranoid rant more than anything. I know, he's a good and smart professor -- he even told me so! So of course I should take his rant seriously. But, I just can't.
Re: "Kids today"
I do not often agree with PZ Myers, but his takedown on the Schlosser rant is pretty solid. This is pretty much how I feel.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... estion-me/
Also, my experience has generally been the opposite. In my industry, the younger kids who start are usually eager to learn and improve. They obviously don't enjoy being told when they screwed up, but if you aren't a prick about it, they usually take that and learn from it.
But the people who have been there forever? They have real issues with someone younger than them being viewed as a peer. They are more often stuck in their ways and less open to change... Frequently acting threatened by it. They are more likely to move at a plodding pace in order to make sure they always look busy, and are more apathetic about the quality of their work. They do not come up with new ideas, and actively oppose changing anything, even when the existing system is broken.
I freelance, so I wok with a number of clients in several industries. This trend is not unique to any particular field. Nor am I speaking for all or even most people I work with... But the majority of the people I work with who are problems are older, and slower, and frankly not as good at their jobs as they think.
Give me the young, impressionable kid. That one can be molded into something.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... estion-me/
Also, my experience has generally been the opposite. In my industry, the younger kids who start are usually eager to learn and improve. They obviously don't enjoy being told when they screwed up, but if you aren't a prick about it, they usually take that and learn from it.
But the people who have been there forever? They have real issues with someone younger than them being viewed as a peer. They are more often stuck in their ways and less open to change... Frequently acting threatened by it. They are more likely to move at a plodding pace in order to make sure they always look busy, and are more apathetic about the quality of their work. They do not come up with new ideas, and actively oppose changing anything, even when the existing system is broken.
I freelance, so I wok with a number of clients in several industries. This trend is not unique to any particular field. Nor am I speaking for all or even most people I work with... But the majority of the people I work with who are problems are older, and slower, and frankly not as good at their jobs as they think.
Give me the young, impressionable kid. That one can be molded into something.
Re: "Kids today"
what's with the BDS thing at stanford?Mori Chu wrote:I teach at Stanford. I have thoughts on this but will reply tomorrow. Short version: It's a bit of an issue but not as bad as the author makes it out to be.
Re: "Kids today"
arent LIBERALS to blame for this? they're the ones running the schools and brainwashing the kids to behave in fascist ways, right?
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2 ... /28264153/
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2 ... /28264153/
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i'm glad the Paleo-Left is finally leading this anti-free speech fight against their own creations.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/were- ... le/2565566For years, conservatives have railed against the suppression of free speech and increasing authoritarianism on college campuses — and they've been largely written off by the liberal establishment in academia.
But now, the culture that has been cultivated by liberal ideologues has turned against them, and they're fighting back.
The latest example comes from professor Edward Schlosser (a pseudonym), who wrote an article titled: "I'm a liberal professor, and my liberal students terrify me."