Suns trading Melton and Jackson to Grizz for Korver and Javon Carter

[Indy]

I'm pretty convinced the Suns will win 35 games this year. They will be better at every position for the entire year except SG:

PG - Last year: G-league level talent(who?), Johnson(late acquisition, hurt)) - This year: Rubio(well-respected NBA talent that can distribute), Johnson(healthy?), Jerome(rookie, NBA ready?)

SG - Booker - 'nuf said

SF - Last year: TJ Warren(sometimes/injured), Bridges(rookie), Oubre(late season acquisition), Jackson(headcase) - This year: Oubre(acclimated), Bridges(a year better), Johnson(rookie, NBA ready?), no Jackson(addition by subtraction)

PF - Last year: hmmm, Nobody? - This year Saric(another well respected NBA talent), Kaminsky, Spalding

C - Last year: Ayton(rookie, no facilitator, a coach that had no idea how to use him), Holmes(high energy back-up) - This year: Ayton(a year better, a PG that can pass to him, and a coach that will put him in the right places on the court), Baynes(high energy back-up)

Coach - Last year: Igor(poor communicator, not a leader, career assistant) - This year: Williams(excellent communicator, a leader, head coaching experience)

Intangibles - Last year: never heard about chemistry/questionable - This year: already hearing about a bond between Booker and Ayton. Oubre brings chemistry and drive.

How can they not be 15-20 games better than last year?

On a side note: I have watched some Ty Jerome highlights and see Steve Nash. The way he moves on the court, his shots, etc. Does anyone else see that?

I like the position by position breakdown. But I don't think we can determine our expected win total by comparing how shitty last year's team was to our expectations for this year's team. The real comparison will be to other teams around the league. Here is how we fared against each team. Who do we think we will do better against this year and by how much? ANd who will we do worse against and by how much? (I assume we can't pencil in 3 wins against the Bucks and Warriors...

To get to 35 wins, we have to gain 16 wins against these teams, and not lose any. I just don't see that happening. I think even my guess of 32 wins is overly optimistic.

Code: Select all

	W	L
ATL	0	2
BOS	1	1
BKY	0	2
CHO	0	2
CHI	0	2
CLE	1	1
DAL	2	2
DEN	1	3
DET	0	2
GSW	1	3
HOU	0	3
IND	0	2
LAC	0	4
LAL	1	3
MEM	1	2
MIA	1	1
MIL	2	0
MIN	1	2
NOP	2	2
NYK	2	0
OKC	0	4
ORL	1	1
PHI	0	2
POR	0	3
SAC	1	3
SAS	1	3
TOR	0	2
UTH	0	4
WAS	0	2

[Indy]

I'll happily go less than 30 wins on a bet.

Worm won this deal if he said 25 wins and then you gave him 29.5.

Sounds like somebody wants in on the action. I’ll give you 25 wins. Also, if the Suns end up winning 29.5 games, I’ll eat my hat.

Worm said 25 then you said I will bet you they win 30. If Worm was confident, he should stick with 25. Or at least go with <=25 Work wins, >=30 you win, and it is a draw in the middle.

For the record, I think we will be around 31 or 32.

Well, that contradicts what you said above. Sounds like you're on my side.

No my point was that Worm won the bet making process by getting you to give him an extra 4 games over his prediction, where you stood pat with yours. Not that his prediction of 25 games will be right.

[Superbone]

Worm won this deal if he said 25 wins and then you gave him 29.5.

Sounds like somebody wants in on the action. I’ll give you 25 wins. Also, if the Suns end up winning 29.5 games, I’ll eat my hat.

Worm said 25 then you said I will bet you they win 30. If Worm was confident, he should stick with 25. Or at least go with <=25 Work wins, >=30 you win, and it is a draw in the middle.

For the record, I think we will be around 31 or 32.

Well, that contradicts what you said above. Sounds like you're on my side.

No my point was that Worm won the bet making process by getting you to give him an extra 4 games over his prediction, where you stood pat with yours. Not that his prediction of 25 games will be right.

Gotcha. Always have to give a Worm a little wiggle room, no?

[carey]

Gotcha. Always have to give a Worm a little wiggle room, no?

9/10

[SunsRIt]

I'm pretty convinced the Suns will win 35 games this year. They will be better at every position for the entire year except SG:

PG - Last year: G-league level talent(who?), Johnson(late acquisition, hurt)) - This year: Rubio(well-respected NBA talent that can distribute), Johnson(healthy?), Jerome(rookie, NBA ready?)

SG - Booker - 'nuf said

SF - Last year: TJ Warren(sometimes/injured), Bridges(rookie), Oubre(late season acquisition), Jackson(headcase) - This year: Oubre(acclimated), Bridges(a year better), Johnson(rookie, NBA ready?), no Jackson(addition by subtraction)

PF - Last year: hmmm, Nobody? - This year Saric(another well respected NBA talent), Kaminsky, Spalding

C - Last year: Ayton(rookie, no facilitator, a coach that had no idea how to use him), Holmes(high energy back-up) - This year: Ayton(a year better, a PG that can pass to him, and a coach that will put him in the right places on the court), Baynes(high energy back-up)

Coach - Last year: Igor(poor communicator, not a leader, career assistant) - This year: Williams(excellent communicator, a leader, head coaching experience)

Intangibles - Last year: never heard about chemistry/questionable - This year: already hearing about a bond between Booker and Ayton. Oubre brings chemistry and drive.

How can they not be 15-20 games better than last year?

On a side note: I have watched some Ty Jerome highlights and see Steve Nash. The way he moves on the court, his shots, etc. Does anyone else see that?

I like the position by position breakdown. But I don't think we can determine our expected win total by comparing how s*** last year's team was to our expectations for this year's team. The real comparison will be to other teams around the league. Here is how we fared against each team. Who do we think we will do better against this year and by how much? ANd who will we do worse against and by how much? (I assume we can't pencil in 3 wins against the Bucks and Warriors...

To get to 35 wins, we have to gain 16 wins against these teams, and not lose any. I just don't see that happening. I think even my guess of 32 wins is overly optimistic.

Code: Select all

	W	L
ATL	0	2
BOS	1	1
BKY	0	2
CHO	0	2
CHI	0	2
CLE	1	1
DAL	2	2
DEN	1	3
DET	0	2
GSW	1	3
HOU	0	3
IND	0	2
LAC	0	4
LAL	1	3
MEM	1	2
MIA	1	1
MIL	2	0
MIN	1	2
NOP	2	2
NYK	2	0
OKC	0	4
ORL	1	1
PHI	0	2
POR	0	3
SAC	1	3
SAS	1	3
TOR	0	2
UTH	0	4
WAS	0	2

This is a great concept until you look at a couple of the teams they actually won and lost too. They beat the Bucks twice and lost to the Knicks twice. They “should” have lost both games to the Bucks and probably split with the Knicks based on percentages.

I’m just trying to have some hope for the upcoming season. Every team in the league didn’t get better in the off-season, some teams got worse. The good news is the Suns have 82 games to play this season. We will see how it goes on the court.

[Superbone]

I'm pretty convinced the Suns will win 35 games this year. They will be better at every position for the entire year except SG:

PG - Last year: G-league level talent(who?), Johnson(late acquisition, hurt)) - This year: Rubio(well-respected NBA talent that can distribute), Johnson(healthy?), Jerome(rookie, NBA ready?)

SG - Booker - 'nuf said

SF - Last year: TJ Warren(sometimes/injured), Bridges(rookie), Oubre(late season acquisition), Jackson(headcase) - This year: Oubre(acclimated), Bridges(a year better), Johnson(rookie, NBA ready?), no Jackson(addition by subtraction)

PF - Last year: hmmm, Nobody? - This year Saric(another well respected NBA talent), Kaminsky, Spalding

C - Last year: Ayton(rookie, no facilitator, a coach that had no idea how to use him), Holmes(high energy back-up) - This year: Ayton(a year better, a PG that can pass to him, and a coach that will put him in the right places on the court), Baynes(high energy back-up)

Coach - Last year: Igor(poor communicator, not a leader, career assistant) - This year: Williams(excellent communicator, a leader, head coaching experience)

Intangibles - Last year: never heard about chemistry/questionable - This year: already hearing about a bond between Booker and Ayton. Oubre brings chemistry and drive.

How can they not be 15-20 games better than last year?

On a side note: I have watched some Ty Jerome highlights and see Steve Nash. The way he moves on the court, his shots, etc. Does anyone else see that?

I like the position by position breakdown. But I don't think we can determine our expected win total by comparing how s*** last year's team was to our expectations for this year's team. The real comparison will be to other teams around the league. Here is how we fared against each team. Who do we think we will do better against this year and by how much? ANd who will we do worse against and by how much? (I assume we can't pencil in 3 wins against the Bucks and Warriors...

To get to 35 wins, we have to gain 16 wins against these teams, and not lose any. I just don't see that happening. I think even my guess of 32 wins is overly optimistic.

Code: Select all

	W	L
ATL	0	2
BOS	1	1
BKY	0	2
CHO	0	2
CHI	0	2
CLE	1	1
DAL	2	2
DEN	1	3
DET	0	2
GSW	1	3
HOU	0	3
IND	0	2
LAC	0	4
LAL	1	3
MEM	1	2
MIA	1	1
MIL	2	0
MIN	1	2
NOP	2	2
NYK	2	0
OKC	0	4
ORL	1	1
PHI	0	2
POR	0	3
SAC	1	3
SAS	1	3
TOR	0	2
UTH	0	4
WAS	0	2

This is a great concept until you look at a couple of the teams they actually won and lost too. They beat the Bucks twice and lost to the Knicks twice. They “should” have lost both games to the Bucks and probably split with the Knicks based on percentages.

I’m just trying to have some hope for the upcoming season. Every team in the league didn’t get better in the off-season, some teams got worse. The good news is the Suns have 82 games to play this season. We will see how it goes on the court.

The Suns swept both the Knicks and Bucks last season.

[JeremyG]

I could see the Suns winning 50 games this season.

[carey]

I could see the Suns winning 50 games this season.

I don't know about that, but I don't see us losing 50 games if Booker, Ayton and Rubio all stay healthy for 80% of the season or so.

[JeremyG]

I could see the Suns winning 50 games this season.

I don't know about that, but I don't see us losing 50 games if Booker, Ayton and Rubio all stay healthy for 80% of the season or so.

I admit everything would have to go right (to win 50). Great coaching with everyone on the same page, no injury issues, Ayton improving significantly, Rubio turning us into a cohesive team, etc.

It’s not like it hasn’t happened before, though. We once signed an old point guard and went from 29 wins to 62.

[Indy]

I could see the Suns winning 50 games this season.

I don't know about that, but I don't see us losing 50 games if Booker, Ayton and Rubio all stay healthy for 80% of the season or so.

Booker has only done that once in 4 years. Let's hope he gets there again this year. Hopefully he is working hard this summer on conditioning/strength.

[Indy]

I'm pretty convinced the Suns will win 35 games this year. They will be better at every position for the entire year except SG:

...

How can they not be 15-20 games better than last year?

On a side note: I have watched some Ty Jerome highlights and see Steve Nash. The way he moves on the court, his shots, etc. Does anyone else see that?

I like the position by position breakdown. But I don't think we can determine our expected win total by comparing how s*** last year's team was to our expectations for this year's team. The real comparison will be to other teams around the league. Here is how we fared against each team. Who do we think we will do better against this year and by how much? ANd who will we do worse against and by how much? (I assume we can't pencil in 3 wins against the Bucks and Warriors...

To get to 35 wins, we have to gain 16 wins against these teams, and not lose any. I just don't see that happening. I think even my guess of 32 wins is overly optimistic.

I’m just trying to have some hope for the upcoming season. Every team in the league didn’t get better in the off-season, some teams got worse. The good news is the Suns have 82 games to play this season. We will see how it goes on the court.

Even if we got an extra win against every single team in the league this year versus last year, that still might not be enough to make the playoffs in the West.

[Cap]

I'm pretty convinced the Suns will win 35 games this year. They will be better at every position for the entire year except SG:

...

How can they not be 15-20 games better than last year?

On a side note: I have watched some Ty Jerome highlights and see Steve Nash. The way he moves on the court, his shots, etc. Does anyone else see that?

I like the position by position breakdown. But I don't think we can determine our expected win total by comparing how s*** last year's team was to our expectations for this year's team. The real comparison will be to other teams around the league. Here is how we fared against each team. Who do we think we will do better against this year and by how much? ANd who will we do worse against and by how much? (I assume we can't pencil in 3 wins against the Bucks and Warriors...

To get to 35 wins, we have to gain 16 wins against these teams, and not lose any. I just don't see that happening. I think even my guess of 32 wins is overly optimistic.

I’m just trying to have some hope for the upcoming season. Every team in the league didn’t get better in the off-season, some teams got worse. The good news is the Suns have 82 games to play this season. We will see how it goes on the court.

Even if we got an extra win against every single team in the league this year versus last year, that still might not be enough to make the playoffs in the West.

Well, if we’d done that last year, we’d have had 48 wins, and the Spurs and Clippers would have had 47.

[In2ition]

If the Suns would have just had Tyler Johnson, who is a backup level PG, all year, they would have won 35 games last year. That's without a PF on the roster.

They improved every position and bench, so it's not out of the realm of possibility.

[SDC]

suns will have a better regular season record than dallas, houston, sacramento kings,

[INFORMER]

If the Suns would have just had Tyler Johnson, who is a backup level PG, all year, they would have won 35 games last year.

MVP! MVP! MVP!

[Mori Chu]

If the Suns would have just had Tyler Johnson, who is a backup level PG, all year, they would have won 35 games last year. That's without a PF on the roster.

I don't agree with this. But we certainly would have been better. It's hard to know how good we "should" have been because we clearly sat marginally injured players and didn't try our hardest to win at the end of the season. Sometimes you win more games simply because you start trying your hardest as an organization and stop "soft tanking" by resting guys who could play.

[Indy]

If the Suns would have just had Tyler Johnson, who is a backup level PG, all year, they would have won 35 games last year. That's without a PF on the roster.

I don't agree with this. But we certainly would have been better. It's hard to know how good we "should" have been because we clearly sat marginally injured players and didn't try our hardest to win at the end of the season. Sometimes you win more games simply because you start trying your hardest as an organization and stop "soft tanking" by resting guys who could play.

YEah, let's hope we didn't fuck up anyone else on the roster by not trying hard. Teaching competitors it is ok (and even encouraged) to lose can really screw you up.

[O_Gardino]

If the Suns would have just had Tyler Johnson, who is a backup level PG, all year, they would have won 35 games last year. That's without a PF on the roster.

I don't agree with this. But we certainly would have been better. It's hard to know how good we "should" have been because we clearly sat marginally injured players and didn't try our hardest to win at the end of the season. Sometimes you win more games simply because you start trying your hardest as an organization and stop "soft tanking" by resting guys who could play.

I kind of think the 8ish game stretch where we were really competitive was a combination of Igor finally playing his best 6 players, plus the addition of Tyler and Oubre, plus the fact that the rest of the league knew they could rest for 44 minutes and just pick any 4 minute stretch to beat us. Teams were really playing down to us and we caught a few over those two weeks.

[In2ition]

If the Suns would have just had Tyler Johnson, who is a backup level PG, all year, they would have won 35 games last year. That's without a PF on the roster.

I don't agree with this. But we certainly would have been better. It's hard to know how good we "should" have been because we clearly sat marginally injured players and didn't try our hardest to win at the end of the season. Sometimes you win more games simply because you start trying your hardest as an organization and stop "soft tanking" by resting guys who could play.

YEah, let's hope we didn't f*** up anyone else on the roster by not trying hard. Teaching competitors it is ok (and even encouraged) to lose can really screw you up.

In hindsight, organizationally tanking games was the dumbest thing you could possibly do, imo. It just created a terrible culture and they dropped the ball on developing those young draft picks, which was reprehensible.

[Indy]

If the Suns would have just had Tyler Johnson, who is a backup level PG, all year, they would have won 35 games last year. That's without a PF on the roster.

I don't agree with this. But we certainly would have been better. It's hard to know how good we "should" have been because we clearly sat marginally injured players and didn't try our hardest to win at the end of the season. Sometimes you win more games simply because you start trying your hardest as an organization and stop "soft tanking" by resting guys who could play.

YEah, let's hope we didn't f*** up anyone else on the roster by not trying hard. Teaching competitors it is ok (and even encouraged) to lose can really screw you up.

In hindsight, organizationally tanking games was the dumbest thing you could possibly do, imo. It just created a terrible culture and they dropped the ball on developing those young draft picks, which was reprehensible.

If you are tanking as a one-off, it could work (especially with the old lotto rules). But teaching your players it is ok to lose is just stupid as a year over year over year strategy. Ugh.