We used to be so good at drafting. What happened?Drewsprocket wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:38 pmOr just trade for someone more ready. I just saw Blazers vs Pacers and really think Aaron Holiday is gonna be a player. Why not use our good trade chips to get someone closer to being ready rather than the Draft. Clearly we don’t draft well.
Suns News: Week 13 1/21-1/26
Re: Suns News: Week 13 1/21-1/26
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann
"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass
"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass
- Flagrant Fowl
- Posts: 14302
- Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:04 am
- Location: Haeundae, Busan, South Korea
Re: Suns News: Week 13 1/21-1/26
Bobby Foam Finger started hiring and firing people.
Send me a PM if you're interested in joining the phx-suns.net fantasy basketball league.
Re: Suns News: Week 13 1/21-1/26
Do you really need to ask?In2ition wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:18 pmWe used to be so good at drafting. What happened?Drewsprocket wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:38 pmOr just trade for someone more ready. I just saw Blazers vs Pacers and really think Aaron Holiday is gonna be a player. Why not use our good trade chips to get someone closer to being ready rather than the Draft. Clearly we don’t draft well.
"Too little, too late, too unbothered."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
"Be Legendary."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
"Be Legendary."
Re: Suns News: Week 13 1/21-1/26
The Colangelos left.In2ition wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:18 pmWe used to be so good at drafting. What happened?Drewsprocket wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:38 pmOr just trade for someone more ready. I just saw Blazers vs Pacers and really think Aaron Holiday is gonna be a player. Why not use our good trade chips to get someone closer to being ready rather than the Draft. Clearly we don’t draft well.
Re: Suns News: Week 13 1/21-1/26
Did you really need to say?Cap wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:04 pmThe Colangelos left.In2ition wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:18 pmWe used to be so good at drafting. What happened?Drewsprocket wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:38 pmOr just trade for someone more ready. I just saw Blazers vs Pacers and really think Aaron Holiday is gonna be a player. Why not use our good trade chips to get someone closer to being ready rather than the Draft. Clearly we don’t draft well.
"Too little, too late, too unbothered."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
"Be Legendary."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
"Be Legendary."
- Drewsprocket
- Posts: 1911
- Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:44 pm
Re: Suns News: Week 13 1/21-1/26
Well regardless. Booker was an ace pick but that was easy to call. I’m the meantime I hope JJ accelerates things and makes some smart moves to get us back into the race for 8th spot. Too many injuries right now.
Re: Suns News: Week 13 1/21-1/26
Booker was easy to call? He didn’t even start on his college team. He was the sixth man.Drewsprocket wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:06 pmWell regardless. Booker was an ace pick but that was easy to call. I’m the meantime I hope JJ accelerates things and makes some smart moves to get us back into the race for 8th spot. Too many injuries right now.
Re: Suns News: Week 13 1/21-1/26
Check the draft day thread. Everybody was saying he was the obvious choice, and there was no second choice. Doesn’t mean we knew quite how good he would be, but he’s the guy everybody here would have picked.SunsRIt wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:53 amBooker was easy to call? He didn’t even start on his college team. He was the sixth man.Drewsprocket wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:06 pmWell regardless. Booker was an ace pick but that was easy to call. I’m the meantime I hope JJ accelerates things and makes some smart moves to get us back into the race for 8th spot. Too many injuries right now.
Re: Suns News: Week 13 1/21-1/26
He was the easy choice for us, but so was Brandon Clarke last year and for most so was Luka the year before. That being said, I agree with you.Cap wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 6:15 amCheck the draft day thread. Everybody was saying he was the obvious choice, and there was no second choice. Doesn’t mean we knew quite how good he would be, but he’s the guy everybody here would have picked.SunsRIt wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:53 amBooker was easy to call? He didn’t even start on his college team. He was the sixth man.Drewsprocket wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:06 pmWell regardless. Booker was an ace pick but that was easy to call. I’m the meantime I hope JJ accelerates things and makes some smart moves to get us back into the race for 8th spot. Too many injuries right now.
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann
"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass
"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass
Re: Suns News: Week 13 1/21-1/26
We knew he would be a good shooter for us. I don't remember anyone who knew he would be this good off the dribble.
I would have messed up 2 or 3 of our picks over the last few years. How is me + youtube better than a professional staff?
I would have messed up 2 or 3 of our picks over the last few years. How is me + youtube better than a professional staff?
The league needs heroes, villains... and clowns. -- Aztec Sunsfan
Re: Suns News: Week 13 1/21-1/26
The thing that drives me crazy about our front office over the years is how we seem to manage "risk." The best example is in 2016 when we drafted Chriss followed by Bender. Both of them were similar from a position and risk perspective: young PFs who have upside but could bust. They both needed minutes, a clear role, mentorship, and patience. We waffled back and forth between them, often starting / playing Chriss but then getting frustrated by his many limitations and switching to Bender for stretches. Neither had a clear picture of their role or whether they'd get minutes. Neither seemed to get much mentorship or big man coaching. And then, of course, they both busted. If you have two lottery 1st-rounders in that draft, why not take one risky player like Chriss and then one safer / more likely hit such as Sabonis? Or at least draft players at two different positions, for Pete's sake?
Then you look at the 2017 draft where we picked Josh Jackson. We *knew* he couldn't shoot, and we desperately needed shooting and a PG. So why the heck do you take an "athlete" rather than a stud PG like De'Aaron Fox? Then in the second round, we have the #32 pick and use it on Davon Reed (who?). Jordan Bell is just sitting there, and he's almost certain to become an NBA rotation player, but we pass on him.
The 2018 draft is mostly defensible though in retrospect severely damaging. We take Ayton #1, we've talked that one to death. We then trade to get Bridges at #10 when we could have had SGA; oof. Lots of folks liked SGA going into the draft, and that one hurts, though I can understand it given that Bridges projected as a 3-and-D stud and we needed that. In the 2nd round we take Okobo, and honestly for a 2nd-round pick I think he's been pretty impressive, so I don't fault us there.
Our drafts get really ugly when you start to look at them combined with our FA decisions, like trading for Melton when we already had Okobo, or getting Josh Jackson when we already had TJ Warren and other SFs, or drafting Bridges when we already had Warren and Jackson, on and on. Just throwing sh*t at the wall to see what sticks.
Then you look at the 2017 draft where we picked Josh Jackson. We *knew* he couldn't shoot, and we desperately needed shooting and a PG. So why the heck do you take an "athlete" rather than a stud PG like De'Aaron Fox? Then in the second round, we have the #32 pick and use it on Davon Reed (who?). Jordan Bell is just sitting there, and he's almost certain to become an NBA rotation player, but we pass on him.
The 2018 draft is mostly defensible though in retrospect severely damaging. We take Ayton #1, we've talked that one to death. We then trade to get Bridges at #10 when we could have had SGA; oof. Lots of folks liked SGA going into the draft, and that one hurts, though I can understand it given that Bridges projected as a 3-and-D stud and we needed that. In the 2nd round we take Okobo, and honestly for a 2nd-round pick I think he's been pretty impressive, so I don't fault us there.
Our drafts get really ugly when you start to look at them combined with our FA decisions, like trading for Melton when we already had Okobo, or getting Josh Jackson when we already had TJ Warren and other SFs, or drafting Bridges when we already had Warren and Jackson, on and on. Just throwing sh*t at the wall to see what sticks.
- The Bobster
- Posts: 6850
- Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:04 pm
- Location: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Suns News: Week 13 1/21-1/26
No, Ayton was the consensus #1, not Doncic. in hindsight you might say he was the obvious pick, but he wasn't the consensus #1.In2ition wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:21 amHe was the easy choice for us, but so was Brandon Clarke last year and for most so was Luka the year before. That being said, I agree with you.Cap wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 6:15 amCheck the draft day thread. Everybody was saying he was the obvious choice, and there was no second choice. Doesn’t mean we knew quite how good he would be, but he’s the guy everybody here would have picked.SunsRIt wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:53 amBooker was easy to call? He didn’t even start on his college team. He was the sixth man.Drewsprocket wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:06 pmWell regardless. Booker was an ace pick but that was easy to call. I’m the meantime I hope JJ accelerates things and makes some smart moves to get us back into the race for 8th spot. Too many injuries right now.
And Clarke was considered to be a mid-first, not a "easy choice" at the Suns spot. He was the darling of the analytics crowd, but not rated as highly by most people.
Author of The Basketball Draft Fact Book: A History of Professional Basketball's College Drafts
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695
Re: Suns News: Week 13 1/21-1/26
Idk, all the Suns fans that I knew(maybe I blocked out the people that liked someone else) except David Kevin favored Clarke. Seemed like the obvious choice when they moved down to 11 to me.The Bobster wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:53 amNo, Ayton was the consensus #1, not Doncic. in hindsight you might say he was the obvious pick, but he wasn't the consensus #1.In2ition wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:21 amHe was the easy choice for us, but so was Brandon Clarke last year and for most so was Luka the year before. That being said, I agree with you.Cap wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 6:15 amCheck the draft day thread. Everybody was saying he was the obvious choice, and there was no second choice. Doesn’t mean we knew quite how good he would be, but he’s the guy everybody here would have picked.SunsRIt wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:53 amBooker was easy to call? He didn’t even start on his college team. He was the sixth man.Drewsprocket wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:06 pmWell regardless. Booker was an ace pick but that was easy to call. I’m the meantime I hope JJ accelerates things and makes some smart moves to get us back into the race for 8th spot. Too many injuries right now.
And Clarke was considered to be a mid-first, not a "easy choice" at the Suns spot. He was the darling of the analytics crowd, but not rated as highly by most people.
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann
"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass
"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass
Re: Suns News: Week 13 1/21-1/26
ShelC was not a fan, but even he said he would have been ok with Clarke at 11.
The league needs heroes, villains... and clowns. -- Aztec Sunsfan
Re: Suns News: Week 13 1/21-1/26
Doncic wasn’t even the #2 pick. He was picked #3 by the Hawks.
In four years, you don’t have to vote again. We’ll have it fixed so good, you’re not gonna have to vote.
Re: Suns News: Week 13 1/21-1/26
Yea it was when people were talking about Clarke at 6 where I was like "chilllllll".
With Doncic, if you're drafting by what the consensus is saying you shouldn't have a job in a front office.
With Doncic, if you're drafting by what the consensus is saying you shouldn't have a job in a front office.
Re: Suns News: Week 13 1/21-1/26
I am a big Jerry C fan and have been for years, but we were never as good as it might seem. I have been a Suns fan since 1976. Yes, we blew some early draft picks, but those are the ones that are most obvious to blow. Jerry C had few high draft picks, but when he had them, his record was not so great either.Cap wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:04 pmThe Colangelos left.In2ition wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:18 pmWe used to be so good at drafting. What happened?Drewsprocket wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:38 pmOr just trade for someone more ready. I just saw Blazers vs Pacers and really think Aaron Holiday is gonna be a player. Why not use our good trade chips to get someone closer to being ready rather than the Draft. Clearly we don’t draft well.
Ron Lee (10th), Marty Byrnes (23rd), Kyle Macy (25th), David Thirdkill (15th), Jay Humphries (13th), Ed Pinckney (10th), William Bedford (6th yuck!), Armon Gilliam (2nd, yuck!), Tim Perry (7th), Oliver Miller (22nd)
And then there is Malcolm Mackey, Mario Bennett, Big Jake, Casey Jacobsen, and Zarko.
What Colangelo was good at was making opportunistic trades and drawing free agents.
- Drewsprocket
- Posts: 1911
- Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:44 pm
Re: Suns News: Week 13 1/21-1/26
Everyone knew he was the best shooter in the draft. I would have lost my sh!t if they didn’t draft him.SunsRIt wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:53 amBooker was easy to call? He didn’t even start on his college team. He was the sixth man.Drewsprocket wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:06 pmWell regardless. Booker was an ace pick but that was easy to call. I’m the meantime I hope JJ accelerates things and makes some smart moves to get us back into the race for 8th spot. Too many injuries right now.
Re: Suns News: Week 13 1/21-1/26
I wanted Myles Turner, but when he didn’t make it to 13, Booker was the obvious pick. No one thought he’d be this though.
Re: Suns News: Week 13 1/21-1/26
It's going to kill me that McDoofus will claim competence by his drafting of who might just become the greatest Sun in history in Booker.
Guy couldn't spot talent or a roster issue if they slapped him in the face.
Guy couldn't spot talent or a roster issue if they slapped him in the face.