Free Agency Thread

[INFORMER]

[INFORMER]

Great move for the Celtics. I like Daniel Theis, but they needed more at the 5.

[ShelC]

Kelly at 14.375M vs Crowder at 10M? I would take Kelly every time.

For a single year? Of course, but year two and three get trickier: We have Crowder again for $10, while Kelly is up for a new contract.

$17 a year for Oubre? Crowder adds up to $30 vs $48 for Kelly

20? Then its goes $30 vs $54

Kelly leaves? If the CP3 trade it’s in place, we are out of cap space to replace him, if not, still unlikely and very risky to bet on it, given the crazy contracts we are witnessing.

Bingo.

And Kelly didn’t play the way we need him to play on this team, the role we need from our role players. We need low usage high IQ shooters to surround DA CP and Book

I am not talking about whether I would have traded Rubio/Kelly for CP3. I am saying that Kelly at his current salary does way more per dollar for us than Crowder.

And the role that we needed from him? It was energy and athleticism and crunch time scorer. Who had a better 4Q 3P% on our team? Or crunch-time scoring? We had nobody on the team you could count on in crunch time besides Book. And when teams ran everyone and the kitchen sink at him, or on nights when he just didn't have it, we lose. Kelly was that punch we needed when Book didn't/couldn't do it.

But he is gone and it is what the James thought was needed to make our team better. I am fine with that. I just really hope what we have seen so far is not the end of his plans for this season. Because it looks like we got significantly better at PG, and no improvement elsewhere.

No additional backup behind Book/CP3.

No additional front court depth.

And we down-graded in talent (Kelly to Crowder).

If you are going to go all-in on a 35 year old PG making 40M for the next 2 years, then do it. But stop with the half-measures. We only have the next two season before we are completely in cap hell and will be completely hamstrung. With only Ayton and Mikal and Book, we will be in the +90M/year range.

I will cross my fingers and hope to Kahless that our young guys can play +72 games this year the way they did for 8 games in Orlando. And that Book takes another leap. And Paul doesn't fall off. And Dario doesn't play the way he did 90% of last year. And Smith makes all the draft experts look stupid. And Ayton lives up to his tattoo and mouth.

All of that happens, and we will be in a great spot and we can discuss which team we want to face in the western finals.

The downgrade in talent from Oubre to Crowder is offset IMO because we have Bridges and Cam ready to fill those minutes - Bridges being better at defense than Oubre and showing improvement offensively in Orlando; Cam a lights-out 3pt shooter showing better off-the-dribble game and overall defense in Orlando. So that's internal improvement and I think the expectation is that they do continue to grow and play as consistently well as they did in Orlando. Improvement doesn't have to just come from FA signings or trades in that specific instance. If we didn't have Bridges or Cam and just traded Oubre to sign an older, cheaper Crowder than yea I'd be more concerned.

And with Paul, we significantly upgraded offensively and defensively at the PG spot, so Oubre's shooting and 4th qtr/crunch time play is maybe now passed onto CP3.

We will miss Oubre's slashing if Bridges and Cam don't take additional steps in those areas. We're still not overly athletic on the wings and we'll need Crowder to bring that gamechanging defensive effort and energy in Oubre's place (which I think he can). But I think we're better now overall and have some better balance even if we don't sign anyone else. Cam and Jevon should be further along and I'm excited about Smith bringing what he can to the frontcourt.

[ShelC]

Great move for the Celtics. I like Daniel Theis, but they needed more at the 5.

Yea real solid addition, typical Cs type of player/signing. He's getting the full MLE.

[specialsauce]

Kelly at 14.375M vs Crowder at 10M? I would take Kelly every time.

For a single year? Of course, but year two and three get trickier: We have Crowder again for $10, while Kelly is up for a new contract.

$17 a year for Oubre? Crowder adds up to $30 vs $48 for Kelly

20? Then its goes $30 vs $54

Kelly leaves? If the CP3 trade it’s in place, we are out of cap space to replace him, if not, still unlikely and very risky to bet on it, given the crazy contracts we are witnessing.

Bingo.

And Kelly didn’t play the way we need him to play on this team, the role we need from our role players. We need low usage high IQ shooters to surround DA CP and Book

I am not talking about whether I would have traded Rubio/Kelly for CP3. I am saying that Kelly at his current salary does way more per dollar for us than Crowder.

And the role that we needed from him? It was energy and athleticism and crunch time scorer. Who had a better 4Q 3P% on our team? Or crunch-time scoring? We had nobody on the team you could count on in crunch time besides Book. And when teams ran everyone and the kitchen sink at him, or on nights when he just didn't have it, we lose. Kelly was that punch we needed when Book didn't/couldn't do it.

But he is gone and it is what the James thought was needed to make our team better. I am fine with that. I just really hope what we have seen so far is not the end of his plans for this season. Because it looks like we got significantly better at PG, and no improvement elsewhere.

No additional backup behind Book/CP3.

No additional front court depth.

And we down-graded in talent (Kelly to Crowder).

If you are going to go all-in on a 35 year old PG making 40M for the next 2 years, then do it. But stop with the half-measures. We only have the next two season before we are completely in cap hell and will be completely hamstrung. With only Ayton and Mikal and Book, we will be in the +90M/year range.

I will cross my fingers and hope to Kahless that our young guys can play +72 games this year the way they did for 8 games in Orlando. And that Book takes another leap. And Paul doesn't fall off. And Dario doesn't play the way he did 90% of last year. And Smith makes all the draft experts look stupid. And Ayton lives up to his tattoo and mouth.

All of that happens, and we will be in a great spot and we can discuss which team we want to face in the western finals.

The downgrade in talent from Oubre to Crowder is offset IMO because we have Bridges and Cam ready to fill those minutes - Bridges being better at defense than Oubre and showing improvement offensively in Orlando; Cam a lights-out 3pt shooter showing better off-the-dribble game and overall defense in Orlando. So that's internal improvement and I think the expectation is that they do continue to grow and play as consistently well as they did in Orlando. Improvement doesn't have to just come from FA signings or trades in that specific instance. If we didn't have Bridges or Cam and just traded Oubre to sign an older, cheaper Crowder than yea I'd be more concerned.

And with Paul, we significantly upgraded offensively and defensively at the PG spot, so Oubre's shooting and 4th qtr/crunch time play is maybe now passed onto CP3.

We will miss Oubre's slashing if Bridges and Cam don't take additional steps in those areas. We're still not overly athletic on the wings and we'll need Crowder to bring that gamechanging defensive effort and energy in Oubre's place (which I think he can). But I think we're better now overall and have some better balance even if we don't sign anyone else. Cam and Jevon should be further along and I'm excited about Smith bringing what he can to the frontcourt.

Not all energy is equal. Kelly’s energy was often wasted energy or at the expense of playing sound defense and staying in front of his man. Bridges on the other hand is an incredibly active player and does not waste a step. And he certainly doesn’t do push-ups.

[specialsauce]

And I think it’s telling that OKC tossed him to GS right away. He’s not old. He’s not a vet. He’s young and would fit fine with the core of SGA if they felt strongly about him.

That’s now 3 teams that have passed on him in 2 years.

It's telling that OKC got rid of him...but it's not telling that a championship organization TRADED FOR HIM? Hmmm...

Sure, they need some scoring after Klays injury. The same organization that traded for your favorite PG, DLo. How long did that last?

[INFORMER]

And I think it’s telling that OKC tossed him to GS right away. He’s not old. He’s not a vet. He’s young and would fit fine with the core of SGA if they felt strongly about him.

That’s now 3 teams that have passed on him in 2 years.

It's telling that OKC got rid of him...but it's not telling that a championship organization TRADED FOR HIM? Hmmm...

Sure, they need some scoring after Klays injury. The same organization that traded for your favorite PG, DLo. How long did that last?

Great. It was speculated as soon as they got him that they would flip him. And they did. They got Wiggins and a 1st round pick. And Wiggins has played great for them.

[ShelC]

The Ws were supposedly targeting Oubre before Klay's injury.

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warri ... ade-target

[INFORMER]

The Ws were supposedly targeting Oubre before Klay's injury.

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warri ... ade-target

Yep. I wanted the #2 pick (to get Toppin) but I had no desire to give them Oubre for it; I thought Oubre would be perfect for them.

Oh well.

[INFORMER]

Let's also not be intellectually dishonest about what is happening in OKC; they want draft picks and are trading everyone they can for them. They aren't concerned about the product that they will field in the 20-21 season.

[specialsauce]

And I think it’s telling that OKC tossed him to GS right away. He’s not old. He’s not a vet. He’s young and would fit fine with the core of SGA if they felt strongly about him.

That’s now 3 teams that have passed on him in 2 years.

It's telling that OKC got rid of him...but it's not telling that a championship organization TRADED FOR HIM? Hmmm...

Sure, they need some scoring after Klays injury. The same organization that traded for your favorite PG, DLo. How long did that last?

Great. It was speculated as soon as they got him that they would flip him. And they did. They got Wiggins and a 1st round pick. And Wiggins has played great for them.

We can disagree on the albatross of a contract that is Wiggins and the value of what they got.

My point is just because GS spent after someone doesn’t mean they are a great player or that GS loves them even. Let’s see them extend him

[O_Gardino]

We needed a thicker 3/4 in the worst way. Mikal and Cam are slighter/thinner and so was Oubre. And even tho our guys are good defenders, we were lacking some toughness and physicality. CP and Crowder bring that. If Baynes is back, we're that much tougher. Saric plays tough but isn't really scaring anyone. DA is meh. I'm hoping Smith can be more of an imposing threat around the rim. But Crowder can dig in and body up a LeBron, Kawhi/PG, Luka, Melo, Tatum and make their lives harder with his strength. He can bang and can switch off effectively. Even Giannis had trouble with Crowder's strength and lower center of gravity.

I do like the distinction between Bridges and Crowder. Crowder isn’t quick enough to defend guys like Murray, Beal. We saw that as he’s tried to defend Booker over the years, but he matches up well with the bigger wings like Luka and Lebron. Bridges Can take the quicker guards.

You guys nailed it. He gives the Suns a different look and something that we really needed. If his shot is falling, we will love him. If not, it'll feel like Saric again.

[specialsauce]

Let's also not be intellectually dishonest about what is happening in OKC; they want draft picks and are trading everyone they can for them. They aren't concerned about the product that they will field in the 20-21 season.

They traded their vets. KO is a young player. They didn’t trade SGA. If they valued KO they would look to build around KO and SGA.

Clearly they don’t see him as a young player worth keeping and developing.

If we’re being “intellectually honest.”

[O_Gardino]

I'm still fantasizing about getting Teague somehow. He's still available, right?

[INFORMER]

My point is just because GS spent after someone doesn’t mean they are a great player or that GS loves them even. Let’s see them extend him

They traded their vets. KO is a young player. They didn’t trade SGA. If they valued KO they would look to build around KO and SGA.

Clearly they don’t see him as a young player worth keeping and developing.

Saucey - SGA and Oubre are in two different places in their careers. SGA is on a rookie deal. Oubre is about to move on to his third contract and will be looking for a raise; that doesn't exactly fit with an org that is doing a wholesale rebuild and has historically been cash-strapped.

[ShelC]

[specialsauce]

My point is just because GS spent after someone doesn’t mean they are a great player or that GS loves them even. Let’s see them extend him

They traded their vets. KO is a young player. They didn’t trade SGA. If they valued KO they would look to build around KO and SGA.

Clearly they don’t see him as a young player worth keeping and developing.

Saucey - SGA and Oubre are in two different places in their careers. SGA is on a rookie deal. Oubre is about to move on to his third contract and will be looking for a raise; that doesn't exactly fit with an org that is doing a wholesale rebuild and has historically been cash-strapped.

Sure they are 2 years apart in age though. So my point stands- they could be the new core they could build around. Reupping Kelly at 20M/ year would not hurt them. They have to fill the roster.

[O_Gardino]

Teague is going to look really good playing for Stevens then cash in next summer.

[Shabazz]

I had no interest in Teague.

Bring in Shaq Harrison, Jordan McRae and Harry Giles.

Re-sign Dario and Jevon.

Call it a day.

[Shabazz]

I’d also be happy to welcome back Baynes if the market dries up on him.