Suns News: Playoffs Edition

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.
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jonh
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Re: Suns News: Playoffs Edition

Post by jonh »

I went back and looked at Ayton's stats this series, and I am changing my answer to whether Ayton will be paid the max. He will absolutely be paid the max. He is currently averaging 19.8 points and 13.5 rebounds, a block and a steal a game in the playoffs. He is:
  • 4th in the leage in Win Shares (2nd in Win Shares/48 minutes)
    4th in PER
    1st in defensive rating
    1st in field goal percentage (.808!!!!)
In addition, despite being ridden hard by Paul and Booker all season, he has kept an incredibly receptive and willing attitude (publicly at least). How rare is it in the NBA for a player with so much potential to display such a willingness to learn/improve through criticism?

Maybe a more important question is whether we have a sense about Ayton's ability to maintain this level of play. If this is peak Ayton (not sure if that's the case, but assuming it is)--I have no idea how many games a season to expect Playoff Ayton Performances.

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Nodack
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Re: Suns News: Playoffs Edition

Post by Nodack »

I think Ayton is going to be a Sun for awhile. They didn’t draft him #1 just to let some other team like the Lakers snatch him up after he has been broken in.

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Superbone
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Re: Suns News: Playoffs Edition

Post by Superbone »

Nice little article from Dave King about the series:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/yo ... li=BBnbfcL
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Superbone
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Re: Suns News: Playoffs Edition

Post by Superbone »

Nobody outside our team believed in us before the season started and now the playoffs have been no different with almost all the pundits choosing the Lakers to win this first round series. Let's continue the trend of surprising the non-believers. If we can knock off the defending champs in the first round, that would be huge!
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In2ition
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Re: Suns News: Playoffs Edition

Post by In2ition »

INFORMER wrote:
Mon May 31, 2021 7:34 pm
Joe was a unique situation. He wanted to be the man and asked for us to not match the contract. We made the choice to let him leave, and were in the conference finals the following season.

So I don't think that is some cautionary tale for how to handle Ayton.
I feel like this is a bit of rewriting history. Joe was pissed that he wasn't extended and took that grudge into the next season, while adding on to it some manufactured slight about being the 3rd or 4th wheel. Joe said as much at the time. This is what happens all the time and should be a cautionary tale for how to handle Ayton. He's going to get a max extension either way. Now, if you think he's reasonable about the strategy, then you can talk to him prior about the plan to use the money available that could come free from CP3's money coming off the books. I think this is both short sighted and flirting with disaster.
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann
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JeremyG
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Re: Suns News: Playoffs Edition

Post by JeremyG »

Indy wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:27 am
Yeah, should we? No. We should wait a year. But I bet we will.

It would be great if we could work out a VERY front loaded extension with Paul and no extend DA/Mikal until next year after a huge chunk of Paul's contract goes away.
But the extensions wouldn't kick in until the next season anyway. Or do you mean so we could free up cap space?
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.

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Indy
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Re: Suns News: Playoffs Edition

Post by Indy »

JeremyG wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 11:59 am
Indy wrote:
Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:27 am
Yeah, should we? No. We should wait a year. But I bet we will.

It would be great if we could work out a VERY front loaded extension with Paul and no extend DA/Mikal until next year after a huge chunk of Paul's contract goes away.
But the extensions wouldn't kick in until the next season anyway. Or do you mean so we could free up cap space?
Right. Paul would get his pay day in 21-22 season while Mikal and DA wait until 22-23.

And if Paul opts out, we can sign other players this off-season (CAM PAYNE!!!) and then still go over the cap to retain Paul? Or is that not how it works? Because we have 125M on the books next year (with Paul) already, and that is with no Payne/Craig/Nader/Moore/Gallo/Frank.

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specialsauce
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Re: Suns News: Playoffs Edition

Post by specialsauce »

One thing is for sure, our charity contributions to Jevon need to be transferred to another organization. We can't afford that next year, not if we intend to re-sign Payne and round out the bench.

It's real nice of Sarver to give JC more than the minimum, cause he certainly wasn't getting more than that from any other team in the league.

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bajanguy008
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Re: Suns News: Playoffs Edition

Post by bajanguy008 »

Ok here's my take on Ayton
I've said my bit about how I believe he continues to mature and that has made me pay more attention to his sound bytes. I used to probably just smh before because we all know DA could talk a real good game in the off-season or what's not and drive Saucy crazy among others :lol:

Anyways, just about every quote I've seen of him recently about playing style he speaks about Gobert. I believe that him and his camp sees that as the blueprint and that he truly has embraced the role may it be also Monty showing him his value. Screen assists, rim runs, rolling hard to force the D to rotate and open things up for the shooters even if you might not get the ball. When you do get it finish strong, if not work the glass.

If you listen to a DA post game this season there is usually a Monty quotes and mentioning some of those things. "I'm not concerned about touches, I have my job to do as the anchor on D and I just want to be making winning plays" is the kinda response he gives most of the time and I actually believe him

Last article I saw he said he likes to think of himself as a mix of a little Gobert and a little Adebayo. I know he's proud of his passing and ability to guard smalls re:Bam and as for Rudy he is indeed our anchor but just needs to challenge at the rim more. I don't think it's coincidence that both of them aren't high usage players and guess what they also both got paid. So I just believe DA is fine with his role especially as he sees in those other two that he doesn't need to be "Embiid" to get paid.

Then also if there's one thing that he surely still just a young kid is the business of things. I know he is all for the we are a family, we are brothers, Monty like a father figure and he never had such a relationship with a coach. So that mindset he has things will have to go terribly wrong with the $$ talks for him to want to leave IMO

Maybe all these high character guys Jones bringing in have an old school mentality about their contracts and the team, keeping the band together :oops: :oops:
Who knows lol but yea that's my take
SUNS Fan from the Land of Sun, Sea and Sand ;)

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bajanguy008
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Re: Suns News: Playoffs Edition

Post by bajanguy008 »

Seen that quote circulating alot this season but most the players root for one another cause they understand the work
Luv to see it

SUNS Fan from the Land of Sun, Sea and Sand ;)

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Superbone
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Re: Suns News: Playoffs Edition

Post by Superbone »

bajanguy008 wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:05 pm
Seen that quote circulating alot this season but most the players root for one another cause they understand the work
Luv to see it
Not to mention they both went to the same college, Murray State.
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Wormwood
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Re: Suns News: Playoffs Edition

Post by Wormwood »

Ayton is becoming (surprisingly) a very good defensive player now. He finished 5th among centers in DRPM, and 11th overall in the NBA. Coming out of college, he had a rep of lack of focus and commitment on D, and that was the biggest knock on him. In his first few seasons, he had a lot of bad habits, and didn't stay focused. He often got lost and just stood there.

He's responded well to CP3 riding him (again, surprisingly) this season and it seems to have helped with his focus. He has the length and footspeed to step out to the perimeter if need be and defend guys behind the three point line, which is a heck of a luxury with your center.

I think winning this series will go a long ways towards convincing him to stay. If we make it to the second round, he's going to draw Jokic, which is about a tough a job as possible for a center defensively. He becomes responsible for shutting down Denver's primary offensive initiator.

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Superbone
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Re: Suns News: Playoffs Edition

Post by Superbone »

It’s about time you got here, Worm! But I’m not use to the optimistic tone. :P
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Superbone
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Re: Suns News: Playoffs Edition

Post by Superbone »

I can’t believe what I just watched. ESPN has a show called Highly Questionable and this dude had the guts to say that the NBA should send a cooler into this series as it wouldn’t be good to have a bunch of Mountain Standard time teams remaining in the Western Conference playoffs (Suns/Nuggets/Jazz/Mavs). I guess I shouldn’t be surprised as this crap is in line with the name of the show.
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Cap
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Re: Suns News: Playoffs Edition

Post by Cap »

Superbone wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:15 pm
I can’t believe what I just watched. ESPN has a show called Highly Questionable and this dude had the guts to say that the NBA should send a cooler into this series as it wouldn’t be good to have a bunch of Mountain Standard time teams remaining in the Western Conference playoffs (Suns/Nuggets/Jazz/Mavs). I guess I shouldn’t be surprised as this crap is in line with the name of the show.
The Clips are going to beat the Mavs.

Probably.

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Superbone
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Re: Suns News: Playoffs Edition

Post by Superbone »

Cap wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:24 pm
Superbone wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:15 pm
I can’t believe what I just watched. ESPN has a show called Highly Questionable and this dude had the guts to say that the NBA should send a cooler into this series as it wouldn’t be good to have a bunch of Mountain Standard time teams remaining in the Western Conference playoffs (Suns/Nuggets/Jazz/Mavs). I guess I shouldn’t be surprised as this crap is in line with the name of the show.
The Clips are going to beat the Mavs.

Probably.
I don’t care who beats who. You don’t tamper with the results to get a desired outcome.
"Be Legendary."

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Cap
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Re: Suns News: Playoffs Edition

Post by Cap »

Superbone wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:28 pm
Cap wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:24 pm
Superbone wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:15 pm
I can’t believe what I just watched. ESPN has a show called Highly Questionable and this dude had the guts to say that the NBA should send a cooler into this series as it wouldn’t be good to have a bunch of Mountain Standard time teams remaining in the Western Conference playoffs (Suns/Nuggets/Jazz/Mavs). I guess I shouldn’t be surprised as this crap is in line with the name of the show.
The Clips are going to beat the Mavs.

Probably.
I don’t care who beats who. You don’t tamper with the results to get a desired outcome.
True. Just pointing out that even the premise is HQ.

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3rdside
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Re: Suns News: Playoffs Edition

Post by 3rdside »

Superbone wrote:
Cap wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:24 pm
Superbone wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:15 pm
I can’t believe what I just watched. ESPN has a show called Highly Questionable and this dude had the guts to say that the NBA should send a cooler into this series as it wouldn’t be good to have a bunch of Mountain Standard time teams remaining in the Western Conference playoffs (Suns/Nuggets/Jazz/Mavs). I guess I shouldn’t be surprised as this crap is in line with the name of the show.
The Clips are going to beat the Mavs.

Probably.
I don’t care who beats who. You don’t tamper with the results to get a desired outcome.
Probably one for the politics board but I think it’s fair to say money has sadly polluted the ideal of doing what’s right in America (not just there of course, but no doubt it’s at the forefront of this corruption), so I’m sure some sports results will have been manipulated somewhere along the lines.

In a financially testing time with Covid, it’s potentially the perfect scenario for sport organisation refereeing malfeasance.

BlaCkAdDa
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Re: Suns News: Playoffs Edition

Post by BlaCkAdDa »

DA is getting max, no question.. i thought that before the playoffs and it's going to happen now... we aint gambling with his future here.

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Suns_Dave
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Re: Suns News: Playoffs Edition

Post by Suns_Dave »

INFORMER wrote:
Mon May 31, 2021 7:34 pm
Joe was a unique situation. He wanted to be the man and asked for us to not match the contract. We made the choice to let him leave, and were in the conference finals the following season.

So I don't think that is some cautionary tale for how to handle Ayton.
This version of events leaves out some key details. Let’s not forget JJ was excited to re-sign with Phoenix by all counts, and only soured on the idea once Sarver decided his first solo NBA contract negotiation was the right moment to play hardball. And we know Joe took offense.

We also know the concept of wanting to be the man rather than a “decoy in the corner for Steve” formed over the intervening season. Sarver’s mishandling of that initial negotiation—treating it like a bank transaction while discounting the person/ego at the center of it—is *the reason* JJ entered free agency.

And it very likely cost us a championship.

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