Biden Administration misc. activities

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Mori Chu
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Re: Biden Administration misc. activities

Post by Mori Chu »

This thread has kind of taken some twists and turns. Several posts were talking about religion. I believe strongly in freedom of religion and tolerance for those of different faiths. I don't like when Muslims are mistreated or treated like terrorists or non-Americans. I don't like when Christians are looked down on by some atheist liberals. I don't like when atheists or agnostics are excluded or forgotten in discussions of faith. I don't like when American Jews are lumped in with Israel and assumed to be somehow "loyal" to that country rather than the US. I don't like when faith is explicitly mixed with government, such as saying "under God" in the Pledge, or assuming that America is a Christian nation.

I also really don't like when people go deep-diving in holy texts to try to shit on somebody's religion. Yes, if you dig through the Christian Bible it has some zany stuff in it, like you can't wear shoes past 3pm on a Tuesday and you should slap your wife with a fish or whatever crazy thing you can find. And yes, the Quran says some discriminatory things about how to treat women or how passionately to defend the faith, etc. Very few people take these books 100% literally and follow every sentence written in them.

In general I'm very concerned by how little folks seem to show basic human compassion for the other people around them in this country, especially if the other person is from a different group (religion, political party, race). Most religions preach compassion and care for each other. We should start practicing it.

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Superbone
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Re: Biden Administration misc. activities

Post by Superbone »

Mori Chu wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:04 am
Most religions preach compassion and care for each other. We should start practicing it.
How about we practice it because it's the right thing to do as a human being.
"It should burn. It'll probably burn forever. But last season is done." - James Jones

"I want to be who I think I am." - Frank Kaminsky

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3rdside
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Re: Biden Administration misc. activities

Post by 3rdside »

Mori Chu wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:04 am
This thread has kind of taken some twists and turns. Several posts were talking about religion. I believe strongly in freedom of religion and tolerance for those of different faiths. I don't like when Muslims are mistreated or treated like terrorists or non-Americans. I don't like when Christians are looked down on by some atheist liberals. I don't like when atheists or agnostics are excluded or forgotten in discussions of faith. I don't like when American Jews are lumped in with Israel and assumed to be somehow "loyal" to that country rather than the US. I don't like when faith is explicitly mixed with government, such as saying "under God" in the Pledge, or assuming that America is a Christian nation.

I also really don't like when people go deep-diving in holy texts to try to shit on somebody's religion. Yes, if you dig through the Christian Bible it has some zany stuff in it, like you can't wear shoes past 3pm on a Tuesday and you should slap your wife with a fish or whatever crazy thing you can find. And yes, the Quran says some discriminatory things about how to treat women or how passionately to defend the faith, etc. Very few people take these books 100% literally and follow every sentence written in them.

In general I'm very concerned by how little folks seem to show basic human compassion for the other people around them in this country, especially if the other person is from a different group (religion, political party, race). Most religions preach compassion and care for each other. We should start practicing it.
The wikipedia stuff I posted about Muslims was a little inflammatory, but it was in response to Indy blanket shutting down Sam Harris, a Harvard educated neuroscientist and one of the world's foremost intellectuals, not least on matters of Islam, rather than designed to stir up feelings of dislike against Muslims, although I acknowledge it could have that effect.

But to quell the accusation that I'm just digging up anachronistic dirt:

- Charlie Hebdo, and similar *hypersensitivity to perceived mocking of Mohammed* crimes are real and ongoing.
- Homosexuality is still punishable by death in 13 Muslim countries.
- Jihad inspired terrorist crimes still happen regularly in Europe
- Women are openly and actively repressed, and are still publicly flogged and stoned to death in some countries

So if Sam Harris says it's the motherload of bad ideas, it's likely worth believing him.

None of this applies to how to treat people in the US or UK of course - one should treat everyone with respect - but should, imo, have some bearing on immigration policies, and there's nothing racist about that I don't think - it's seems to be more a case of being a realist about these things.

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3rdside
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Re: Biden Administration misc. activities

Post by 3rdside »

Germany's acceptance of up to 1m Muslims is often cited as evidence of a success story of the mass immigration of Muslims:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... on-europe/

But with it comes the rise of the far right, and we know how that ends up - and this was actually a stated view of Brexit Britain, that Brexit was exactly essential to avoid this rise of the right in light of Europe's apparent open-arms immigration policy.

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3rdside
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Re: Biden Administration misc. activities

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I'd add that immigration going forward is essential, as to grow companies and economies it requires human capital but, for example, UK's revised post-Brexit approach to immigration is intended to mimic Australia's; that if you've got in demand skills then come on in.

But mass acts of immigration for compassionate reasons like Germany's (and not including legitimate refugee claims) or try-your-luck asylum seeking that's happening en masse in the UK (and happened in Australia until they stopped the boats a few years ago - which lead, sadly, to horrendous consequences for some of those who've found themselves stuck in one of the detention centres for years on end) just won't be tolerated.

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virtual9mm
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Re: Biden Administration misc. activities

Post by virtual9mm »

I think that the point most folks are missing is that there are different types of Muslims doing very different types of things. Many Wahibis preach political violence and terrorism (and this is why Madrassas built by the Saudis stir up trouble in so many places). The Sufis are all about quiet meditation. Just rough stereotypes but when you are looking at a billion plus people you can't just caricature them as one (although I am doing the same at a more granular level).

Islam wasn't so strict or fanatical in the recent past. I've hung out with folks in S and SE Asia who say that they are Muslim but will drink a beer with you because "beer isn't alcoholic" or "Just because I am Muslim doesn't mean that I can't also be Buddhist too". But the Wahibis are just as much of a problem as 3rdside proposes. And the Saudis have transplanted their totalitarian version of Wahibism across the world using our own money.

Extremists in general are bad.

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3rdside
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Re: Biden Administration misc. activities

Post by 3rdside »

And this kind of thing does not help..


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Mori Chu
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Re: Biden Administration misc. activities

Post by Mori Chu »

Lauren Boebert can go fuck herself. That type of talk is completely inappropriate for a sitting US Congressperson to use about another Congressperson, or really about any American. This is yet another step in the dehumanization and villainization the GOP is doing to their enemies, which will be used to oppress and commit violence against them in the near future.

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Nodack
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Re: Biden Administration misc. activities

Post by Nodack »

The day we elected Trump was the day America died.

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3rdside
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Re: Biden Administration misc. activities

Post by 3rdside »

We must use our hearts and our heads to solve the migrant problem

Britain should crack down on the black economy to stem the flow but do more for those given asylum

Matthew Syed - The Times, UK

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