Biden Administration misc. activities

[3rdside]

I acknowledged Brand self serving from a financial perspective but I really feel you don't know Brand at all judging by the points you're making.

You don't either. You know what he puts out there about himself, or his publicist puts out there. You aren't hanging out with him when the cameras and mics aren't around. Same with everyone.

Yes, fair enough, but he doesn't have to engage charities yet he does - and lots of them - and in his own words he's given too much of his wealth away .. and everything about his background shows quite clearly he's been a left leaning, help the poor type character from way back, as I've mentioned already.

There's no inconsistency there.

[Mori Chu]

People are calling out Joe Rogan because he is openly racist and promoting lies that endanger people's health.

Ok libtard

3rd, I don't want the Politics area to devolve into partisan name-calling. We can talk a little trash about each other's favorite media or politicians, but let's not directly call each other names. And I personally have an autistic daughter, so I don't like people throwing around words like "tard" or "autism" to insult others.

[3rdside]

Fair enough - it was said tongue in cheek but point taken

[3rdside]

I didn’t know that - I have a friend in London who has the same with an autistic child.. a very tough challenge from what I could tell.

As for the ‘tard word and retard - I agree it’s insensitive (i wouldn’t say the latter so I really shouldn’t say the former .. it is a fairly widespread / common word on twitter though. Maybe ‘misguided Lib’ is a better way of putting it! Kind of ironic either way as I am a liberal myself ..)

[Mori Chu]

Thanks, I appreciate your response. It's all good.

[3rdside]

I like Trevor Noah, but this seems almightily hypocritical ..

[Mori Chu]

You really like defending using the N word.

[AmareIsGod]

I think it's difficult when talking about Joe Rogan because he covers a myriad of topics. I've found some of his discussions with guests enlightening and entertaining, even if I haven't always agreed with their views. I do not know the context of conversation involving the N-word as I haven't listened to a lot of his podcasts but there is gray area when it's a topic around the word itself vs. using the word when describing someone during his podcast. Describing a neighborhood as the jungle, if in the context of a black neighborhood (or any minority), is clearly a racist viewpoint, even if the person sharing the view isn't a racist.

That's an entirely different topic as what constitutes levels of racism and is it cut and dry that you're racist or you aren't? I spent a chunk of time living in a few large inner cities in the US and I've had some fear of being a white minority in low-income minority sections of cities. Part of that is because I just haven't spent a lot of time in that environment and part of it is being shaped by The Wire and other programs I've watched on TV, violence against family years ago by minorities (which there's no telling if some of it was brought upon them or not as I wasn't alive 70 years ago) and having family that lives below the poverty line in desperate situations to survive. I could easily feel just as uncomfortable in an all-white neighborhood that is run down. Does any of that mean I'm racist? Does none if matter if I argue for and take actual action to help minorities in my day-to-day life? These thoughts above are frequently internalized but does conversation around any of it, in a close circle, on a forum, on a podcast, equate to conversation that is harmful and shouldn't happen?

It becomes a slippery slope of censorship when you're not allowing for conversation or discourse around topics that are controversial, and I'd argue eliminates critical thinking if every conversation takes a streamlined and single sided view. If the topics of conversation aren't driven by an agenda to put people at risk or incite violence, I struggle to try and say which voice gets airtime and which gets muffled. I'd hope that each of us has the fundamental ability to parse a conversation on what makes sense and aligns with our beliefs, however those are driven, while also allowing us the ability to digest alternative information and have critical thinking to reshape our constantly evolving worldviews.

Of course, none of that matters to a segment of any audience that holds firm in their beliefs and chooses only to align with the voice that echoes their sentiment on things.

I enjoy and welcome contrarian conversation as I've gotten older and become a father. I was very one-sided in my world views for a long time, towards many on here as well. I think it's a healthy component of growth to be challenged regularly on your views if you have the capacity to discern fact from fiction and right from wrong. Completely removing content and conversations from the Joe Rogan podcast and elsewhere does more harm than good. I'm not going to stop wearing a mask or avoid vaccinations and booster shots because of a conversation he has with someone that has alternative views to mine. If people are that easily persuaded in their decision making by others, there are plenty of people in their circle that will appease and shape them regardless of a Joe Rogan podcast episode.

[3rdside]

I'm really not defending the use of the N word, I'm making the points that:

- Joe Rogan is categorically not racist even though he has used language and analogies carelessly. I'm always open to discussing what being a racist actually means; is it words or actions or both, I but I'm absolutely confident Rogan himself is not a racist.

My criteria of a racist would cover things like how do people treat people of colour when no-ones looking? Treat black hospitality staff with friends? Can you accept the principles of CRT; that there is destructive, inherent casual racism widely evident in today's society?

It doesn't include negative criticisms of CRT, as the dumbed down application of the concepts of it appear to be deeply divisive and destructive.

- Noah is a raging hypocrite, howling offence at something he doesn't like without taking a look in his own back yard, and comes across as just wanting to join in the Rogan pile on without considering the nuances made in point 1.

[Indy]

everyone seems to draw their line on what racism is and isn't *just* passed where they are in their beliefs/actions.

[AmareIsGod]

everyone seems to draw their line on what racism is and isn't *just* passed where they are in their beliefs/actions.

What are your thoughts on someone being a racist and unbecoming a racist? At what point, if someone has made that shift, do we look at their past and continue to hold it over their head, anointing them a life-long racist unable to change?

I see it all the time where people are judged on their past instead of who they are today. And to be fair, it is part of their narrative but shouldn't be the summary or conclusion to their story.

I've made racist, homophobic, and sexist comments in my past. I'd be lying if I said I was perfect. I can see where I was wrong and ignorant in every one of those instances. I don't harbor those feelings and don't make those statements anymore. Much of my life, my circles and my maturity have changed. Do those things define me? Can I stand on my own as who I am today? Those are the types of thoughts that sometimes circulate in my head. I'm not sure if it's a byproduct or fatherhood, life or both.

If anyone here has never made a racist, homophobic, or sexist comment or had a thought that would be labeled as such in their lifetime, more power to you. I don't think that's the reality though. That applies to all races and genders. If you still carry on with those thoughts, that's a huge problem.

[Indy]

i don't think "once a racist always a racist" but you don't stop being a racist in your 30s/40s/+50s because you got caught being racist. You would have to go through a life-changing event. I agree that becoming a father for some is a life changing event that could cause all kind of major changes to your thinking/philosophy on life.

And what I posted wasn't a judgement of anyone in this thread or anywhere else. It is just a statement that the vast majority of people in the world would not describe themselves as racist. But almost EVERYONE is racist to some extent (it is a wide spectrum). So people say racism exists and it is bad, but then define racism as something further away from them on the spectrum so they can sit with the internal logic that *they* are not racist, but *those people* are.

[Indy]

And you don't say things like "you got the best of both worlds--a black mans body and a white mans brain" if you are not racist. Immediately saying right afterwards that you aren't racist for saying it because you don't mean anything bad by it, and then adding that black brains are different than white brains, is you doubling down on your racism. He is racist, and not just on the fringes of the spectrum.

[AmareIsGod]

i don't think "once a racist always a racist" but you don't stop being a racist in your 30s/40s/+50s because you got caught being racist. You would have to go through a life-changing event. I agree that becoming a father for some is a life changing event that could cause all kind of major changes to your thinking/philosophy on life.

And what I posted wasn't a judgement of anyone in this thread or anywhere else. It is just a statement that the vast majority of people in the world would not describe themselves as racist. But almost EVERYONE is racist to some extent (it is a wide spectrum). So people say racism exists and it is bad, but then define racism as something further away from them on the spectrum so they can sit with the internal logic that *they* are not racist, but *those people* are.

I agree with you. I think when people argue to justify a level of racism, that's a poor argument and only shows ignorance to the reality. It's either a racist notion or it isn't. There aren't levels to it that make one form right vs the other.

[AmareIsGod]

And you don't say things like "you got the best of both worlds--a black mans body and a white mans brain" if you are not racist. Immediately saying right afterwards that you aren't racist for saying it because you don't mean anything bad by it, and then adding that black brains are different than white brains, is you doubling down on your racism. He is racist, and not just on the fringes of the spectrum.

Didn't know that was said but agree that it is racist. It's no different than someone saying "Tom was good with his finances because his father was Jewish but short because his mother was Asian". Those are both racist stereotypes.

[Indy]

And you don't say things like "you got the best of both worlds--a black mans body and a white mans brain" if you are not racist. Immediately saying right afterwards that you aren't racist for saying it because you don't mean anything bad by it, and then adding that black brains are different than white brains, is you doubling down on your racism. He is racist, and not just on the fringes of the spectrum.

Didn't know that was said but agree that it is racist. It's no different than someone saying "Tom was good with his finances because his father was Jewish but short because his mother was Asian". Those are both racist stereotypes.

It is in the dozens of clips of him using the n-word in the last few years. He had a guest on and he started by asking "What are you?" and the guy said "My mom is white and by dad is Black." Then he said that and then tried to justify it.

[Indy]

And you don't say things like "you got the best of both worlds--a black mans body and a white mans brain" if you are not racist. Immediately saying right afterwards that you aren't racist for saying it because you don't mean anything bad by it, and then adding that black brains are different than white brains, is you doubling down on your racism. He is racist, and not just on the fringes of the spectrum.

Didn't know that was said but agree that it is racist. It's no different than someone saying "Tom was good with his finances because his father was Jewish but short because his mother was Asian". Those are both racist stereotypes.

maybe this is my racism, but I don't think the comment on height is necessarily racist. It is like saying someone is tall because their parents are Dutch. I don't think of that as racist. But maybe I am wrong.

[3rdside]

everyone seems to draw their line on what racism is and isn't *just* passed where they are in their beliefs/actions.

If you're suggesting that's what I'm doing then well done for another misguided pot shot..at least you backed it up with some discussion this time

[3rdside]

i don't think "once a racist always a racist" but you don't stop being a racist in your 30s/40s/+50s because you got caught being racist. You would have to go through a life-changing event. I agree that becoming a father for some is a life changing event that could cause all kind of major changes to your thinking/philosophy on life.

And what I posted wasn't a judgement of anyone in this thread or anywhere else. It is just a statement that the vast majority of people in the world would not describe themselves as racist. But almost EVERYONE is racist to some extent (it is a wide spectrum). So people say racism exists and it is bad, but then define racism as something further away from them on the spectrum so they can sit with the internal logic that *they* are not racist, but *those people* are.

Ok, I see your qualifier here

[3rdside]

And you don't say things like "you got the best of both worlds--a black mans body and a white mans brain" if you are not racist. Immediately saying right afterwards that you aren't racist for saying it because you don't mean anything bad by it, and then adding that black brains are different than white brains, is you doubling down on your racism. He is racist, and not just on the fringes of the spectrum.

It's a clunky / non-pc comment but it's simply not categorically racist - I'd take it as a compliment personally but that's just me.

If you can accept that black bodies are athletically superior to white bodies - which they undeniably are - and that white IQ at the margins are higher than black IQ at the margins, then it's simply a factual statement.


That said however, while I believe there's nothing wrong talking about the superiority of black bodies, I strongly disagree with talking about the superiority of white brains because it categorically will lead to overt racism in society, the thing we're all trying to avoid.