Suns 2022 Off-Season Thread

[JeremyG]

Does Gambo still get insider info? I haven't paid attention to him..ever?

That’s interesting and ya it’s definitely tampering or borderline tampering. I don’t exactly know how it all works, but you know Ayton’s agent has been putting out feelers to see who might sign his guy.

I don’t know what the specific rules are, can Ayton’s agent talk to teams? The bigger problem would be how do we communicate who we want them to draft?

Not until June 30. Upcoming free agents and/or their agents aren't allowed to discuss anything with other teams, or else we would know where every free agent is going before the NBA Finals are over.

[In2ition]

He’s only got 1 year left on his deal…I’m not sure how we get Minny to bite though unless they just want to dump him. We can get there pretty easy as we also have 31 million in expiring contracts, but don’t really think Crowder/Saric/Payne/Craig would be all that exciting to Minny. Maybe Crowder makes sense, but we’d have to include draft capital and I’m not doing that for D-Lo

The only thing that would make it look decent is that you would get all the friends together on one team, and DLo off the bench as a scoring option would be 5x better than Payne, imo.

[Shabazz]

Turner is also not great at defending in space. He's a good interior defender. That's about it.

[Shabazz]

I get the reality of the situation, but some of these rumors are just...ugh. We weren't good enough to win a title this year, so the idea is we get older and worse for Robert Sarver's benefit? No thanks. I'd rather keep Ayton at a 4 year max and then trade him when the right opportunity presents itself.

(I'm referring to Jake Fischer's article today which mentions Nurkic and Capela as returns).

[ShelC]

The recent Williams dynamic may simply echo consistent word—dating back to the trade deadline—from league sources with knowledge of the situation that Ayton is not particularly a favorite of Phoenix's head coach. Williams has purportedly griped about Ayton's waning focus, which some people contacted by B/R said has often been reflected by the ebbs of his playing time.

There's a stronger sense among league figures that Phoenix brass simply does not view Ayton, or any center, as a player worth greater than $30 million annually.

If the Suns let Ayton walk, league officials expect Phoenix to try and engineer a sign-and-trade for some frontcourt help. That would require tricky cap calculations and possibly a third team.

Perhaps Portland, where free-agent center Jusuf Nurkic is expected to command far less than Ayton on the open market, could be a trade partner. Detroit's longstanding willingness to discuss Jerami Grant could provide a window for Phoenix to nab a versatile frontcourt defender in return.

[Indy]

I get the reality of the situation, but some of these rumors are just...ugh. We weren't good enough to win a title this year, so the idea is we get older and worse for Robert Sarver's benefit? No thanks. I'd rather keep Ayton at a 4 year max and then trade him when the right opportunity presents itself.

(I'm referring to Jake Fischer's article today which mentions Nurkic and Capela as returns).

I agree that makes the most sense. But we are already going to be a tax payer with only 10 guys under contract. So our lowest paid contract, Craig at 5M, is actually going to cost almost 10M. Then we will pay double for all the vet min guys to fill out the roster. I just don't see Sarver willing to pay 10-20M in taxes because he is paying Ayton more than Paul and Bridges and almost as much as Book when he doesn't even want to be here.

[JeremyG]

The recent Williams dynamic may simply echo consistent word—dating back to the trade deadline—from league sources with knowledge of the situation that Ayton is not particularly a favorite of Phoenix's head coach. Williams has purportedly griped about Ayton's waning focus, which some people contacted by B/R said has often been reflected by the ebbs of his playing time.

There's a stronger sense among league figures that Phoenix brass simply does not view Ayton, or any center, as a player worth greater than $30 million annually.

If the Suns let Ayton walk, league officials expect Phoenix to try and engineer a sign-and-trade for some frontcourt help. That would require tricky cap calculations and possibly a third team.

Perhaps Portland, where free-agent center Jusuf Nurkic is expected to command far less than Ayton on the open market, could be a trade partner. Detroit's longstanding willingness to discuss Jerami Grant could provide a window for Phoenix to nab a versatile frontcourt defender in return.

See that's the problem with the Suns' front office. They're literally insane. So much for everyone's dreams of landing KAT.

Also, do they not understand there's going to be a jump in the salary cap? Over $30M will be nothing.

And this argument (likely coming from the team) is just so shortsighted it's almost hilarious:

If the Suns could sign Biyombo midseason to just a veteran minimum deal and Chris Paul could steer him into a serviceable rotation player, could Paul not have the same success with a big man far less costly than Ayton's next deal?

Yeah, maybe Paul could...for what? Another 0.5 years? Lol.

Our 2 biggest problems haunting us for our future (and that destroyed us this postseason):

1. Monty's love for Chris.

2. Monty's hate for Deandre.

[Split T]

He’s only got 1 year left on his deal…I’m not sure how we get Minny to bite though unless they just want to dump him. We can get there pretty easy as we also have 31 million in expiring contracts, but don’t really think Crowder/Saric/Payne/Craig would be all that exciting to Minny. Maybe Crowder makes sense, but we’d have to include draft capital and I’m not doing that for D-Lo

The only thing that would make it look decent is that you would get all the friends together on one team, and DLo off the bench as a scoring option would be 5x better than Payne, imo.

Ya if you get KAT it’s worth it…was also thinking about it without KAT involved…that would be a no for me

[In2ition]

He’s only got 1 year left on his deal…I’m not sure how we get Minny to bite though unless they just want to dump him. We can get there pretty easy as we also have 31 million in expiring contracts, but don’t really think Crowder/Saric/Payne/Craig would be all that exciting to Minny. Maybe Crowder makes sense, but we’d have to include draft capital and I’m not doing that for D-Lo

The only thing that would make it look decent is that you would get all the friends together on one team, and DLo off the bench as a scoring option would be 5x better than Payne, imo.

Ya if you get KAT it’s worth it…was also thinking about it without KAT involved…that would be a no for me

I agree with that.

[JeremyG]

Centers not worth >$30M according to the Suns' "brass":

Nikola Jokic - #1 in MVP voting

Joel Embiid - #2 in MVP voting

Giannis Antetokounmpo (PF/C) - #3 in MVP voting

[Split T]

That’s obviously not true

[JeremyG]

Fischer didn't just make up "any center"--that's what his sources are saying.

[ShelC]

He wrote that it was the sense among league officials....doesn't make it 100% true. Let's take some of these reports with a grain of salt for now. I do tend to believe the Suns don't think DA is a "sicko" the way Book, Mikal, Cam are (in terms of young players on the roster).

And to be fair, how many $30mil centers are leading their team in the playoffs right now? Bam? And he's hardly leading that team, but is also more of a dynamic player on both sides of the ball.

[Indy]

The recent Williams dynamic may simply echo consistent word—dating back to the trade deadline—from league sources with knowledge of the situation that Ayton is not particularly a favorite of Phoenix's head coach. Williams has purportedly griped about Ayton's waning focus, which some people contacted by B/R said has often been reflected by the ebbs of his playing time.

There's a stronger sense among league figures that Phoenix brass simply does not view Ayton, or any center, as a player worth greater than $30 million annually.

If the Suns let Ayton walk, league officials expect Phoenix to try and engineer a sign-and-trade for some frontcourt help. That would require tricky cap calculations and possibly a third team.

Perhaps Portland, where free-agent center Jusuf Nurkic is expected to command far less than Ayton on the open market, could be a trade partner. Detroit's longstanding willingness to discuss Jerami Grant could provide a window for Phoenix to nab a versatile frontcourt defender in return.

See that's the problem with the Suns' front office. They're literally insane. So much for everyone's dreams of landing KAT.

Also, do they not understand there's going to be a jump in the salary cap? Over $30M will be nothing.

And this argument (likely coming from the team) is just so shortsighted it's almost hilarious:

If the Suns could sign Biyombo midseason to just a veteran minimum deal and Chris Paul could steer him into a serviceable rotation player, could Paul not have the same success with a big man far less costly than Ayton's next deal?

Yeah, maybe Paul could...for what? Another 0.5 years? Lol.

Our 2 biggest problems haunting us for our future (and that destroyed us this postseason):

1. Monty's love for Chris.

2. Monty's hate for Deandre.

LOL. Monty doesn't hate Deandre. I doubt Monty could hate anyone. But no coach would enjoy having to coddle a player and beg him to do things like take advantage of your inherent strengths or take what the defense is giving you. And then hear that player complain that he isn't featured enough, especially when he runs 20 DHOs a game and just hands it off 99% of the time without ever looking at the hoop.

[Indy]

He wrote that it was the sense among league officials....doesn't make it 100% true. Let's take some of these reports with a grain of salt for now. I do tend to believe the Suns don't think DA is a "sicko" the way Book, Mikal, Cam are (in terms of young players on the roster).

And to be fair, how many $30mil centers are leading their team in the playoffs right now? Bam? And he's hardly leading that team, but is also more of a dynamic player on both sides of the ball.

Exactly. I am not saying you can't win with a center as your highest paid player, or your best player. But we haven't seen that in a while. When was the last time? I guess Shaq about 20 years ago and Hakeem almost 30 years ago. And those guys are first ballot HOF and consider two of the best 5 to play the position.

[Drewsprocket]

The main culprit here is Ayton’s maturity and consistency for a player who wants to be maxxed. History tells us he’s unlikely to change. Even people like Kyrie can reflect back and recognize how their personality cost championships. What he isn’t aware of that his current behavior continues to cost the teams he plays for.
Suns can only have so many max players, to win a championship Ayton may not be that guy. I’m ok with flipping him for a good Player + a lottery pick (Turner and sixth / Simons and 7th). I’m also ok with signing him to trade later.

[Indy]

The main culprit here is Ayton’s maturity and consistency for a player who wants to be maxxed. History tells us he’s unlikely to change. Even people like Kyrie can reflect back and recognize how their personality cost championships. What he isn’t aware of that his current behavior continues to cost the teams he plays for.
Suns can only have so many max players, to win a championship Ayton may not be that guy. I’m ok with flipping him for a good Player + a lottery pick (Turner and sixth / Simons and 7th). I’m also ok with signing him to trade later.

If he would have stepped up to just kind of slow down Giannis last year, he would already be maxed. I am sure he doesn't see that.

[Drewsprocket]

The main culprit here is Ayton’s maturity and consistency for a player who wants to be maxxed. History tells us he’s unlikely to change. Even people like Kyrie can reflect back and recognize how their personality cost championships. What he isn’t aware of that his current behavior continues to cost the teams he plays for.
Suns can only have so many max players, to win a championship Ayton may not be that guy. I’m ok with flipping him for a good Player + a lottery pick (Turner and sixth / Simons and 7th). I’m also ok with signing him to trade later.

If he would have stepped up to just kind of slow down Giannis last year, he would already be maxed. I am sure he doesn't see that.

Yeah he’s all expectation with little accountability. I forget who said it before: Ayton was always treated like he was a dominant center when he picked up a basketball. He’s had a huge learning curve in regards to realizing what it takes to be a winner. I still can’t let go of his suspension keeping us out the playoffs in 2019-2020.
On autopilot and on a shit team, Ayton can absolutely hang 20 and 12 every night and fucking lose horribly.
Suns culture with Monty and CP3 has really mitigated that. I could see Lillard having a similar effect on Ayton too.

[In2ition]

I feel like if they bring Ayton back, they need to focus on getting him the ball in the offense much more. Then they need to force him to take the ball to the basket w/ off the dribble moves.

So they need to work with him in the off-season on that first move, first explosive step, one dribble to the basket like Amare used to do. He needs to get calluses on his hands from trying to rip it down. 2 hands, 1 hand, create contact, drive through contact, finish strong.

Once he gets that, he starts reading the help defender, as he knows he can get past the first guy, to avoid them taking charges and/or making the correct pass.

[Split T]

Fischer didn't just make up "any center"--that's what his sources are saying.

As others have said…his source is “league figures” making assumptions on the suns. You’re taking that and turning it into a fact that the suns wouldn’t pay Giannis, Embiid, or Jokic. I know you’re just trying to paint them as incompetent because they won’t pay your boy Ayton, but that’s a major stretch.

Those 3 you mentioned transcend position…they are just superstars, their position doesn’t matter. Ayton is not that, not close.