Suns 2022 Off-Season Thread

[Indy]

Yes yes so we can let Amare I mean Ayton go, and then get Gortat who is basically a great replacement and does 80% of the job, while getting Turkoglu as a solid secondary playmaker to take pressure off Nash I mean CP3/Book. The parts individually may not be 1:1 but the sum as a whole is….a giant turd because that’s not how the NBA works. You need stars. This ain’t the Oakland A’s.

You’re too hung up on a terrible front office from 10+ years ago who completely botched the post Amare team. There’s no indication that this front office will do the same thing.

No there isn’t, but there’s indication that people on this board and the rumor mill will. Miss me with these mediocre role players being discussed.

Poettl aka Marcin????

Mr. Glass from Toronto??

“Draft Pick” ???

If it ain’t a star or up-and-coming star, match DA and wait.

The lowest talent I’d be willing to accept is Sabonis or Jarrett Allen and another player and even then I’d rather hang on to DA.

Who’s Mr. Glass? OG? He’s played 9 less games as Ayton over the last 4 years.

Poeltl is basically Marcin, I’ll give you that…but it wouldn’t just be him. We’ll have to disagree on the value of Vassell and #9 or Keldon Johnson though as I know you think that’s Josh Childress all over again for some reason.

And fair enough on needing Sabonis /Allen…I certainly understand that mentality. I’d prefer that to the spurs package, just not sure it’s gonna be an option.

If Ayton tells you he doesn’t want to come back and to let him go and that he’s not going to be happy just playing his role next year, what do you do? Imagine Poeltl, Vassell, and #9 or OG, #33, and a future 1st are the two offers on the table.

Who cares what Ayton says. We’re toast without him anyway. There’s no scenario in which we lose him and actually improve as a team NEXT SEASON. Match it anyway and wait for the right deal or for him to get over it.

Organizations do that all the time.

Why would I imagine a bunch of pu pu platters on the table?

I’m hanging up the phone on Toronto if they call and mention deals that don’t include FVV, Siakam or Barnes. Not interested in helping other teams improve their roster while we get their spare parts. We are in control here: if they want a young talent who has improved every year in the league, they’re going to have to pay for it/

If the spurs want DA, they can find a way to make a deal work where they include Dejounte Murray. Sorry Spurs fans, when you trade a star you never get a 1:1 return!

If they do this all the time, I am sure you can find several examples over the last couple of seasons where it happened and it worked out well for the team that matched.

[Split T]

You’re too hung up on a terrible front office from 10+ years ago who completely botched the post Amare team. There’s no indication that this front office will do the same thing.

No there isn’t, but there’s indication that people on this board and the rumor mill will. Miss me with these mediocre role players being discussed.

Poettl aka Marcin????

Mr. Glass from Toronto??

“Draft Pick” ???

If it ain’t a star or up-and-coming star, match DA and wait.

The lowest talent I’d be willing to accept is Sabonis or Jarrett Allen and another player and even then I’d rather hang on to DA.

301 games in 5 years vs 236 in 4. Yeah, so different there.

I am all for matching his offer and waiting for a better fit. But waiting only works if he is willing to do his job and not quit on the team. And having a guy with a max contract that doesn't want to play for your team because he wants to get more shots is not a way to increase his value.

I wish you were my boss.
You’re letting a 23 year olds emotions dictate your organizational decisions. Think about that lol.

If I had an employee that didn't want to work, why would I keep him around? Especially if my other workers said he doesn't do his part? Make no mistake that if Ayton gets traded, it is because Book and CP3 signed off on it.

Keep him around and give him a massive raise

[specialsauce]

How many times did Kobe ask for a trade?

Pelicans matched Eric Gordon when the Suns signed him (he suffered multiple injuries so it worked out for Phoenix in the end)

Blazers matched Batums offer when he signed with Minny and he was on record later on saying it was a blessing even though he was upset at the time

[ShelC]

I'm not super crazy about Poetl and Keldon. I get they're nice role players, and maybe some classify DA as a high end 7-0ft role player, but they're not what you bring back in a trade for DA. I would definitely need the 9 pick to even think about it. Vassell is ehh. You can find guys like him in the draft and at 6-5, he's still not bringing the size we need on the perimeter. Also need to consider Poeltl shoots around 50% from the FT line, which isn't insignificant.

And if we're being honest about OG, he's played 91 games over the past 2 years.

[specialsauce]

No there isn’t, but there’s indication that people on this board and the rumor mill will. Miss me with these mediocre role players being discussed.

Poettl aka Marcin????

Mr. Glass from Toronto??

“Draft Pick” ???

If it ain’t a star or up-and-coming star, match DA and wait.

The lowest talent I’d be willing to accept is Sabonis or Jarrett Allen and another player and even then I’d rather hang on to DA.

301 games in 5 years vs 236 in 4. Yeah, so different there.

I am all for matching his offer and waiting for a better fit. But waiting only works if he is willing to do his job and not quit on the team. And having a guy with a max contract that doesn't want to play for your team because he wants to get more shots is not a way to increase his value.

I wish you were my boss.
You’re letting a 23 year olds emotions dictate your organizational decisions. Think about that lol.

If I had an employee that didn't want to work, why would I keep him around? Especially if my other workers said he doesn't do his part? Make no mistake that if Ayton gets traded, it is because Book and CP3 signed off on it.

Keep him around and give him a massive raise

Nah, just “accept” that he will breach his contract and tank your business so you might as well cave to his demands and tank your own organization.

If you’re a Lamborghini dealer, just trade your Lamborghini for two Ford Escapes.

[specialsauce]

Or,

You expect that he fulfills the duties of his contract. If he doesn’t want to be with your team for the long-term, sign the QO. You’re telling him up front we will match whatever deal you find unless you can find a deal that works for us. Otherwise, sign your QO and you can control your own destiny a year from now.

Life lessons and expectations.

[specialsauce]

I'm not super crazy about Poetl and Keldon. I get they're nice role players, and maybe some classify DA as a high end 7-0ft role player, but they're not what you bring back in a trade for DA. I would definitely need the 9 pick to even think about it. Vassell is ehh. You can find guys like him in the draft and at 6-5, he's still not bringing the size we need on the perimeter. Also need to consider Poeltl shoots around 50% from the FT line, which isn't insignificant.

And if we're being honest about OG, he's played 91 games over the past 2 years.

Bingo

[specialsauce]

https://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/2015 ... after.html

Every once in a while, Nicolas Batum says, he thinks back to those tumultuous and stressful summer days when he wanted to leave Portland and play basketball in Minnesota.

It was the summer of 2012, and feeling like he was being marginalized in Portland, Batum had become enamored by the flowing system of Minnesota coach Rick Adelman, and the prospect of playing alongside guard Ricky Rubio, another flashy foreigner.

He was a free agent, and made it clear he wanted to leave, but since he was drafted by Portland and had played four seasons with the Blazers, owner Paul Allen had the right to match any offer from another team.

Minnesota played hardball, and offered $45 million over four years. Neil Olshey, barely a month into his gig as Blazers' general manager, didn't blink and matched the offer.

Three years later, Batum has been a hit-and-miss for one of the NBA's rising teams while Minnesota has turned into a rebuilding project that has trouble escaping its own training room.

On Wednesday, after the Blazers routed Minnesota 116-91, Batum admitted he sometimes plays the what-if game of Olshey and Portland's decision.

"I've thought about it, but the thing is, we will never know,'' Batum said. "Maybe it would have worked out well and (Minnesota) would have been a good team. Maybe not. You just never know. The thing is, I'm glad (Portland) matched because we are doing good since we matched.''

[Indy]

301 games in 5 years vs 236 in 4. Yeah, so different there.

I am all for matching his offer and waiting for a better fit. But waiting only works if he is willing to do his job and not quit on the team. And having a guy with a max contract that doesn't want to play for your team because he wants to get more shots is not a way to increase his value.

I wish you were my boss.
You’re letting a 23 year olds emotions dictate your organizational decisions. Think about that lol.

If I had an employee that didn't want to work, why would I keep him around? Especially if my other workers said he doesn't do his part? Make no mistake that if Ayton gets traded, it is because Book and CP3 signed off on it.

Keep him around and give him a massive raise

Nah, just “accept” that he will breach his contract and tank your business so you might as well cave to his demands and tank your own organization.

If you’re a Lamborghini dealer, just trade your Lamborghini for two Ford Escapes.

lol you are 98% hyperbole on this site.

[Indy]

I'm not super crazy about Poetl and Keldon. I get they're nice role players, and maybe some classify DA as a high end 7-0ft role player, but they're not what you bring back in a trade for DA. I would definitely need the 9 pick to even think about it. Vassell is ehh. You can find guys like him in the draft and at 6-5, he's still not bringing the size we need on the perimeter. Also need to consider Poeltl shoots around 50% from the FT line, which isn't insignificant.

And if we're being honest about OG, he's played 91 games over the past 2 years.

Bingo

Yeah, I wouldn't do it with Vassell. And I do think draft comp has to come our way even with Poeltl and Keldon.

Oh, and for that last part, I mean DA missed a quarter of the season with an ankle sprain this year.

[specialsauce]

I wish you were my boss.
You’re letting a 23 year olds emotions dictate your organizational decisions. Think about that lol.

If I had an employee that didn't want to work, why would I keep him around? Especially if my other workers said he doesn't do his part? Make no mistake that if Ayton gets traded, it is because Book and CP3 signed off on it.

Keep him around and give him a massive raise

Nah, just “accept” that he will breach his contract and tank your business so you might as well cave to his demands and tank your own organization.

If you’re a Lamborghini dealer, just trade your Lamborghini for two Ford Escapes.

lol you are 98% hyperbole on this site.

I’d prefer if you said 100%

[Indy]

If I had an employee that didn't want to work, why would I keep him around? Especially if my other workers said he doesn't do his part? Make no mistake that if Ayton gets traded, it is because Book and CP3 signed off on it.

Keep him around and give him a massive raise

Nah, just “accept” that he will breach his contract and tank your business so you might as well cave to his demands and tank your own organization.

If you’re a Lamborghini dealer, just trade your Lamborghini for two Ford Escapes.

lol you are 98% hyperbole on this site.

I’d prefer if you said 100%

I wrote that first and then edited it. So I guess that means you prefer my unedited side.

[specialsauce]

Keep him around and give him a massive raise

Nah, just “accept” that he will breach his contract and tank your business so you might as well cave to his demands and tank your own organization.

If you’re a Lamborghini dealer, just trade your Lamborghini for two Ford Escapes.

lol you are 98% hyperbole on this site.

I’d prefer if you said 100%

I wrote that first and then edited it. So I guess that means you prefer my unedited side.

Take the filters off let’s rumble !! Isn’t that what the internet is for

[Drewsprocket]

I'd be more interested in a trade that involves a mid/late lotto pick. I'd like to replace DA with a big like Mark WIlliams but I'm not sure the Suns even value bigs that much. They may know they have McGee and/or Biz locked in already for next year.

For me, it'd take DA signing some frontloaded poison pill max offer to even talk trade. If he's just signing a regular max offer, I'd match. But maybe the Suns are ready to move on and re-shape the roster.

I guess it depends on what DA's camp has said. If they said we prefer you don't match any offers because we want to play somewhere as the center of the offense, do you still match?

Yes, or you'll regret it forever like with Joe Johnson.

But if he absolutely demands out, then you'll have to do a S&T for mediocre assets, just like I've been predicting they will do since last summer.

Joe Johnson when he left the suns > Ayton now.
Joe Johnson “ISO Joe” would have beaten Dallas, he could defend, knock down shots anywhere, create for himself, create for his teammates. We wont regret Ayton leaving, unless you’re determined to max him and then run your offense through him into the playoffs.

[Flagrant Fowl]

I don't think he has great form on 3-point shots at all. He shoots a line drive ball that works for him in the mid range, but is really hard to hit consistently on volume from deep.

He also has only taken them from the top of the key, which is an indication of his inability to hit them from elsewhere in practice.

You want to trade 5-6 of Ayton's shots from <10 feet for 3 pointers? Or are you saying he needs to take 18-19 shots a game?

And that is great he shot 36.8% from 3, but it was on 19 attempts all season. He is open from there at least once or twice a game.

I'm confused by your questions. I was simply pointing out his 3-pointer efficiency is unknown at this point and his shooting form isn't great.

[AmareIsGod]

Everyone simmer down! We still have a long way to go before next season. At this rate, there's going to be a mass shooting on these boards. One minute we're telling jokes. The next minute we're name calling, bolding words and questioning opinions. This goes for saucy, FF, Indy, Drewsprocket, ShelC, SplitT, Sose, misterradiant and Mori.

[Indy]

I don't think he has great form on 3-point shots at all. He shoots a line drive ball that works for him in the mid range, but is really hard to hit consistently on volume from deep.

He also has only taken them from the top of the key, which is an indication of his inability to hit them from elsewhere in practice.

You want to trade 5-6 of Ayton's shots from <10 feet for 3 pointers? Or are you saying he needs to take 18-19 shots a game?

And that is great he shot 36.8% from 3, but it was on 19 attempts all season. He is open from there at least once or twice a game.

I'm confused by your questions. I was simply pointing out his 3-pointer efficiency is unknown at this point and his shooting form isn't great.

Sorry, I clicked reply to the wrong post. It was supposed to be to this one:

Yeah man, in the 90s. LOL.

Karl Malone was assisted on 79% of his shots. He was MVP two times with that number. Shaq was 60-65%. You guys a putting way to much weight on that number. Just because Embiid, Jokic and Giannis are different doesn’t mean Ayton is a bad player. It means he doesn’t dribble the ball upcourt and shoot it. It also means the Suns have a lot of ball movement before the shot. Not a bad thing.

Yep. And even Hakeem, Robinson, and Ewing were all close to that 75% number.

For the Suns, Shawn Marion was over 75% assisted in 2005-06 as our #1 in FGA, and 2006-07 as our #2.

We’re talking about a different era of basketball when teams force fed the post. I know that’s what you want us to do for Ayton, but there’s a reason the nba went away from that. It was inefficient. Those Rocket teams led by Hakeem topped out at about a 109 offensive rating, league average was 112 this year. The Knicks were even worse, topping out at about 108. The Jazz did have more success offensively, but that was helped out by a couple high efficiency guard in Stockton and Hornacek. Also they ran more pick n roll than post ups.

The 90’s were also an era that made post play easier. You couldn’t play zone. Had to either man up or commit to the double team. Lots of 1 on 1 post play or easier passes because everyone is glued to a man and someone would be wide open with a double. Hand checking on the perimeter also made driving tougher and led to teams using post play to get to the rim. It just doesn’t make sense to play the way you want to anymore.

Yeah and the NBA went away from the midrange game because it was inefficient. But you don’t mind Chris Paul and Devin Booker throwing it back to that.

And for everyone around the Suns fandom saying they need to shoot more threes and bring in more shooters, why not just let Ayton shoot threes? He has great form and has shown he can knock them down—he would no doubt be better than Crowder!

[Indy]

Everyone simmer down! We still have a long way to go before next season. At this rate, there's going to be a mass shooting on these boards. One minute we're telling jokes. The next minute we're name calling, bolding words and questioning opinions. This goes for saucy, FF, Indy, Drewsprocket, ShelC, SplitT, Sose, misterradiant and Mori.

Nobody asked you Spivey!

[Furlanfufi]

I'm still waiting for something like "Marion told the team in the locker room he was doing everything with no help" 2007 to explain it all.

[virtual9mm]

Yes yes so we can let Amare I mean Ayton go, and then get Gortat who is basically a great replacement and does 80% of the job, while getting Turkoglu as a solid secondary playmaker to take pressure off Nash I mean CP3/Book. The parts individually may not be 1:1 but the sum as a whole is….a giant turd because that’s not how the NBA works. You need stars. This ain’t the Oakland A’s.

You’re too hung up on a terrible front office from 10+ years ago who completely botched the post Amare team. There’s no indication that this front office will do the same thing.

No there isn’t, but there’s indication that people on this board and the rumor mill will. Miss me with these mediocre role players being discussed.

Poettl aka Marcin????

Mr. Glass from Toronto??

“Draft Pick” ???

If it ain’t a star or up-and-coming star, match DA and wait.

The lowest talent I’d be willing to accept is Sabonis or Jarrett Allen and another player and even then I’d rather hang on to DA.

Who’s Mr. Glass? OG? He’s played 9 less games as Ayton over the last 4 years.

Poeltl is basically Marcin, I’ll give you that…but it wouldn’t just be him. We’ll have to disagree on the value of Vassell and #9 or Keldon Johnson though as I know you think that’s Josh Childress all over again for some reason.

And fair enough on needing Sabonis /Allen…I certainly understand that mentality. I’d prefer that to the spurs package, just not sure it’s gonna be an option.

If Ayton tells you he doesn’t want to come back and to let him go and that he’s not going to be happy just playing his role next year, what do you do? Imagine Poeltl, Vassell, and #9 or OG, #33, and a future 1st are the two offers on the table.

Who cares what Ayton says. We’re toast without him anyway. There’s no scenario in which we lose him and actually improve as a team NEXT SEASON. Match it anyway and wait for the right deal or for him to get over it.

Organizations do that all the time.

Why would I imagine a bunch of pu pu platters on the table?

I’m hanging up the phone on Toronto if they call and mention deals that don’t include FVV, Siakam or Barnes. Not interested in helping other teams improve their roster while we get their spare parts. We are in control here: if they want a young talent who has improved every year in the league, they’re going to have to pay for it/

If the spurs want DA, they can find a way to make a deal work where they include Dejounte Murray. Sorry Spurs fans, when you trade a star you never get a 1:1 return!

Yes, this.