Suns 2022 Off-Season Thread

[specialsauce]

Unless they could replace him with another high level point guard or at least a dynamic offensive wing, the Suns without Chris Paul next season would be at the back end of the playoff seedings.

I get that he's old, but he's still going to be a huge factor in winning games. The offensive void without Paul is much bigger than what the Suns would miss without Ayton. It's much easier to replace a role-playing Center than a 3rd Team All-NBA guard.

The rise started again in the bubble. Chris Paul didn’t play in the bubble Ricky Rubio did.

They also missed the playoffs in the bubble but went to the Finals and set a record for franchise wins in Chris Paul's two seasons.

They missed the playoffs in the bubble? No shit, they were too far out to even make the playoffs after going 8-0. They went 8-0 with out Chris Paul though.

Chris Paul has set franchise records for wins in a season with 4 different franchises and has never won a title. He’s a great regular season point guard that withers when the chips are down. See last years Bucks series and this years Dallas series as examples. He’s also going to be 38 by next year’s playoffs. We aren’t winning a title with Chris Paul as the point guard. To think otherwise is delusional.

Bingo. People over here celebrating participation trophies. If you didn’t win a championship, none of the rest matters. Point God = King Collapse

[Split T]

Funny how you all don't want to keep Ayton because he's not worth paying and yet you won't take an All-Star center for him.

Maybe it’s because Centers are overrated. And Vucevic made 2 all-star games in 11 years and won’t make another one. He’s 32 and on the downslope. I think we’d all also gladly keep Ayton if he was willing to play at the 22 million Vucevic will make next year.

So it’s not okay to pay Ayton $30 million, but it is okay to pay him $22? He is worth the extra $8 million. To build this team around Chris Paul is a mistake at this point.

Ya, 8 million is a lot. By that logic we should have just paid Bridges the max.

And what other option do we have besides building around Paul? Are you suggesting we just focus on the future? Trade Paul? That’s probably not gonna fly with Booker at all. Sometimes I don’t think we consider all the mechanics at play when we as fans make suggestions.

Yet we can trade for Landry Shamet and sign him to an extension of $10 million a year before he steps on the court for us. Sounds like a good idea to let Ayton go for an $8 million difference. This franchise has pined for a center like Ayton since it’s inception and now that we have one we just let him walk over $8 million??

And Bridges isn’t worth near the max.

So 8 million would’ve been a big enough deal for you when it came to Bridges? I absolutely love Bridges and I would’ve had a problem with signing him at the max.

And if it was up to me, I wouldn’t have signed Shamet to that deal either, but FF is right, that’s still a very movable deal and is only gauranteed for 2 years.

[Split T]

Do any of these guys just saying to pay whatever the players want have any savings of their own? Or do they just spend all of their income?

Unfortunately, money is finite. Otherwise, yeah, just pay him and everybody else whatever their agents ask for.

Ayton will get a max contract, whether from us or someone else. You know what that means? That means a max contract is his market value. It’s pretty basic economics really. It’s not just his agent asking for it.

That's true. Then it comes down to if that amount of salary is worth it to the team for his production and what will be left to sign other players to make the best team possible.

This is why the "market value" argument is so flawed, and it's more often than not how teams get themselves into cap trouble.

It’s not just an argument, it’s a fact of the NBA. If you want to compete you have to pay for players.

Why is nobody complains about the fact we are paying a PG we can’t win a title with $40+ million dollars? Instead, let’s let a center that hasn’t hit his ceiling yet walk.

Paul makes 28 million next year, not 40+

And here’s what I hate about the market value stuff. Yes Ayton’s market value is the max, but so was Kristaps Porzingis and Andrew Wiggins. Rudy Gobert had a supermax market value. So did Westbrook and Wall.

Just because it’s their market value doesn’t mean it’s a good idea to pay it. When we say he’s not worth the max, we’re saying he’s not going to return the value of the good max contract players. He’s not Luka, he’s not Trae, he’s not Tatum or Jokic or Embiid.

Andre Drummond got a max contract once too and is now hopping around team to team on vet min deals. I’m not saying Ayton will be that, but if we don’t believe in him as a max player, this is probably our last chance to get something of value for him. I don’t expect his trade value to increase when he’s on the max deal. He’ll still be tradeable, but closer to the sense that KP and Wiggins got traded.

[Split T]

Ok, given the rumors...Ayton and Cam Johnson or Shamet (if you can get away with it...) for Turner, Rubio and Haliburton?

You can’t package Ayton with anything. Illegal

Not true, it’s legal. That was a myth

[wpmiller42]

Ok, given the rumors...Ayton and Cam Johnson or Shamet (if you can get away with it...) for Turner, Rubio and Haliburton?

You can’t package Ayton with anything. Illegal

Not true, it’s legal. That was a myth

I would be shocked if Indiana would go for that deal. Haliburton is legit and I still can't believe Sacramento let him go, even for Sabonis (and I really like Sabonis). I'm not saying we should do that deal (I'm for keeping Ayton for the most part), but Turner and Haliburton is a pretty good return.

[Split T]

Ya Indy wouldn’t do that. They might do Turner and whoever they draft at 6…but they’d probably have to not love whoever is there at 6.

[Wally_West]

Rubio a free agent too. Indy Can’t trade him

[JeremyG]

Funny how you all don't want to keep Ayton because he's not worth paying and yet you won't take an All-Star center for him.

Maybe it’s because Centers are overrated. And Vucevic made 2 all-star games in 11 years and won’t make another one. He’s 32 and on the downslope. I think we’d all also gladly keep Ayton if he was willing to play at the 22 million Vucevic will make next year.

So it’s not okay to pay Ayton $30 million, but it is okay to pay him $22? He is worth the extra $8 million. To build this team around Chris Paul is a mistake at this point.

Ya, 8 million is a lot. By that logic we should have just paid Bridges the max.

And what other option do we have besides building around Paul? Are you suggesting we just focus on the future? Trade Paul? That’s probably not gonna fly with Booker at all. Sometimes I don’t think we consider all the mechanics at play when we as fans make suggestions.

Yet we can trade for Landry Shamet and sign him to an extension of $10 million a year before he steps on the court for us. Sounds like a good idea to let Ayton go for an $8 million difference. This franchise has pined for a center like Ayton since it’s inception and now that we have one we just let him walk over $8 million??

And Bridges isn’t worth near the max.

Exactly. Just use a $2M player instead of Shamet and spend the extra $8M on Ayton.

[specialsauce]

Another option the Suns won’t do is offer Toronto Bridges for Siakam. Extend Cam J.

Paul
Booker
Cam J
Siakam
DA

[JeremyG]

Deandre Ayton was criminally underused in Phoenix

[Split T]

What they missed is he had a .568 TS% when he got more touches and has been over .650 TS% with CP3.

[TOO]

Facts are often overlooked when you're trying to push a narrative.

[SunsRIt]

Facts are often overlooked when you're trying to push a narrative.

And vice versa

[Mori Chu]

Ayton might be capable of being 25/10, but to do so he would have to improve his ball handling a lot. He gets stripped way too easily and loses the ball when he tries to make a move of more than one dribble or so. I agree that being with CP3 and Book reduced his shots, but if you just throw Ayton the ball and ask him to create offense, at this point in his career you're going to be disappointed.

[Drewsprocket]

Ayton might be capable of being 25/10, but to do so he would have to improve his ball handling a lot. He gets stripped way too easily and loses the ball when he tries to make a move of more than one dribble or so. I agree that being with CP3 and Book reduced his shots, but if you just throw Ayton the ball and ask him to create offense, at this point in his career you're going to be disappointed.

If he goes to Det he’ll become a 25 and 10 guy. And will be lucky to get 25 wins. Fans really pushing a narrative here. Anytime defenses keyed on him, they kept him from getting the ball in his spots and getting scoring comfortably.

[specialsauce]

Ayton might be capable of being 25/10, but to do so he would have to improve his ball handling a lot. He gets stripped way too easily and loses the ball when he tries to make a move of more than one dribble or so. I agree that being with CP3 and Book reduced his shots, but if you just throw Ayton the ball and ask him to create offense, at this point in his career you're going to be disappointed.

If he goes to Det he’ll become a 25 and 10 guy. And will be lucky to get 25 wins. Fans really pushing a narrative here. Anytime defenses keyed on him, they kept him from getting the ball in his spots and getting scoring comfortably.

Yeah. Unlike Booker who just demolished Dallas when they keyed in on him.

[SunsRIt]

Booker is not a type A driven guy. He complained about being doubled in pickup games. You know what Kobe said to that? He said, I would have told them to send another. Big difference.

[Split T]

I’m all for bringing in Hartenstein as an Ayton replacement…and no I don’t think he’s as good, but I think he’s quite underrated.

[Indy]

Booker is not a type A driven guy. He complained about being doubled in pickup games. You know what Kobe said to that? He said, I would have told them to send another. Big difference.

If Booker isn't a Type A guy, Ayton has to be about a D-. There is a WORLD of difference between the two.

I agree Booker hasn't shown himself to be one of the those guys that can bring a team all by himself to a deep playoff run. I mean, there really are only a couple in the league that have shown that.

Steph Curry had less playoff wins, less all-star appearances, and less all-nba selections when he was the same age as Booker. And that was with Klay and Draymond for a few years...

[Superbone]

Booker is not a type A driven guy. He complained about being doubled in pickup games. You know what Kobe said to that? He said, I would have told them to send another. Big difference.

Booker isn't as good as Kobe Bryant?! NO, say it isn't true.