All Things Ayton

[TOO]

[JeremyG]

Gambo just accidentally read directly from his notes, "We like DA." So that came directly from the Suns.

[TOO]

Not sure if you like Gambo or DA more at this point.

[TOO]

[TOO]

Measured takes > blaming Monty

[TOO]

[Shabazz]

Frank Vogel is going to teach him how to dribble, shoot 3s and initiate contact.

Monty forced him to dribble like Stanley from the Office and would fine him if he drew fouls. Ayton and Shamet had secret "line drive" competitions (at Monty's request) and now that they're gone, Ayton will shoot 3s with arc on them.

[JeremyG]

It's going to be so fun reading all of the Ayton haters going apoplectic when it really sinks in that the Suns love Ayton and are keeping him.

"entirely defensive focused"? "defense only player"? It's like he doesn't even understand that Frank Vogel has no desire to use Ayton that way--he wants to develop him offensively, too.

And he destroyed his own argument--if Ayton has never been entirely defensive focused, then that means that we have never been a "real contender"? Even when 2 wins away from a title?

[BKinSJC]

It's going to be so fun reading all of the Ayton haters going apoplectic when it really sinks in that the Suns love Ayton and are keeping him.

"entirely defensive focused"? "defense only player"? It's like he doesn't even understand that Frank Vogel has no desire to use Ayton that way--he wants to develop him offensively, too.

And he destroyed his own argument--if Ayton has never been entirely defensive focused, then that means that we have never been a "real contender"? Even when 2 wins away from a title?

Just because you apparently "love" Ayton, doesn't mean that the organization feels the same way. I am 100% certain that if they could have included his salary rather than those of Mikal and Cam in the KD trade, they would have done that; the Nets apparently did not "love" that idea. I'm fairly certain that if Washington would have wanted him rather than an expiring contract (CP3) that they could flip for assets, the Suns would have traded Ayton in the Beal deal, as well.

In the meantime, they are definitely listening to offers for him. I'm guessing that, given the way Ayton has played for most of the last two seasons and the money that's owed to him going forward, those offers have been garbage. Just because they won't give him away for garbage does not imply that they "love" him. Vogel saying nice things about him strikes me as a coach who realizes that he has a mentally fragile player, and that he's taking steps to try to establish a relationship. This is fine, and is what a new coach should do coming into that kind of a situation.

Also, just because most of the board does not share your quasi-rational takes on Ayton, does not make most of us "haters". The majority of us are Suns fans, first and foremost. We want to see a way forward for the team to be successful. It's not irrational hate to realize that Ayton has played poorly for a couple of years, and that his salary and the lack of progress in his game are detriments to the team being as successful as it could be. At the same time, I think that most of us hope that, failing to trade him for pieces that could actually lead to the team being successful, the next best thing would be for Ayton to play in such a way that is good for the team's success.

Speaking for myself, I don't want Ayton to fail due to some kind of personal vendetta against him. He just hasn't given any reason to suppose that he realizes what it takes to be a winning player in the NBA. Maybe this new coaching staff can help him do that. I guess that's the hope.

[TOO]

Well said BJ.

It's never been personal, it's price per performance. 30m for Ayton is bad, now consider team structure and lack of depth and its even worse.

[Flagrant Fowl]

Mike Vigil saying it with his chest, and I'm here for it.

[Split T]

I have to believe Gambo is just being fed a smokescreen to raise the price. That or he’s knowingly doing us a solid and Ishbia told him he’d get great info if he helped drive up the price. I just can’t understand not trading Ayton when our depth is what it is

[JeremyG]

It's going to be so fun reading all of the Ayton haters going apoplectic when it really sinks in that the Suns love Ayton and are keeping him.

"entirely defensive focused"? "defense only player"? It's like he doesn't even understand that Frank Vogel has no desire to use Ayton that way--he wants to develop him offensively, too.

And he destroyed his own argument--if Ayton has never been entirely defensive focused, then that means that we have never been a "real contender"? Even when 2 wins away from a title?

Just because you apparently "love" Ayton, doesn't mean that the organization feels the same way. I am 100% certain that if they could have included his salary rather than those of Mikal and Cam in the KD trade, they would have done that; the Nets apparently did not "love" that idea. I'm fairly certain that if Washington would have wanted him rather than an expiring contract (CP3) that they could flip for assets, the Suns would have traded Ayton in the Beal deal, as well.

In the meantime, they are definitely listening to offers for him. I'm guessing that, given the way Ayton has played for most of the last two seasons and the money that's owed to him going forward, those offers have been garbage. Just because they won't give him away for garbage does not imply that they "love" him. Vogel saying nice things about him strikes me as a coach who realizes that he has a mentally fragile player, and that he's taking steps to try to establish a relationship. This is fine, and is what a new coach should do coming into that kind of a situation.

Also, just because most of the board does not share your quasi-rational takes on Ayton, does not make most of us "haters". The majority of us are Suns fans, first and foremost. We want to see a way forward for the team to be successful. It's not irrational hate to realize that Ayton has played poorly for a couple of years, and that his salary and the lack of progress in his game are detriments to the team being as successful as it could be. At the same time, I think that most of us hope that, failing to trade him for pieces that could actually lead to the team being successful, the next best thing would be for Ayton to play in such a way that is good for the team's success.

Speaking for myself, I don't want Ayton to fail due to some kind of personal vendetta against him. He just hasn't given any reason to suppose that he realizes what it takes to be a winning player in the NBA. Maybe this new coaching staff can help him do that. I guess that's the hope.

Whoa hold on a minute. Don't shoot the messenger. I didn't just make that up. "We like DA" is what the Suns told Gambo directly. And sources close to Vogel told him that Vogel "LOVES Ayton." He also gave a lot more details on the specifics of how Vogel feels about Ayton (reminds him of a more skilled and athletic version of Roy Hibbert, says there's a lot more he can get out of him and wants them to give him the chance to coach him, etc.). It was not just Vogel spouting off words at a presser.

And your speculation on the Beal deal is the opposite of reality:



You really think the Wizards would rather have Poole's contract than Ayton? Regardless, I trust Gambo's report and I think another reporter corroborated it as well.

And by "haters," I wasn't even really talking about this board, I was talking about the "professional Ayton haters" on Twitter.

Someone mentioned that just because the coach wants him, doesn't mean they will keep him. But think of it this way: last summer the coach wanted him gone (for Myles Turner), and they still kept him anyway. So why wouldn't they keep him this summer if the new coach wants him? Also, the new owner reportedly likes him as well.

[JeremyG]

I have to believe Gambo is just being fed a smokescreen to raise the price. That or he’s knowingly doing us a solid and Ishbia told him he’d get great info if he helped drive up the price. I just can’t understand not trading Ayton when our depth is what it is

So you're saying that all of Frank's friends (former players, former assistant coaches, etc.) that Gambo talked to are in on the conspiracy, too? Or did Ishbia bribe them also? Plus Ishbia bribed Vogel to say glowing things about Ayton publicly as well?

But I guess I'm the one in denial of reality.

[TOO]

I just think you're nuts because you can't pay your 4th best player 30m and leave your team without a starting PF and a bench full of trash again.

And if they do, they'll pay for it, again.

[JeremyG]

I just think you're nuts because you can't pay your 4th best player 30m and leave your team without a starting PF and a bench full of trash again.

And if they do, they'll pay for it, again.

James Jones just said at the Vogel presser that he still believes we had enough to win the title the last two years. And he even upgraded from Paul to Beal. So he would probably be content to just re-sign his own free agents at this point.

[TOO]

Wouldn't expect a GM to say otherwise. Of course he believes in what they had, he built it, warts and all.

[JeremyG]

If you don't believe his words, how about his actions the last two summers?

[Superbone]

This is fun. I hope this never ends.

[SunsSince92]

If you don't believe his words, how about his actions the last two summers?

His actions involved trying to package Ayton in a deal for Durant for all of last summer ! The Nets made it clear they wanted Bridges over Ayton. When that deal didn't happen, Jones was left scrambling around trying to sign role players from an ever dwindling pool because he'd spent so long trying to get the Durant deal done.

As a consequence, he relied on his faith in continuity and matched the Pacers offer for Ayton to save face. There was no way he was going to come up short on Durant AND allow the former number 1 pick to leave for nothing or do a sign and trade for a player he didn't want (Myles Turner).

I'm not as down on Ayton as many on this board and see him as arguably the best center we have had over the past 30 years. With that said, I think it's a stretch to suggest the Suns are keen to hold onto him when they've spent months trying to shop him over the past year.