Trump 2024

[SunsRIt]

Dude?!? Wtf?

Trump is an "existential threat to American democracy", but I'm not careful or measured? Oh ok.

If he wins, he is effectively a dictator. The US as we knew it will be no more after he wins, which is likely.

The sad thing is you actually believe this.

[Mori Chu]

I'll say two more things before I sign off for the night. We might think Joe Biden is a terrible president and all sorts of other rotten things. But we still pray for his health and safety and that he succeeds as President. We would NEVER wish for any harm to come to him.

Secondly if this wasn't a radical hateful leftist that did this then the only other option is that this was a terrorist that crossed our border illegally likely under orders from a country that fears Trump such as Iran, Russia, China, North Korea or Hamas. More likely the former though but we shall see.

I'll say more tomorrow about your messages JJ. For now I'll say that the way you talked about liberals, I don't feel that way. I really strongly dislike Trump as a politician, but I don't wish death or violence on him or anyone. And I don't support anyone who does. Today a lot of politicians from both parties came together and said the right thing, that this was unconscionable and wrong and that they were grateful Trump was okay. We can all be unified in opposing the awful thing that happened today, rather than pointing fingers and dividing ourselves.

[Antilles]

Pay attention to your thoughts because they become words.
Watch your words, for they become actions.
Pay attention to your actions because they become habits.
Watch your habits, for they become your character.
Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.

I‘ll say no more.

[Superbone]

Both sides have been out of line for years.

That's what is always said when something happens that is blamed on the left - "We need to calm the rhetoric down on both sides" FK that! There is only one side that is violent and full of hate and it's not the right.

Give me a break. January 6th anyone?

[Superbone]

I'll say two more things before I sign off for the night. We might think Joe Biden is a terrible president and all sorts of other rotten things. But we still pray for his health and safety and that he succeeds as President. We would NEVER wish for any harm to come to him.

Secondly if this wasn't a radical hateful leftist that did this then the only other option is that this was a terrorist that crossed our border illegally likely under orders from a country that fears Trump such as Iran, Russia, China, North Korea or Hamas. More likely the former though but we shall see.

Just heard that he's a Republican.

[virtual9mm]

Both sides have been out of line for years.

That's what is always said when something happens that is blamed on the left - "We need to calm the rhetoric down on both sides" FK that! There is only one side that is violent and full of hate and it's not the right.

Give me a break. January 6th anyone?

How easily folks forget that the heart of January 6th was a hard core cadre of ex military with zip ties.

[virtual9mm]

And...the Trump shooter was a registered Republican.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 396853007/

[Kryptonic]

Both sides have been out of line for years.

That's what is always said when something happens that is blamed on the left - "We need to calm the rhetoric down on both sides" FK that! There is only one side that is violent and full of hate and it's not the right.

Give me a break. January 6th anyone?

How easily folks forget that the heart of January 6th was a hard core cadre of ex military with zip ties.

So if I’m hearing this right…. The group of people who call everyone else “sheep” just followed along? funny.

[Kryptonic]

Was this appropriate rhetoric?

These people are deranged.

No…. They’re no different than people who follow and believe everything an orange man says.

Cracks me up how little you think for yourself since you constantly have to search for validation for your feelings on social media…. And also how you can quickly reply to all of this but gaslight the Epstein stuff. Just proves you put the blinders on for things you don’t like.

[In2ition]

No…. They’re no different than people who follow and believe everything an orange man says.

Cracks me up how little you think for yourself since you constantly have to search for validation for your feelings on social media…. And also how you can quickly reply to all of this but gaslight the Epstein stuff. Just proves you put the blinders on for things you don’t like.

Your description is complete garbage nonsense. If I had to search, the amount of vitriol and hate would be endless from the left. And I don't have any idea what you're talking about on the "Epstein stuff". Gaslight what? What kind of nonsense clown hypocrisy are you accusing me of?

[virtual9mm]

I have to be honest here -- I've heard comments wishing that the bullet had killed Trump several times today from several different Americans I know here in Hong Kong. And I'm sure a lot of folks back home wish this, too.

You could think about this as a parallel to the: "What if you could go back in time and kill Hitler" thought exercises we all talked about with friends while drinking back in the day, whether or not it was in college. For some folks, the key question would be whether Trump really is a Hitler. For some, the answer would be "of course". For others, the answer would be "How could you even begin to equate Trump and Hitler". But I wonder if this is the wrong way of thinking about it.

This is the moment where it becomes clear to Americans of all stripes that we're ready and willing to kill folks from the other side. When you're sitting next to someone having a beer, you can have a friendly conversation. But when you've depersonalized each other and made each other conceptual caricatures, it's easy to dehumanize. In reality, MAGA has been talking about wanting to kill LIBS, either aloud or quietly, for some time now. Now, the LIBS are openly talking about wanting to kill MAGA.

We've stopped being one nation, one people, for quite some time now. But today, we crossed one important threshhold that prevents us from descending into civil war.

Edit: I've been using the v9 monicker online for over 25 years now, it was something that I thought was pretty cool when I was a kid in college. Now, I wonder if I need to change it. Not sure yet but it's worth a thought.

[Kryptonic]

No…. They’re no different than people who follow and believe everything an orange man says.

Cracks me up how little you think for yourself since you constantly have to search for validation for your feelings on social media…. And also how you can quickly reply to all of this but gaslight the Epstein stuff. Just proves you put the blinders on for things you don’t like.

Your description is complete garbage nonsense. If I had to search, the amount of vitriol and hate would be endless from the left. And I don't have any idea what you're talking about on the "Epstein stuff". Gaslight what? What kind of nonsense clown hypocrisy are you accusing me of?

Ignorance is bliss.

[Mori Chu]

In2, I know it's an emotional moment, but you're out of line.

No Mori, YOU are out of line. In2intion is exactly right. This was an assassination attempt. And this was brought on by all the hateful rhetoric from Democrats and the main stream media that feed you constant lies and then people like you believe it and get filled up with hate. They say conservatives and people that support Trump are Nazis and racists. They say we are stupid, uneducated backwoods hicks that just believe anything we are told. They turn on their friends and family simply because they support a different political party. I'm surprised this hadn't happened sooner. Many of us have been worried about this exact thing for a very long time. Can you tell me honestly that you haven't in your mind hoped that someone would kill Trump? I mean if you could go back and kill Hitler before he rose to power wouldn't you? That is exactly what Democrats have been saying is that he is Hitler and going to be a dictator. All lies. Remember Steve Scalise getting shot at a baseball game practice where Republicans were targeted? Remember the person that came all the way across the country to assassinate Brett Kavanaugh? Maybe you don't because main stream media doesn't cover it or leaves out pertinent details or twists them.

Now that I've slept on it and have more time to respond, here are my thoughts on this message:

First, we don't yet know much about the shooter. I think it is premature to say whose rhetoric or politics or lies inspired the shooter to try to do what he did. Let's wait to learn more before jumping to that conclusion. (I do think it is likely the simplest explanation that the shooter disliked Trump, but I still want to wait and see. The little info that has emerged about his political views has been unclear; they say he was a registered Republican but also donated $15 to one "blue" cause.)

Secondly, I disagree with your characterization of how I, or liberals, view Republicans. I feel that Trump is a dangerous threat to democracy, yes. But I have factual reasons for this belief, based on Trump's actual behavior as President from 2017-2021 and the things he directly claims he'll do if re-elected. I don't think Republicans are backwoods hicks; they're Americans just like me, in fact several diehard Republicans are people in my immediate family who I love more than just about anyone in the world.

Third, I think we can agree that rhetoric glorifying and encouraging violence is bad. I have been discouraged by several incidents where I feel the Republicans have done such inciteful rhetoric during the Trump / modern era. Examples:

- When Nancy Pelosi's husband was viciously attacked, and Trump and his family and many other Republicans mocked the incident and showed no sadness or solidarity whatsoever.

- Political ads showing Republican politicans shooting guns at Biden, at various "liberal" stuff, glorifying guns and shooting when talking about their campaign against their opponent Democrat. Marjorie Taylor Greene is a strong example of this, as is that recent brunette Republican candidate who has filmed some ads while jogging and then shooting at things, saying not to be "gay and weak."

- Gov. Eric Greitens (R-MO): "We're going RINO hunting."

- Jerone Davison (R), Arizona Congressional Candidate: "When this rifle is the only thing standing between your family and a dozen angry Democrats in Klan hoods, you just might need that semiautomatic."

- Rep. Ken Buck (R-CO): "I have a message for Joe Biden and Beto O’Rourke. If you want to take everyone’s AR-15 in America, why don’t you swing by my office in Washington, D.C., and start with this one."

- Tom Cotton told his followers that if pro-Palestine protestors blocked a road they were driving on, they should "take matters into your own hands."

- Kari Lake said we should "strap on a Glock" to prepare for the coming election.

- GOP Lt. Gov. Mark Robinson last week said, "some folks need killing" about his opponents.

- Kyle Rittenhouse murdered killed two people he politically disagreed with, and the GOP has largely turned him into a beloved celebrity for it.

- Donald Trump himself has incited violence countless times. He told fans at his rally to punch a protestor in the face, to "knock the crap out of him." He incited January 6, a bloody violent insurrection against our country and its government. He celebrated when a group of Republicans surrounded Kamala Harris's campaign bus and almost ran it off the road. On and on.

I could list more. You named some unfortunate incidents where violence was committed or attempted against Republican politicians. These were horrible incidents. I challenge you to find any elected Democrat or candidate who took joy in these incidents, who celebrated them, who made jokes or mocked them. I guarantee that 100% of the messages and words you'll find will condemn these awful incidents as they should be condemned. That is an important difference to me. If you care about rhetoric, look at the rhetoric I have listed above versus any rhetoric you can find from Dem politicians in the face of the possibility of violence. One party condemns it; one party glorifies it.

Last comment: You described my media diet as being full of mainstream media lies and hate. I hope you know that I don't watch any of the TV channels like CNN or MSNBC; I get most of my news from Twitter/X and from reading online newspapers like the WaPo, Seattle Times, and San Jose Mercury News. I go out of my way to follow multiple conservative news sources like The Federalist, WSJ, and the National Review. I will admit that I prefer non-Republican news sites but I try to expose myself to different points of view and not only swim in bias/viewpoint-confirming content. I do agree with you that it is dangerous and bad for all of us to listen to only the voices and sources that we agree with. We should all try to get all sides of a story and make our own decisions.

My last comment: It's clear that a lot of us are upset and emotional after the assassination attempt on Trump. I hope we can keep the conversation in this thread civil. We're all friends here and we're all Americans. Nobody wanted this to happen and we can all talk about it from that starting point.

Those are my long-winded thoughts for now. Thanks for reading.

[Mori Chu]

I separately wanted to speak to the post In2 made where he quoted multiple people on Twitter saying yucky things, such as that they were happy Trump got shot at, or that they wished he had been killed. I'm sure you can find some awful people on social media saying awful things about any topic. I don't see any reason to glorify or discuss them. Those are just random Twitter accounts, and they don't represent the views of any political party or mainstream politician. They're just random assholes. I don't see what is the point of reposting their hateful posts. Is it to imply that all Dems think those things? (They don't.) There's really nothing to say about this; the content is meaningless garbage, and the people who posted it don't represent anybody or any mainstream view.

[virtual9mm]

I separately wanted to speak to the post In2 made where he quoted multiple people on Twitter saying yucky things, such as that they were happy Trump got shot at, or that they wished he had been killed. I'm sure you can find some awful people on social media saying awful things about any topic. I don't see any reason to glorify or discuss them. Those are just random Twitter accounts, and they don't represent the views of any political party or mainstream politician. They're just random assholes. I don't see what is the point of reposting their hateful posts. Is it to imply that all Dems think those things? (They don't.) There's really nothing to say about this; the content is meaningless garbage, and the people who posted it don't represent anybody or any mainstream view.

Like it or not, I'm hearing this from a lot of folks. Stuff like "Why did the gunman have to miss? He had ONE job".

Some skeptical folks, including a friend who was jailed on trumped up charges (no pun intended) via the China Initiative (a white guy, actually), think the entire thing was a setup. That the Secret Service let the gunman crawl up like he did and stay there for four minutes even after someone warned them reeks of either incompetence or collusion of some sort. And if there were collusion, who was doing the colluding? But we'll never really know, will we.

It would have been better had there never been an assassination attempt. But with a failed assassination attempt, Trump lives and has been made a hero. And the MAGA folks are incensed and out for blood, and I'm sure that Trump will fan the flames, and the flames may engulf the entire country.

[virtual9mm]

Just to be clear, this is what I mean by "civil war":

“In recent years, Americans have contemplated a worst-case scenario, in which the country’s extreme and widening divisions lead to a second Civil War,” she noted. “But what the country is experiencing now—and will likely continue to experience for a generation or more—is something different. The form of extremism we face is a new phase of domestic terror, one characterized by radicalized individuals with shape-shifting ideologies willing to kill their political enemies. Unchecked, it promises an era of slow-motion anarchy.”

Article is a good recap of all the political violence we've seen in recent years.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... ce/679000/?

[virtual9mm]

Also for the record, the shooter was a white, pro-gun Republican who gave $15 to ActBlue after January 6th. Probably someone you would call a RINO.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... t-suspect/

[ShadowHawke]

Third, I think we can agree that rhetoric glorifying and encouraging violence is bad.

- Kyle Rittenhouse murdered two people he politically disagreed with, and the GOP has largely turned him into a beloved celebrity for it.

Kyle was found not guilty. This is how the rhetoric starts. You are allowed to feel about the incident however you want.

[Mori Chu]

Third, I think we can agree that rhetoric glorifying and encouraging violence is bad.

- Kyle Rittenhouse murdered two people he politically disagreed with, and the GOP has largely turned him into a beloved celebrity for it.

Kyle was found not guilty. This is how the rhetoric starts. You are allowed to feel about the incident however you want.

"Murdered" is a strong word by me, but, the dude shows up at a protest with an automatic weapon and starts cruising around looking for trouble. Two guys chase him, so he guns them down and kills them. He was found not guilty, but, so was OJ. To me Rittenhouse is a killer who showed up excited to put himself in a situation where he could find an excuse to shoot protesters dead.

Me criticizing this guy with his gun boner is not "how the rhetoric starts." I'm *criticizing* violence. I'm not celebrating it or encouraging it. I want no guns, no shooting, no violence. I do not want people showing up to protests with automatic guns ready to shoot each other. Can we agree that I am advocating for non-violence here?

[Mori Chu]

Also for the record, the shooter was a white, pro-gun Republican who gave $15 to ActBlue after January 6th. Probably someone you would call a RINO.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... t-suspect/

Until I hear more, he's a Republican. That's what he was registered as. I think calling him a "RINO" is dismissing his registered political party too quickly. But let's wait until we know more.