2025 NBA Offseason News

[O_Gardino]

Rebounding has shifted away from the bigs in the modern nba.

Offences are very intentional about pulling bigs out of the paint and making them guard the 3pt line, and that leads to lots of shots going up with the bigs way out of position to grab a defensive rebound. On the other side of the ball it's the same thing. There are just fewer offensive rebounds for players who are behind the 3pt line to stretch out the defense. I personally don't care which player on the team gets the rebound, as long as the Suns get the ball.

I don't think JJJ is a terrible rebounder - I think he's a good perimeter and help defender.

[JeremyG]

Weird how all these non-Ayton bigs are “garbage.”

To me a big isn’t even a big if they can’t rebound. And we don’t have any good rebounders to put around him either, unless we want to start Richards next to him.

Who are you taking: Amare in his prime or Ayton from 2021-2022 season?

Ayton for sure—better defense and rebounding, which is what I want from a big. Plus much more efficient offensively.

[TOO]

Rebounding has shifted away from the bigs in the modern nba.

Offences are very intentional about pulling bigs out of the paint and making them guard the 3pt line, and that leads to lots of shots going up with the bigs way out of position to grab a defensive rebound. On the other side of the ball it's the same thing. There are just fewer offensive rebounds for players who are behind the 3pt line to stretch out the defense. I personally don't care which player on the team gets the rebound, as long as the Suns get the ball.

I don't think JJJ is a terrible rebounder - I think he's a good perimeter and help defender.

JJJ is a terrible rebounder. Always has been, even in college.

[Mori Chu]

Who are you taking: Amare in his prime or Ayton from 2021-2022 season?

Ayton for sure—better defense and rebounding, which is what I want from a big. Plus much more efficient offensively.

This take is just wild. Exactly what year(s) constitute Amare's prime are debatable; he had several exceptional seasons with some bumps and injuries in between. His highest scoring average was 2004-05 when he had 26 ppg and 8.9 reb, but imo he averaged better overall stats in 2007-08 (25.2 ppg on .590 / .161 / .805 splits; 9.1 reb; 1.5 ast; 2.1 blk), which I think I would tag as his peak year overall. He also had a nice resurgence in 2010-11, his first year in NYK, with 25.3 / 8.2. He fell off after that.

Ayton had some impressive stats for a few years, averaging around 18 ppg and 10-11 rpg for some years straight, with very good FG%. His ast, stl, blk numbers are much lower than Amare's. And the stats don't really capture the passiveness and lethargy of Ayton's play vs Amare's. Amare was a total phenomenon, almost an offense by himself, a finisher who would storm the basket and dunk over everyone and electrify the crowd and team, an electric and exciting player. Ayton is a calm, patient, often lackadaisical player who rarely attacked the basket, and outside of the exceptional Valley-oop, I can't think of a single time he fired up the team or fans. Overall I don't think any Ayton season comes close to the impact and excitement of Amare's 2007-08 or 04-05, and it is not even close.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... dam01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... nde01.html

[JeremyG]

Who are you taking: Amare in his prime or Ayton from 2021-2022 season?

Ayton for sure—better defense and rebounding, which is what I want from a big. Plus much more efficient offensively.

This take is just wild. Exactly what year(s) constitute Amare's prime are debatable; he had several exceptional seasons with some bumps and injuries in between. His highest scoring average was 2004-05 when he had 26 ppg and 8.9 reb, but imo he averaged better overall stats in 2007-08 (25.2 ppg on .590 / .161 / .805 splits; 9.1 reb; 1.5 ast; 2.1 blk), which I think I would tag as his peak year overall. He also had a nice resurgence in 2010-11, his first year in NYK, with 25.3 / 8.2. He fell off after that.

Ayton had some impressive stats for a few years, averaging around 18 ppg and 10-11 rpg for some years straight, with very good FG%. His ast, stl, blk numbers are much lower than Amare's. And the stats don't really capture the passiveness and lethargy of Ayton's play vs Amare's. Amare was a total phenomenon, almost an offense by himself, a finisher who would storm the basket and dunk over everyone and electrify the crowd and team, an electric and exciting player. Ayton is a calm, patient, often lackadaisical player who rarely attacked the basket, and outside of the exceptional Valley-oop, I can't think of a single time he fired up the team or fans. Overall I don't think any Ayton season comes close to the impact and excitement of Amare's 2007-08 or 04-05, and it is not even close.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... dam01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... nde01.html

Are we turning yet another thread into an Ayton thread? Ayton did not get the ball nearly as often as Amare, so comparing PPG is useless. But like I said, I care more about the defense and rebounding anyway. (See my advocating for getting Gobert in other threads, for example.)

[SunsRIt]

Amare all day long. No question.

[Superbone]

Amare all day long. No question.

None. The desire to be the best is a clear distinction. The other A just desired that next big contract.

[Superbone]

OK, I think we've met our Ayton quota for this thread now.

[JeremyG]

OK, I think we've met our Ayton quota for this thread now.

Well I guess it’s appropriate that someone asked me the question on the 7th anniversary of me joining this forum.

[Split T]

Weird how all these non-Ayton bigs are “garbage.”

To me a big isn’t even a big if they can’t rebound. And we don’t have any good rebounders to put around him either, unless we want to start Richards next to him.

Who are you taking: Amare in his prime or Ayton from 2021-2022 season?

Ayton for sure—better defense and rebounding, which is what I want from a big. Plus much more efficient offensively.

Sometimes I’m convinced this is just a bit.

Also your much more efficient offensively statement is just not true.

Amare TS%/TS+/USG during his prime:

.617/117/28.3
.637/118/25.8
.656/122/28.2
.617/113/24.2
.615/113/27.3

.606/113/26.2(Suns career)

Here’s Ayton:

.608/109/21.2
.568/101/23.7
.653/114/18.2
.656/116/21.4
.617/106/22.9

.622/109/22.3(Suns career)

Not to mention Ayton should be in his prime now and he’s getting worse:

.587/101/20.4(Portland Career)

Not only did Amare basically have the same peak in raw TS%, he did it in an era that was much less efficient and he did it on a much higher usage rate. I’m sorry, but there’s zero argument for Ayton offensively over Amare.

By the way, Amare made 4 All-NBA teams(1 1st, 3 2nd) and received MVP votes in 4 different years.

Based on your reasoning though, I’m shocked you aren’t the biggest Tyson Chandler fan…he was more efficient than both, a better rebounder than both, and a better defender than both. He should check all your boxes.

[TOO]

Weird how all these non-Ayton bigs are “garbage.”

To me a big isn’t even a big if they can’t rebound. And we don’t have any good rebounders to put around him either, unless we want to start Richards next to him.

Who are you taking: Amare in his prime or Ayton from 2021-2022 season?

Ayton for sure—better defense and rebounding, which is what I want from a big. Plus much more efficient offensively.

Sometimes I’m convinced this is just a bit.

Also your much more efficient offensively statement is just not true.

Amare TS%/TS+/USG during his prime:

.617/117/28.3
.637/118/25.8
.656/122/28.2
.617/113/24.2
.615/113/27.3

.606/113/26.2(Suns career)

Here’s Ayton:

.608/109/21.2
.568/101/23.7
.653/114/18.2
.656/116/21.4
.617/106/22.9

.622/109/22.3(Suns career)

Not to mention Ayton should be in his prime now and he’s getting worse:

.587/101/20.4(Portland Career)

Not only did Amare basically have the same peak in raw TS%, he did it in an era that was much less efficient and he did it on a much higher usage rate. I’m sorry, but there’s zero argument for Ayton offensively over Amare.

By the way, Amare made 4 All-NBA teams(1 1st, 3 2nd) and received MVP votes in 4 different years.

Based on your reasoning though, I’m shocked you aren’t the biggest Tyson Chandler fan…he was more efficient than both, a better rebounder than both, and a better defender than both. He should check all your boxes.

Stop the count.

[iLLmatic]

Weird how all these non-Ayton bigs are “garbage.”

To me a big isn’t even a big if they can’t rebound. And we don’t have any good rebounders to put around him either, unless we want to start Richards next to him.

Who are you taking: Amare in his prime or Ayton from 2021-2022 season?

Ayton for sure—better defense and rebounding, which is what I want from a big. Plus much more efficient offensively.

I just wanted to confirm my suspicions lol

[JeremyG]

Weird how all these non-Ayton bigs are “garbage.”

To me a big isn’t even a big if they can’t rebound. And we don’t have any good rebounders to put around him either, unless we want to start Richards next to him.

Who are you taking: Amare in his prime or Ayton from 2021-2022 season?

Ayton for sure—better defense and rebounding, which is what I want from a big. Plus much more efficient offensively.

Sometimes I’m convinced this is just a bit.

Also your much more efficient offensively statement is just not true.

Amare TS%/TS+/USG during his prime:

.617/117/28.3
.637/118/25.8
.656/122/28.2
.617/113/24.2
.615/113/27.3

.606/113/26.2(Suns career)

Here’s Ayton:

.608/109/21.2
.568/101/23.7
.653/114/18.2
.656/116/21.4
.617/106/22.9

.622/109/22.3(Suns career)

Not to mention Ayton should be in his prime now and he’s getting worse:

.587/101/20.4(Portland Career)

Not only did Amare basically have the same peak in raw TS%, he did it in an era that was much less efficient and he did it on a much higher usage rate. I’m sorry, but there’s zero argument for Ayton offensively over Amare.

By the way, Amare made 4 All-NBA teams(1 1st, 3 2nd) and received MVP votes in 4 different years.

Based on your reasoning though, I’m shocked you aren’t the biggest Tyson Chandler fan…he was more efficient than both, a better rebounder than both, and a better defender than both. He should check all your boxes.

We don’t know what Ayton would have done with Nash.

But it’s not just about Ayton. I never liked Amare when he was here. And I was ecstatic when we got Tyson Chandler, it’s just too bad he was past his prime by the time we finally got him.

[SunsRIt]

To me a big isn’t even a big if they can’t rebound. And we don’t have any good rebounders to put around him either, unless we want to start Richards next to him.

Who are you taking: Amare in his prime or Ayton from 2021-2022 season?

Ayton for sure—better defense and rebounding, which is what I want from a big. Plus much more efficient offensively.

Sometimes I’m convinced this is just a bit.

Also your much more efficient offensively statement is just not true.

Amare TS%/TS+/USG during his prime:

.617/117/28.3
.637/118/25.8
.656/122/28.2
.617/113/24.2
.615/113/27.3

.606/113/26.2(Suns career)

Here’s Ayton:

.608/109/21.2
.568/101/23.7
.653/114/18.2
.656/116/21.4
.617/106/22.9

.622/109/22.3(Suns career)

Not to mention Ayton should be in his prime now and he’s getting worse:

.587/101/20.4(Portland Career)

Not only did Amare basically have the same peak in raw TS%, he did it in an era that was much less efficient and he did it on a much higher usage rate. I’m sorry, but there’s zero argument for Ayton offensively over Amare.

By the way, Amare made 4 All-NBA teams(1 1st, 3 2nd) and received MVP votes in 4 different years.

Based on your reasoning though, I’m shocked you aren’t the biggest Tyson Chandler fan…he was more efficient than both, a better rebounder than both, and a better defender than both. He should check all your boxes.

We don’t know what Ayton would have done with Nash.

But it’s not just about Ayton. I never liked Amare when he was here. And I was ecstatic when we got Tyson Chandler, it’s just too bad he was past his prime by the time we finally got him.

As if we needed more proof of your lack of basketball knowledge. This says it all.

[specialsauce]

Amare might be my favorite Sun ever, DA will never sniff the ROH

[SunsRIt]

Amare might be my favorite Sun ever, DA will never sniff the ROH

My thoughts exactly. It’s a toss up between Majerle and Amare.

[Kryptonic]

Amare might be my favorite Sun ever, DA will never sniff the ROH

Yup…, it’s all about the legacy you leave. Hard to leave a legacy when you can’t leave your 2k tourney because of icy roads. Look at Halliburton playing hurt because that’s what you do when you’re staring down elimination and a championship run.

[Split T]

To me a big isn’t even a big if they can’t rebound. And we don’t have any good rebounders to put around him either, unless we want to start Richards next to him.

Who are you taking: Amare in his prime or Ayton from 2021-2022 season?

Ayton for sure—better defense and rebounding, which is what I want from a big. Plus much more efficient offensively.

Sometimes I’m convinced this is just a bit.

Also your much more efficient offensively statement is just not true.

Amare TS%/TS+/USG during his prime:

.617/117/28.3
.637/118/25.8
.656/122/28.2
.617/113/24.2
.615/113/27.3

.606/113/26.2(Suns career)

Here’s Ayton:

.608/109/21.2
.568/101/23.7
.653/114/18.2
.656/116/21.4
.617/106/22.9

.622/109/22.3(Suns career)

Not to mention Ayton should be in his prime now and he’s getting worse:

.587/101/20.4(Portland Career)

Not only did Amare basically have the same peak in raw TS%, he did it in an era that was much less efficient and he did it on a much higher usage rate. I’m sorry, but there’s zero argument for Ayton offensively over Amare.

By the way, Amare made 4 All-NBA teams(1 1st, 3 2nd) and received MVP votes in 4 different years.

Based on your reasoning though, I’m shocked you aren’t the biggest Tyson Chandler fan…he was more efficient than both, a better rebounder than both, and a better defender than both. He should check all your boxes.

We don’t know what Ayton would have done with Nash.

But it’s not just about Ayton. I never liked Amare when he was here. And I was ecstatic when we got Tyson Chandler, it’s just too bad he was past his prime by the time we finally got him.

He had Chris Paul

[TOO]

Who are you taking: Amare in his prime or Ayton from 2021-2022 season?

Ayton for sure—better defense and rebounding, which is what I want from a big. Plus much more efficient offensively.

Sometimes I’m convinced this is just a bit.

Also your much more efficient offensively statement is just not true.

Amare TS%/TS+/USG during his prime:

.617/117/28.3
.637/118/25.8
.656/122/28.2
.617/113/24.2
.615/113/27.3

.606/113/26.2(Suns career)

Here’s Ayton:

.608/109/21.2
.568/101/23.7
.653/114/18.2
.656/116/21.4
.617/106/22.9

.622/109/22.3(Suns career)

Not to mention Ayton should be in his prime now and he’s getting worse:

.587/101/20.4(Portland Career)

Not only did Amare basically have the same peak in raw TS%, he did it in an era that was much less efficient and he did it on a much higher usage rate. I’m sorry, but there’s zero argument for Ayton offensively over Amare.

By the way, Amare made 4 All-NBA teams(1 1st, 3 2nd) and received MVP votes in 4 different years.

Based on your reasoning though, I’m shocked you aren’t the biggest Tyson Chandler fan…he was more efficient than both, a better rebounder than both, and a better defender than both. He should check all your boxes.

We don’t know what Ayton would have done with Nash.

But it’s not just about Ayton. I never liked Amare when he was here. And I was ecstatic when we got Tyson Chandler, it’s just too bad he was past his prime by the time we finally got him.

He had Chris Paul

Semantics

[JeremyG]

Who are you taking: Amare in his prime or Ayton from 2021-2022 season?

Ayton for sure—better defense and rebounding, which is what I want from a big. Plus much more efficient offensively.

Sometimes I’m convinced this is just a bit.

Also your much more efficient offensively statement is just not true.

Amare TS%/TS+/USG during his prime:

.617/117/28.3
.637/118/25.8
.656/122/28.2
.617/113/24.2
.615/113/27.3

.606/113/26.2(Suns career)

Here’s Ayton:

.608/109/21.2
.568/101/23.7
.653/114/18.2
.656/116/21.4
.617/106/22.9

.622/109/22.3(Suns career)

Not to mention Ayton should be in his prime now and he’s getting worse:

.587/101/20.4(Portland Career)

Not only did Amare basically have the same peak in raw TS%, he did it in an era that was much less efficient and he did it on a much higher usage rate. I’m sorry, but there’s zero argument for Ayton offensively over Amare.

By the way, Amare made 4 All-NBA teams(1 1st, 3 2nd) and received MVP votes in 4 different years.

Based on your reasoning though, I’m shocked you aren’t the biggest Tyson Chandler fan…he was more efficient than both, a better rebounder than both, and a better defender than both. He should check all your boxes.

We don’t know what Ayton would have done with Nash.

But it’s not just about Ayton. I never liked Amare when he was here. And I was ecstatic when we got Tyson Chandler, it’s just too bad he was past his prime by the time we finally got him.

As if we needed more proof of your lack of basketball knowledge. This says it all.

How many NBA Finals did Amare take us to?

I’m not a big fan of basketball players who don’t play defense. My favorite player during that era was Shawn Marion. He also averaged more rebounds as a significantly smaller 3/4 than Amare did as a 4/5.

P.S. Did the man in my signature have a lack of basketball knowledge?