Around the NBA: Week 23 (3/23- 3/29)

[Superbone]

Since you won't answer my question, I did my own research:

The Lottery Wheel: A radical, complete and long-overdue fix for NBA tanking
https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/article/th ... 35615.html

[Split T]

But that’s not true…The Wheel completely eliminates tanking…doesn’t just make it harder and less advantageous. It makes it impossible.

What about convincing $$$ a prospect to stay one more year at college or abroad in order to play for the Lakers instead of Washington?

The team can do it through their agents or some booster, and even with inherent injury risk, the payoff on exposure, sponsors and life quality might affect many athletes plans.

And we are assuming as well that every team will start competing after getting their #1 pick, but some Teams might prefer to monetize it.

That’s like what the clippers did with Kawhi…so against the rules and would be punished severely. But yes, teams could try and break the rules…but that doesn’t have anything to do with tanking.

[Split T]

Since you won't answer my question, I did my own research:

The Lottery Wheel: A radical, complete and long-overdue fix for NBA tanking
https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/article/th ... 35615.html

My bad Bone…I had started typing up a response to you originally and then something came up and I abandoned it and forgot to come back and finish.

[Mori Chu]

I don't like the Wheel. It seems like a neat idea that will eliminate tanking by just giving each team a certain # pick on a given set schedule. But (controversial opinion alert) I actually don't want that system. I WANT the teams that are bad to get better picks, so that they can get better. Obviously any system that gives worse teams better picks leads to the potential for tanking. But I'd rather fight that battle than see the rich get richer by giving great lottery picks to teams that are already playoff teams or contenders.

[Split T]

That’s fine…I would rather not reward the same incompetent franchises over and over and force the best prospects to start their careers on terribly run franchises that will inevitably ruin the start of their careers.

Make teams be competent if they want to win and don’t give them handouts. I guess that makes me an NBA republican lol

[Superbone]

Since you won't answer my question, I did my own research:

The Lottery Wheel: A radical, complete and long-overdue fix for NBA tanking
https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/article/th ... 35615.html

My bad Bone…I had started typing up a response to you originally and then something came up and I abandoned it and forgot to come back and finish.

No worries. I like the idea. But I would hate it if by some freak thing OKC got the #1 pick.

[Split T]

They could get it this year with the current rules.

[Mori Chu]

They could get it this year with the current rules.

Not really. That isn't their pick; that's another team's pick that has been traded to them. The draft lottery system in no way is bestowing the #1 pick on OKC nor is there any way for it to do so. It gives it to another team, which in this case may be the team that traded its #1 pick to OKC. That's not the fault of the current lottery system. The wheel would make it so that OKC's *own* pick could end up at #1 even if they were the best team in the league.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

But that’s not true…The Wheel completely eliminates tanking…doesn’t just make it harder and less advantageous. It makes it impossible.

What about convincing $$$ a prospect to stay one more year at college or abroad in order to play for the Lakers instead of Washington?

The team can do it through their agents or some booster, and even with inherent injury risk, the payoff on exposure, sponsors and life quality might affect many athletes plans.

And we are assuming as well that every team will start competing after getting their #1 pick, but some Teams might prefer to monetize it.

That’s like what the clippers did with Kawhi…so against the rules and would be punished severely. But yes, teams could try and break the rules…but that doesn’t have anything to do with tanking.

Boosters exists from a long time ago, and Kobe himself refused to play for no team but the Lakers, so that’s easier said than done.

[Split T]

They could get it this year with the current rules.

Not really. That isn't their pick; that's another team's pick that has been traded to them. The draft lottery system in no way is bestowing the #1 pick on OKC nor is there any way for it to do so. It gives it to another team, which in this case may be the team that traded its #1 pick to OKC. That's not the fault of the current lottery system. The wheel would make it so that OKC's *own* pick could end up at #1 even if they were the best team in the league.

Does it really matter how it happens? OKC could literally win the title and pick 1st in the draft a few weeks later.

The Wheel is fair. Ya OKC could win the title and get the 1st pick, but every team in the league will get the 1st pick at some point. Just as every team in the league will pick last. You’ll know exactly when you have good picks and can plan your team building accordingly. There’s no issue with winning too many games to ruin your draft slot…there’s no getting stuck in mediocrity with no way out. No protecting picks.

[Split T]

But that’s not true…The Wheel completely eliminates tanking…doesn’t just make it harder and less advantageous. It makes it impossible.

What about convincing $$$ a prospect to stay one more year at college or abroad in order to play for the Lakers instead of Washington?

The team can do it through their agents or some booster, and even with inherent injury risk, the payoff on exposure, sponsors and life quality might affect many athletes plans.

And we are assuming as well that every team will start competing after getting their #1 pick, but some Teams might prefer to monetize it.

That’s like what the clippers did with Kawhi…so against the rules and would be punished severely. But yes, teams could try and break the rules…but that doesn’t have anything to do with tanking.

Boosters exists from a long time ago, and Kobe himself refused to play for no team but the Lakers, so that’s easier said than done.

So you’re saying it’s already happening with the current system…so not a new problem created by The Wheel

[Aztec Sunsfan]

But that’s not true…The Wheel completely eliminates tanking…doesn’t just make it harder and less advantageous. It makes it impossible.

What about convincing $$$ a prospect to stay one more year at college or abroad in order to play for the Lakers instead of Washington?

The team can do it through their agents or some booster, and even with inherent injury risk, the payoff on exposure, sponsors and life quality might affect many athletes plans.

And we are assuming as well that every team will start competing after getting their #1 pick, but some Teams might prefer to monetize it.

That’s like what the clippers did with Kawhi…so against the rules and would be punished severely. But yes, teams could try and break the rules…but that doesn’t have anything to do with tanking.

Boosters exists from a long time ago, and Kobe himself refused to play for no team but the Lakers, so that’s easier said than done.

So you’re saying it’s already happening with the current system…so not a new problem created by The Wheel

No, I’m saying the conditions to take clear advantage from something as rigid as the wheel are already in place.

[Split T]

And we’re seeing blatant taking advantage of the current system that’s visible every night.

Is it possible you get a guy that waits a year to enter the draft? Sure, but they are costing themselves money and they can’t just force there way to any team…it’s the current #1 pick or the next years pick. I also just don’t care if they do that. I’m all for rookies having more say on where they play.

What I don’t want to keep seeing is 10 teams losing on purpose for half the season. I went through the schedule a couple days ago and there was 52 games in a 7 day stretch…32 of them involved a team tanking. Less than 40% of the games are worth watching as an nba fan…that’s pretty disgusting. The Wheel fixes that…that’s my main point.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

And we’re seeing blatant taking advantage of the current system that’s visible every night.

Is it possible you get a guy that waits a year to enter the draft? Sure, but they are costing themselves money and they can’t just force there way to any team…it’s the current #1 pick or the next years pick. I also just don’t care if they do that. I’m all for rookies having more say on where they play.

What I don’t want to keep seeing is 10 teams losing on purpose for half the season. I went through the schedule a couple days ago and there was 52 games in a 7 day stretch…32 of them involved a team tanking. Less than 40% of the games are worth watching as an nba fan…that’s pretty disgusting. The Wheel fixes that…that’s my main point.

The wheel just will change one set of problems for another different set of problems, that’s my point.The Leonard issue is not even a proven violation and is dragging the league down. With the wheel in place, the league will have the annual suspicions/scandal on fixed draft declarations and problems with really shallow years as blue chippers will prefer to wait for better situations.

The talent disparity will keep making a lot of games unwatchable, and having juggernauts regularly getting cheap top rookie talent will feel as unfair as the Warriors signing Durant back in the day. And guess what, rookies spurning small markets was the original reason that originated draft systems, so it’s easy to predict that this will increase to a degree that will call for another change in rules. I’m sure your advocacy for players controlling their destinations will dilute a big deal when the next Wembayama stays on Europe for one more year in order to play for the Lakers instead of Phoenix.

Keep pumping the wheel up, but open your eyes to the fact that it’s not a panacea.

[Split T]

All I’ve said is it eliminates tanking. I’m not saying it fixes everything.

But I think you vastly overestimate how many guys would use it to their advantage. It might happen a couple times a decade. I’ll take that over a terrible product a couple times a night.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

And I think you underrated it, I’m certain I wouldn’t want to be the team stuck on the wheel selecting one year before any of the LA teams, Miami, New York and Golden State, and you can throw Chicago, Boston and any team with a non-tax fiscal regime as a next tier.

Right now it’s a two-time-for-decade thing, because the incentives are not aligned for it to become a yearly thing, mainly because the lottery erase the certainty needed to bet on a one year waiting period. And it will happen with the most precious and profitable rookies, so that backlash will be enough to stir the league even if it’s only a 3 times a decade thing.

[ShelC]

This is all beyond me but I do wonder why it's such an issue now when teams have been doing it for years. The Sixers' had almost a 5 year plan to tank and ended up with Fultz, Embiid, and Simmons. The Spurs tanked the past 3 years for Wemby, Castle and Harper. Those teams were openly doing it. I get that maybe more teams are doing it now, and it's a weird situation with the Pacers tanking after they were in the Finals last year. I guess the noise is louder now but I think it probably has more to do with money and gambling being involved.

What if there were just restrictions similar to not being able to trade draft picks two years in a row - you can't draft in the top 8 two years in row after you've had a top 3 pick and/or you can't be in the top 3 for five years after you've had that top 3 pick. So take the Spurs for instance:

2023- #1 pick Wemby
2024- even if they have the 2nd worst record they're drafting 9th, so no Stephon Castle at 4
2025- No higher than 9th so no Dylan Harper
2026-2027- no matter how many games they lose they can't draft higher than 4th

I guess that bumps teams up and down the draft order but it is what it is. The point would be that it takes away the incentive to purposely lose games and try for the worst record for multiple years and maybe motivates teams to try and be better quicker.

[pickle]

[pickle]

[Split T]

This is all beyond me but I do wonder why it's such an issue now when teams have been doing it for years. The Sixers' had almost a 5 year plan to tank and ended up with Fultz, Embiid, and Simmons. The Spurs tanked the past 3 years for Wemby, Castle and Harper. Those teams were openly doing it. I get that maybe more teams are doing it now, and it's a weird situation with the Pacers tanking after they were in the Finals last year. I guess the noise is louder now but I think it probably has more to do with money and gambling being involved.

What if there were just restrictions similar to not being able to trade draft picks two years in a row - you can't draft in the top 8 two years in row after you've had a top 3 pick and/or you can't be in the top 3 for five years after you've had that top 3 pick. So take the Spurs for instance:

2023- #1 pick Wemby
2024- even if they have the 2nd worst record they're drafting 9th, so no Stephon Castle at 4
2025- No higher than 9th so no Dylan Harper
2026-2027- no matter how many games they lose they can't draft higher than 4th

I guess that bumps teams up and down the draft order but it is what it is. The point would be that it takes away the incentive to purposely lose games and try for the worst record for multiple years and maybe motivates teams to try and be better quicker.

It’s been a problem for awhile…. Didn’t the league step in and basically kick hinkie out of Philly? Teams have always gotten some crap for tanking…it’s just getting worse and I do think the gambling aspect is making it worse.