Game of Thrones

[Flagrant Fowl]

Just wanted to let you folks know that the first four episodes of season 5 have been leaked onto the web.

[carey]

Yeah I think I'll wait and watch them weekly with the rest of the folks on Twitter and such.

[TOO]

Same, I have them all but didn't wanna go a month with no show waiting for it to catch up.

[Ghost]

This is getting interesting. We knew it would happen, since GRRM writes at a pace that is comparable to the half-life of uranium, but the show is most definitely starting to take some big turns from the books. I'll reserve judgment, of course, but I think they are largely for the better so far. Not that what he's doing in the books doesn't work, but the pacing would just become intolerable when moved to the small screen.

Spoiler: show/hide

And while the official word is that Lady Stoneheart is out...I have my doubts, and I think she may well show up next season. Introducing her where we expected her would have meant a full season of her sitting around with nothing to do, just like Bran and Hodor have nothing to do. But next season? I can see it happening.

[carey]

Do you think the big event that happens to the Ice in ASoIaF will happen at the end of this season?

[Ghost]

OK, the way you worded "to the Ice" makes me wonder what you mean. Clarify in a spoiler tag? I do think that the Big Event will happen.

[Ghost]

OK, here's a question that doesn't involve any spoilers (unless someone wants to force them in). After this season, the show will largely be caught up with the books (some stories will lag a little, others will certainly be ahead, or rather, branched off). GRRM says to this day that it is a seven book series...I don't believe him, because I don't see it getting resolved in 3000 pages, but that's not the point. At his pace, he will finish sometime in 2078.

Realistically, we have two years left in the show after this season. He has also already told them how it ends (or is supposed to end, according to what I've read).

That potentially leaves years in which they could expand or build out entire new stories to tell. Would you want to see, let's say, a 10-year series that will still be over before ASOIAF, the novels, are done...likely well in advance of the conclusion of the books, that actually spoil the novels to some extent?

Personally, I would. I trust the writers and directors and I think GRRM would stay involved and the whole thing would remain a solid show. But, that's a long time for a show like this to be on air. I want it to end like Breaking Bad, at the top of its game without ever missing a beat...but I want the whole thing to stay for as long as possible. And he's only got so much story left to stay true-ish to the novels. Also, if he's going to take this long to write, then they might as well milk the show for all it's worth.

[Mori Chu]

I think it's going to get ugly with GRRM once the show officially passes the books. He seems upset about it. I think he will start doing silly things like disowning the show out of spite.

[Ghost]

I think it's going to get ugly with GRRM once the show officially passes the books. He seems upset about it. I think he will start doing silly things like disowning the show out of spite.

I think you may be right, and that will be unfortunate. But, it will also mean that we have two awesome GOT stories to read/watch, because I have full faith in the writers to do this show correctly. I guess he could sabotage his legacy and make Hodor king of the world (which would be awesome and awful all at once), but he signed on, and if he can't keep up the pace, this was going to happen from day one.

[carey]

The series is called a Song of Ice and Fire. I actually get really annoyed that no one calls it that and only refers to it by Game of Thrones. Anyway...

Spoiler: show/hide

Jon is the ice. Daenerys is the fire. The big thing that is at the end of A Dance with Dragons? I think that is how they end the season this year. It could be the end of episode 9 like they did with Ned but possibly even 10.

[carey]

OK, here's a question that doesn't involve any spoilers (unless someone wants to force them in). After this season, the show will largely be caught up with the books (some stories will lag a little, others will certainly be ahead, or rather, branched off). GRRM says to this day that it is a seven book series...I don't believe him, because I don't see it getting resolved in 3000 pages, but that's not the point. At his pace, he will finish sometime in 2078.

Realistically, we have two years left in the show after this season. He has also already told them how it ends (or is supposed to end, according to what I've read).

That potentially leaves years in which they could expand or build out entire new stories to tell. Would you want to see, let's say, a 10-year series that will still be over before ASOIAF, the novels, are done...likely well in advance of the conclusion of the books, that actually spoil the novels to some extent?

Personally, I would. I trust the writers and directors and I think GRRM would stay involved and the whole thing would remain a solid show. But, that's a long time for a show like this to be on air. I want it to end like Breaking Bad, at the top of its game without ever missing a beat...but I want the whole thing to stay for as long as possible. And he's only got so much story left to stay true-ish to the novels. Also, if he's going to take this long to write, then they might as well milk the show for all it's worth.

I want the show to go on as if GRRM doesn't even matter. They have what they need from him now just work towards the ultimate conclusion (however long that takes.) I personally don't think GRRM ever finishes the series. It would be a major bummer but (and this is just MY opinion) he wrote 3 absolutely fantastic genius books. I've never read a modern fantasy series so brilliantly done. Then he basically went fucking nuts and turned out mediocre garbage. The last 2 books aren't even close to the first 3 in quality. They are a meandering mess where very little events of importance happen. I think that's the real problem with what's going on with the show. There's so much to cut that they are already outpacing the series when they shouldn't be.

Consider book 1 is season 1. Book 2 is season 2. But they cut up book 3 into season 3 and 4. Then we have the even bigger book 4 and 5 yet we are already off script and including stuff that's not in the books in just the 5th season? It's also a product of the terrible choice GRRM made to leave out a bunch of characters so that when the 6th book is released we'll be reading stuff that happened simultaneously with the events of book 5. We've already been forced into an entire season without Bran and Hodor and Arya's storyline is way, way ahead of where it should be. If they keep her in the House of B&W we'll see very little of the show's best character this year.

Anyway, I don't think it matters much because of how slow GRRM is writing and that he's already 66, not in the best of health, and seems to like appearing on talk shows and at conventions more than finishing his monumental fantasy epic.

[Indy]

OK, here's a question that doesn't involve any spoilers (unless someone wants to force them in). After this season, the show will largely be caught up with the books (some stories will lag a little, others will certainly be ahead, or rather, branched off). GRRM says to this day that it is a seven book series...I don't believe him, because I don't see it getting resolved in 3000 pages, but that's not the point. At his pace, he will finish sometime in 2078.

Realistically, we have two years left in the show after this season. He has also already told them how it ends (or is supposed to end, according to what I've read).

That potentially leaves years in which they could expand or build out entire new stories to tell. Would you want to see, let's say, a 10-year series that will still be over before ASOIAF, the novels, are done...likely well in advance of the conclusion of the books, that actually spoil the novels to some extent?

Personally, I would. I trust the writers and directors and I think GRRM would stay involved and the whole thing would remain a solid show. But, that's a long time for a show like this to be on air. I want it to end like Breaking Bad, at the top of its game without ever missing a beat...but I want the whole thing to stay for as long as possible. And he's only got so much story left to stay true-ish to the novels. Also, if he's going to take this long to write, then they might as well milk the show for all it's worth.

I want the show to go on as if GRRM doesn't even matter. They have what they need from him now just work towards the ultimate conclusion (however long that takes.) I personally don't think GRRM ever finishes the series. It would be a major bummer but (and this is just MY opinion) he wrote 3 absolutely fantastic genius books. I've never read a modern fantasy series so brilliantly done. Then he basically went fucking nuts and turned out mediocre garbage. The last 2 books aren't even close to the first 3 in quality. They are a meandering mess where very little events of importance happen. I think that's the real problem with what's going on with the show. There's so much to cut that they are already outpacing the series when they shouldn't be.

Consider book 1 is season 1. Book 2 is season 2. But they cut up book 3 into season 3 and 4. Then we have the even bigger book 4 and 5 yet we are already off script and including stuff that's not in the books in just the 5th season? It's also a product of the terrible choice GRRM made to leave out a bunch of characters so that when the 6th book is released we'll be reading stuff that happened simultaneously with the events of book 5. We've already been forced into an entire season without Bran and Hodor and Arya's storyline is way, way ahead of where it should be. If they keep her in the House of B&W we'll see very little of the show's best character this year.

Anyway, I don't think it matters much because of how slow GRRM is writing and that he's already 66, not in the best of health, and seems to like appearing on talk shows and at conventions more than finishing his monumental fantasy epic.

This is coming from someone that hasn't read his books yet, but you seem to be putting a lot on him to please you. He's just a guy that decided to write a book, and it led to another, and another. He really doesn't owe it to anyone besides himself (and his publisher if they have already paid him) for more books.

I will get off my horse now.

[carey]

This is coming from someone that hasn't read his books yet, but you seem to be putting a lot on him to please you. He's just a guy that decided to write a book, and it led to another, and another. He really doesn't owe it to anyone besides himself (and his publisher if they have already paid him) for more books.

I will get off my horse now.

I really don't understand what you are trying to say. He's a guy that wrote some books. I'm a guy that bought them and read them. I also have an HBO subscription to watch his show. I also buy the Blu Rays. I certainly have the right to criticize his choices as much as the next guy, no?

Also, I honestly don't care if he finishes them. I'm enjoying the condensed nature of the show more than the books. They have become such bloated messes that I'd be fine with him chucking the whole thing. As long as I get the conclusion on the show, which I will it's HBO's cash cow.

[Dan H]

Martin has kind of developed and self-promoted this persona that he's a procrastinator. The last book was five years after the one before it, and we're going on four years now. My perception of it is that since the TV show took off he's kind of been more into enjoying the whole fame aspect of that than actually writing. I mean, as a comparison, Rothfuss will have completed his trilogy, which albeit not quite as epic, is much more densely written than Martin's work, in a bit over 8 years. And you know what? More power to Martin, he should be enjoying his success. It's just that he's kind of become a caricature. People don't say, "Hey, when's the next Boston album coming out?" as a snark anymore, it's "When's the next Game of Thrones book?"

[carey]

It's odd that he wrote the first 3 so fast but after his breakdown the outpouring of words became a trickle.

[Ghost]

The series is called a Song of Ice and Fire. I actually get really annoyed that no one calls it that and only refers to it by Game of Thrones. Anyway...

If I were only referring to the books, I'd spell out the clunky title, or the acronym, which is also clunky. As the stories branch apart, I'm choosing to be lazy and go with the simpler GOT to refer to the collective story. Sorry, you can be annoyed with me, I understand.

Spoiler: show/hide

Jon is the ice. Daenerys is the fire. The big thing that is at the end of A Dance with Dragons? I think that is how they end the season this year. It could be the end of episode 9 like they did with Ned but possibly even 10.

Spoiler: show/hide

Yeah, that's what I thought you meant. I think it will be the final scene of the season, which it should.

[Indy]

This is coming from someone that hasn't read his books yet, but you seem to be putting a lot on him to please you. He's just a guy that decided to write a book, and it led to another, and another. He really doesn't owe it to anyone besides himself (and his publisher if they have already paid him) for more books.

I will get off my horse now.

I really don't understand what you are trying to say. He's a guy that wrote some books. I'm a guy that bought them and read them. I also have an HBO subscription to watch his show. I also buy the Blu Rays. I certainly have the right to criticize his choices as much as the next guy, no?

Also, I honestly don't care if he finishes them. I'm enjoying the condensed nature of the show more than the books. They have become such bloated messes that I'd be fine with him chucking the whole thing. As long as I get the conclusion on the show, which I will it's HBO's cash cow.

You can complain as much as you want. What I am saying is that:

He is a guy that made some art. You bought the art. Great. But now you are complaining that he isn't making more art faster. My point is to enjoy what you already have, instead of complaining that there isn't more of it. I probably didn't say that very clearly.

[Indy]

It's odd that he wrote the first 3 so fast but after his breakdown the outpouring of words became a trickle.

The first three were probably books he had written over just as much time, but were likely one big story that broke up into parts. It is like a band and their first album or two. Those are songs they have lived with in some form or another long before you ever heard of them. Once they use up their stock material, the new albums either take forever, or aren't very good, or both.

[Dan H]

The series is called a Song of Ice and Fire. I actually get really annoyed that no one calls it that and only refers to it by Game of Thrones. Anyway...

If I were only referring to the books, I'd spell out the clunky title, or the acronym, which is also clunky. As the stories branch apart, I'm choosing to be lazy and go with the simpler GOT to refer to the collective story. Sorry, you can be annoyed with me, I understand.

Spoiler: show/hide

Jon is the ice. Daenerys is the fire. The big thing that is at the end of A Dance with Dragons? I think that is how they end the season this year. It could be the end of episode 9 like they did with Ned but possibly even 10.

Spoiler: show/hide

Yeah, that's what I thought you meant. I think it will be the final scene of the season, which it should.

I tried to read Dance with Dragons, I really did. But I couldn't get through it before I had to take it back to the library.

Are you guys talking about

Spoiler: show/hide

Jon being stabbed and possibly dying? Or something else.

[carey]

Yes.