Suns 2017 Free Agency

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.
User avatar
Aztec Sunsfan
Posts: 1880
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:56 pm

Re: Suns 2017 Free Agency

Post by Aztec Sunsfan »

BlaCkAdDa wrote:Lens nothing special right now and probably never will be but we should keep trying with him we have nothing to lose on doing so.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
Time, one spot on a 15 men capped roster (already crowded), Cap space, Court time, Rotation orders, Development coaches availability...

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 19339
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Suns 2017 Free Agency

Post by Indy »

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:The lesson with lots of these players, whether it's Len, B.Knight, Williams, or whomever, is that a player has a certain value. If you can sign a guy for his value or thereabouts, you've done well. If you sign a mediocre player to a huge contract, you're in big trouble. Len does have value and he's a young center with some legitimate skills. He isn't worth $15m / year, but that doesn't mean he is worthless.
I think this is the exact approach Ryan makes with every pick, trade, or signing. And it is this "value for production" approach that ignores how the puzzle fits together.

User avatar
Mori Chu
Posts: 23607
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Suns 2017 Free Agency

Post by Mori Chu »

Indy: Do you think Len fits poorly with our other pieces?

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 19339
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Suns 2017 Free Agency

Post by Indy »

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:Indy: Do you think Len fits poorly with our other pieces?
A) I think if we are trying for positionless basketball (which is getting more common and seems to be what the FO is saying), then he does not fit well.
B) My comment above was more about Ryan than Len. Wasn't calling you out, just pointing out that it is completely true, but can't be used in a vacuum, and Ryan seems to do that often.

Online
User avatar
ShelC
Posts: 12896
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:00 am

Re: Suns 2017 Free Agency

Post by ShelC »

Even so, the Ws still used Bogut, Ezeli, Pachulia and McGee in different ways for short amounts of time. Len could find a role that way.

User avatar
Aztec Sunsfan
Posts: 1880
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:56 pm

Re: Suns 2017 Free Agency

Post by Aztec Sunsfan »

ShelC wrote:Even so, the Ws still used Bogut, Ezeli, Pachulia and McGee in different ways for short amounts of time. Len could find a role that way.
And therefore they have been reducing the cap amount destined to it, because they have become situational players. Using Golden State as reference, only diminish the need for resigning him, because, how much a situational Len is worth?

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 19339
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Suns 2017 Free Agency

Post by Indy »

ShelC wrote:Even so, the Ws still used Bogut, Ezeli, Pachulia and McGee in different ways for short amounts of time. Len could find a role that way.
True, but they had 2 way players at every other position on the court. We have how many of those in our top 8? Two, maybe, with one of them being a rookie, and the other being an oft-injured guard.

User avatar
Furlanfufi
Posts: 1532
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:09 pm
Location: São Paulo, Brazil

Re: Suns 2017 Free Agency

Post by Furlanfufi »

I think Len would end up signing a reasonable contract.
Better players than him, like Splitter, are still unsigned.

User avatar
INFORMER
Posts: 8476
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:19 pm

Re: Suns 2017 Free Agency

Post by INFORMER »

carey wrote:Sometimes I feel like I'm watching an entirely different team than the rest of you. We didn't give Len a chance? We started him. We let him come off the bench. We payed him heavy minutes. We played him light minutes. We played him at PF. We played him at C. We ran the offense through him. We allowed the offense to come to him. We asked him to just defend and grab boards.

How exactly has he not gotten an opportunity to succeed here? We've been more than fair over 4 years. The idea that he will suddenly build value after signing a contract doesn't make sense to me.
Playing him at power forward was silly and didn't help at all. At his minutes have been cut down tremendously with the acquisition of Tyson Chandler. The Suns front office have made bad decision after bad decision when it comes to Alex Len, and it started with drafting him in the first place.
Free Agency
DeMar Derozan for the minimum!

PG: Jordan McLaughlin, Killian Hayes, Kris Dunn, Spencer Dinwiddie, Monte Morris
C: Mo Bamba, Andre Drummond, James Wiseman, Goga Bitadze, Jay Huff

User avatar
INFORMER
Posts: 8476
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:19 pm

Re: Suns 2017 Free Agency

Post by INFORMER »

carey wrote:It's weird that you guys see jerked around and I see opportunity to show what he has in a bunch of different roles. If we hadn't done that and tried to make him play one specific role and he failed you'd be complaining that we were forcing a square peg into a round hole.
I doubt that. Len is a 7 foot center. There shouldn't be a lot of mystery or experimentation as to what his role should be or can be. Start him at the 5, give him consistent minutes, feed him in the post, give him mid-range looks. If you don't like what you see, trade him. That should have been the plan.
Free Agency
DeMar Derozan for the minimum!

PG: Jordan McLaughlin, Killian Hayes, Kris Dunn, Spencer Dinwiddie, Monte Morris
C: Mo Bamba, Andre Drummond, James Wiseman, Goga Bitadze, Jay Huff

User avatar
O_Gardino
Posts: 6734
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 12:47 pm
Location: Shreveport, LA

Re: Suns 2017 Free Agency

Post by O_Gardino »

INFORMER wrote:
carey wrote:It's weird that you guys see jerked around and I see opportunity to show what he has in a bunch of different roles. If we hadn't done that and tried to make him play one specific role and he failed you'd be complaining that we were forcing a square peg into a round hole.
I doubt that. Len is a 7 foot center. There shouldn't be a lot of mystery or experimentation as to what his role should be or can be. Start him at the 5, give him consistent minutes, feed him in the post, give him mid-range looks. If you don't like what you see, trade him. That should have been the plan.
Thank you.
The league needs heroes, villains... and clowns. -- Aztec Sunsfan

User avatar
Mori Chu
Posts: 23607
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Suns 2017 Free Agency

Post by Mori Chu »

INF making a lot of sense.

User avatar
O_Gardino
Posts: 6734
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 12:47 pm
Location: Shreveport, LA

Re: Suns 2017 Free Agency

Post by O_Gardino »

Here's a quick article pointing out that Alex's QO expires on Oct 1. So he has 6 weeks to hope for a better offer from another team, along with a handful of other bigs from his draft class. At this point, it's hard to see one coming, so I assume we will See Alex back in a Suns Uni next year. For better or worse.

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2017 ... x-suns-nba

BTW, we bitched at each other a lot this season about how much Len would be worth on the open market, and I don't think anyone thought that number would be the veteran's minimum. Lot's of folks were scared that he would cost the near max $, and the more conservative estimates had him between 8 a 12 million. "That's just what big men make these day." Well, not this year.
The league needs heroes, villains... and clowns. -- Aztec Sunsfan

User avatar
Mori Chu
Posts: 23607
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Suns 2017 Free Agency

Post by Mori Chu »

O_Gardino wrote:Here's a quick article pointing out that Alex's QO expires on Oct 1. So he has 6 weeks to hope for a better offer from another team, along with a handful of other bigs from his draft class. At this point, it's hard to see one coming, so I assume we will See Alex back in a Suns Uni next year. For better or worse.

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2017 ... x-suns-nba

BTW, we bitched at each other a lot this season about how much Len would be worth on the open market, and I don't think anyone thought that number would be the veteran's minimum. Lot's of folks were scared that he would cost the near max $, and the more conservative estimates had him between 8 a 12 million. "That's just what big men make these day." Well, not this year.
I don't mean to split hairs, but the fact that Len hasn't signed a contract doesn't mean he literally has received zero offers above the veteran's minimum. It just means he hasn't yet received a deal he likes or is willing to sign. He may have deals on the table but is holding out for more $$$, or maybe he's just waiting to see if some team comes in with a better situation for him.

I do think the lack of a rush on Len is really interesting. It looks like McDo gambled correctly in not offering him a big contract. I bet Len is some combination of bummed out and pissed off that there aren't more teams courting him. I wonder what his play will be like if he does stay one more year on his QO? I suspect he won't exactly be thrilled to be here.

User avatar
Nodack
Posts: 9697
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Re: Suns 2017 Free Agency

Post by Nodack »

Len gets a C grade from me. I had a lot of hope for him and he showed glimmers of hope from time to time but, has been a disappointment overall. Has a great NBA big man body. Too bad his NBA skill level and IQ never matched it.
In four years, you don’t have to vote again. We’ll have it fixed so good, you’re not gonna have to vote.

User avatar
Split T
Posts: 27200
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: Suns 2017 Free Agency

Post by Split T »

O_Gardino wrote:Here's a quick article pointing out that Alex's QO expires on Oct 1. So he has 6 weeks to hope for a better offer from another team, along with a handful of other bigs from his draft class. At this point, it's hard to see one coming, so I assume we will See Alex back in a Suns Uni next year. For better or worse.

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2017 ... x-suns-nba

BTW, we bitched at each other a lot this season about how much Len would be worth on the open market, and I don't think anyone thought that number would be the veteran's minimum. Lot's of folks were scared that he would cost the near max $, and the more conservative estimates had him between 8 a 12 million. "That's just what big men make these day." Well, not this year.
A lot changed from the 2016 off season. It's crazy to think guys like Plumlee and Mozgov got 12-16 million a year. Had Len been a free agent last year, he'd have gotten 16 easy. Now teams realized they way overpaid big men last year. I think we may have seen the end of big men getting premium contracts just for their size. You don't win with big men in today's NBA. Len, Noel, and Plumlee are all unsigned still.

User avatar
JCSunsfan
Posts: 2136
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:22 am

Re: Suns 2017 Free Agency

Post by JCSunsfan »

Split T wrote:
O_Gardino wrote:Here's a quick article pointing out that Alex's QO expires on Oct 1. So he has 6 weeks to hope for a better offer from another team, along with a handful of other bigs from his draft class. At this point, it's hard to see one coming, so I assume we will See Alex back in a Suns Uni next year. For better or worse.

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2017 ... x-suns-nba

BTW, we bitched at each other a lot this season about how much Len would be worth on the open market, and I don't think anyone thought that number would be the veteran's minimum. Lot's of folks were scared that he would cost the near max $, and the more conservative estimates had him between 8 a 12 million. "That's just what big men make these day." Well, not this year.
A lot changed from the 2016 off season. It's crazy to think guys like Plumlee and Mozgov got 12-16 million a year. Had Len been a free agent last year, he'd have gotten 16 easy. Now teams realized they way overpaid big men last year. I think we may have seen the end of big men getting premium contracts just for their size. You don't win with big men in today's NBA. Len, Noel, and Plumlee are all unsigned still.
They have seen teams scrambling to undo what they did last summer, and paying big time to do it. Signing a marginal free agent to a big contract is one of the worst things you can do in the NBA right now.

User avatar
Split T
Posts: 27200
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: Suns 2017 Free Agency

Post by Split T »

Did we see any bad contracts this summer? The Griffin contract could be rough, but if he stays healthy it's probably fine. Assuming all players maintain their expected level of play, I can't really think of any terrible contacts. Tim Hardaway was an overpay, but he is a good player. What other players got over paid?

User avatar
Split T
Posts: 27200
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: Suns 2017 Free Agency

Post by Split T »

Split T wrote:Did we see any bad contracts this summer? The Griffin contract could be rough, but if he stays healthy it's probably fine. Assuming all players maintain their expected level of play, I can't really think of any terrible contacts. Tim Hardaway was an overpay, but he is a good player. What other players got over paid?
Kelly Olynyk at 4/50
Dion Waiters at 4/52
James Johnson at 4/60
Tony Snell at 4/42
Jrue Holiday at 5/125
Jeff Teague at 3/57
Tim Hardaway at 4/71

Those were the "worst" contracts given out, IMO. None are terrible though.

User avatar
Mori Chu
Posts: 23607
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Suns 2017 Free Agency

Post by Mori Chu »

Jrue Holiday at 5/125
That one is borderline insane. Would you sign Bledsoe for that amount?

Post Reply