Around the League: The Offseason

[JCSunsfan]

I believe the Suns are one of the very few teams that can afford to pass on adding Irving. He is great but comes with limitations in defense and passing. Do we really want to be the Blazers? Your turn-my turn at PG-SG doesn't seem like a great way to build a solid contender. If the cost is two 1stR picks and Bledsoe, I am leaning towards passing on the deal unless we served a smaller role or could just send Irving elsewhere and get a nice big man back (Indiana and Myles Turner?).

If you have a chance to get a superstar, and Kyrie is, you get him. If you have a chance to get a young superstar, you pay big time to get him. EVERY player has weaknesses. You get the superstar and then build a team around him. We cannot afford to be so in love with Booker that we do not see the value in getting Kyrie. The only reason I would not want Kyrie here is if he does not WANT to be here.

[wpmiller42]

I believe the Suns are one of the very few teams that can afford to pass on adding Irving. He is great but comes with limitations in defense and passing. Do we really want to be the Blazers? Your turn-my turn at PG-SG doesn't seem like a great way to build a solid contender. If the cost is two 1stR picks and Bledsoe, I am leaning towards passing on the deal unless we served a smaller role or could just send Irving elsewhere and get a nice big man back (Indiana and Myles Turner?).

If you have a chance to get a superstar, and Kyrie is, you get him. If you have a chance to get a young superstar, you pay big time to get him. EVERY player has weaknesses. You get the superstar and then build a team around him. We cannot afford to be so in love with Booker that we do not see the value in getting Kyrie. The only reason I would not want Kyrie here is if he does not WANT to be here.

Totally agree with this. I think a backcourt of Booker and Irving, combined with Jackson is a super nice foundation. And there's some bigs out there that might suddenly see Phoenix as an attractive destination with those guys. What if you're able to sell Anthony Davis? Or Paul George? I just think we'd have a really nice young group of potential with legitimate, proven talent.

[O_Gardino]

I think Booker can be just as good of a defender as Klay Thompson if he puts the work in. Klay was a pretty big defensive liability when he came in. I see Booker as a more developed player both skill and bball IQ than Klay was at age 20 so I think the potential is there.

At this point I am not looking at comps with Klay anymore. Booker is showing tremendous playmaking ability. Way more ability than Klay to be an overall 1A offensive weapon. I see a chance to develop a monster scorer and while I want to see defensive improvement from him as well, I am not sure I'd try to burden Booker with the amount of pressure to spend energy on D that comes from having a proven non-defender at his side.

Kyrie is a really special scorer. You can't count him out as just a one on one guy. I do think if you end up with a Kyrie / Booker backcourt, you've got to get a very good coach to keep the ball moving and good shooters to spread the floor.

I agree Irving is more than an iso guy, but adding him does pose a number of questions marks, besides his integration offensively (which indeed would be questionable given the current coaching staff).

How is he going to take having to share the spotlight with a kid? He supposedly is demanding a trade to get out of LeBron's shadow. Why would I want to mess with Booker's status?

How are we going to defend the perimeter when shooting threes is the most important skill? M'fvcking Jackson can't cover the whole perimeter.

While we are at it, let's also remember that Irving comes with his fair share of injury concerns. And obviously, you have to pay the price to acquire him, which is not going to be small by any means (I already hate seeing PHX '18 pick in rumors).

Is Irving a real leader? Does he have strong connections to other stars that would want to come to PHX?

Nah, the more I think about it, the less I think the effort would be worth it.

I don't know anything about his locker room character or anything like that, but I do think there are legit basketball concerns that would have to be worked out. The thing is, Kyrie is a big upgrade from Bled, but is it enough of an upgrade to make us a contender? I don't know that.

[Mori Chu]

I don't think Kyrie is requesting a trade to get out of Lebron's shadow. I think it's more that he thinks the team has already peaked and is going to decline, and that Lebron is going to leave next year, so he wants to get out while he still can.

[Superbone]

I think Booker can be just as good of a defender as Klay Thompson if he puts the work in. Klay was a pretty big defensive liability when he came in. I see Booker as a more developed player both skill and bball IQ than Klay was at age 20 so I think the potential is there.

At this point I am not looking at comps with Klay anymore. Booker is showing tremendous playmaking ability. Way more ability than Klay to be an overall 1A offensive weapon. I see a chance to develop a monster scorer and while I want to see defensive improvement from him as well, I am not sure I'd try to burden Booker with the amount of pressure to spend energy on D that comes from having a proven non-defender at his side.

Kyrie is a really special scorer. You can't count him out as just a one on one guy. I do think if you end up with a Kyrie / Booker backcourt, you've got to get a very good coach to keep the ball moving and good shooters to spread the floor.

I agree Irving is more than an iso guy, but adding him does pose a number of questions marks, besides his integration offensively (which indeed would be questionable given the current coaching staff).

How is he going to take having to share the spotlight with a kid? He supposedly is demanding a trade to get out of LeBron's shadow. Why would I want to mess with Booker's status?

How are we going to defend the perimeter when shooting threes is the most important skill? M'fvcking Jackson can't cover the whole perimeter.

While we are at it, let's also remember that Irving comes with his fair share of injury concerns. And obviously, you have to pay the price to acquire him, which is not going to be small by any means (I already hate seeing PHX '18 pick in rumors).

Is Irving a real leader? Does he have strong connections to other stars that would want to come to PHX?

Nah, the more I think about it, the less I think the effort would be worth it.

I don't think we have anything to worry about. We're not on his list of four teams he wants to play for.

[ShelC]

Just because we're not on the list doesn't mean the Cavs wouldn't trade him to a team where they get the best deal. The Cavs hold the cards here. The gamble would be us taking Kyrie and worrying about him leaving.

[INFORMER]

I don't think Kyrie Irving makes this franchise a contender, or even gets them closer to being one. With all this superteam stuff, people in the NBA and those who follow it have gotten lazy and oversimplified winning. Now people just say "go get a superstar." "Do whatever it takes to get a superstar!"

That's not how the Warriors won it all. That team is a calculated collection of the right players with complementary skills. When they added Durant, it wasn't just adding any superstar, it was adding a superstar that fit their team, fit the talent.

LeBron's superteams have worked because LeBron is one of the best talents ever to play the game, but he has mental deficiencies that need to be covered by superstar/All-Star talent.

Bringing in Kyrie Irving is essentially doing what another poster referenced: building Portland Trail Blazers 2.0. It's going to be very hard to construct a contender by pairing Devon Booker with a ball dominant, iso scoring point guard.

[INFORMER]

Another deal throw out there is:

Phx gets Frank and Love
NYK gets Kyrie and Chandler
Cleveland gets Melo and Bledsoe

This is almost exactly the deal I had in mind.

[ShelC]

The difference between the Irving on the Suns and what the Blazers have is that we have bigs. If we keep some combo of Chriss/Bender/Chandler, we have the frontcourt to make an impact.


Kyrie is also a very good shooter, not just a scorer. I see Bledsoe as a scoring point guard who can sometimes shoot it and Kyrie as a scoring PG who can really shoot it. Both he and Bledsoe can facilitate so it wouldn't be just Kyrie dribbling around with 4 guys watching.

[O_Gardino]

Booker + Kyrie > McCullum + Lillard

But still, you need the role players and coaches to keep the ball moving and get stops.

[JCSunsfan]

I don't think Kyrie is requesting a trade to get out of Lebron's shadow. I think it's more that he thinks the team has already peaked and is going to decline, and that Lebron is going to leave next year, so he wants to get out while he still can.

Griff left, LeBron won't commit, the team is built around LeBron's game, not Kyrie's, they do not look like they are going to be able to overcome the Warriors. LeBron's probably kicking himself that he didn't do this first. Now he has to play the hometown hero. Klutch sports has been running that franchise for several years now anyway. Is it just my imagination or is it that wherever LeBron goes there is major drama?

[In2ition]

I don't think Kyrie is requesting a trade to get out of Lebron's shadow. I think it's more that he thinks the team has already peaked and is going to decline, and that Lebron is going to leave next year, so he wants to get out while he still can.

I like the teeter totter analogy. You want to get off before your partner gets off, if you know he's about to leave. That can be a huge fall, and doesn't feel so good.
The team is built around Lebron and not Kyrie. If Lebron leaves(and I think he does next year) they are going to be in for another huge step back.

[carey]

Is it just my imagination or is it that wherever LeBron goes there is major drama?

It is not your imagination. LeBron is going to be vilified once again if he leaves after writing about "home." I suppose since he brought them a championship it might not be too bad. Still, if I were a Cavs fan I would be irate.

[ShelC]

Kinda cool that the tables are being flipped on LeBron now. Cleveland knows he's leaving so Gilbert let the GM walk instead of paying, Kyrie wants out. I guess if LeBron won't commit to a team, a team won't commit to LeBron.

[carey]

I don't think Kyrie Irving makes this franchise a contender, or even gets them closer to being one. With all this superteam stuff, people in the NBA and those who follow it have gotten lazy and oversimplified winning. Now people just say "go get a superstar." "Do whatever it takes to get a superstar!"

That's not how the Warriors won it all. That team is a calculated collection of the right players with complementary skills. When they added Durant, it wasn't just adding any superstar, it was adding a superstar that fit their team, fit the talent.

Is there a team Durant wouldn't fit? He has the game to fit anywhere because he's not a ball stopper and he plays decent defense.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

Kinda cool that the tables are being flipped on LeBron now. Cleveland knows he's leaving so Gilbert let the GM walk instead of paying, Kyrie wants out. I guess if LeBron won't commit to a team, a team won't commit to LeBron.

Yes, this is an interesting moment in this new era of superstars taking short contracts to gain leverage on the front offices. If Cleveland pushes for young talent and picks to trade Irving, they are looking at life after Lebron, either next year or after. If they take a Bledsoe-Chandler kind of package, then they are still catering to the kInG.

[carey]

Booker + Kyrie > McCullum + Lillard

But still, you need the role players and coaches to keep the ball moving and get stops.

https://twitter.com/sreekyshooter/status/888493583006810116 I agree with Sreekar.

[In2ition]

I'm not a huge fan of the kind of pg that Kyrie is, at least for this particular team. I think he's fantastic and an upgrade over Bledsoe, but not the type of pg that would make everyone else better. That being said, I think that Booker can and will improve his defense, especially if he feels like that is limiting his potential and rise up the ranks of players in the league. I saw in a late season game against GS last year, in which some people were speculating that Klay was going to go for 50+ in the game, because he was being guarded by Booker, that Booker buckled down and really made everything that Klay did very difficult. At the same time, I thought he was getting the better of Klay on the offensive end. It was nice to see that he could do it when his determination was up. I would like to see an effort like that every night against the best SGs in the league.

[Superbone]

I don't think Kyrie Irving makes this franchise a contender, or even gets them closer to being one. With all this superteam stuff, people in the NBA and those who follow it have gotten lazy and oversimplified winning. Now people just say "go get a superstar." "Do whatever it takes to get a superstar!"

That's not how the Warriors won it all. That team is a calculated collection of the right players with complementary skills. When they added Durant, it wasn't just adding any superstar, it was adding a superstar that fit their team, fit the talent.

Is there a team Durant wouldn't fit? He has the game to fit anywhere because he's not a ball stopper and he plays decent defense.

Yeah, he had me until Durant.

[Superbone]

Booker + Kyrie > McCullum + Lillard

But still, you need the role players and coaches to keep the ball moving and get stops.

https://twitter.com/sreekyshooter/status/888493583006810116 I agree with Sreekar.

It's funny if nothing else.