Suns 2017 Free Agency

[Aztec Sunsfan]

Lens nothing special right now and probably never will be but we should keep trying with him we have nothing to lose on doing so.

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Time, one spot on a 15 men capped roster (already crowded), Cap space, Court time, Rotation orders, Development coaches availability...

[Indy]

The lesson with lots of these players, whether it's Len, B.Knight, Williams, or whomever, is that a player has a certain value. If you can sign a guy for his value or thereabouts, you've done well. If you sign a mediocre player to a huge contract, you're in big trouble. Len does have value and he's a young center with some legitimate skills. He isn't worth $15m / year, but that doesn't mean he is worthless.

I think this is the exact approach Ryan makes with every pick, trade, or signing. And it is this "value for production" approach that ignores how the puzzle fits together.

[Mori Chu]

Indy: Do you think Len fits poorly with our other pieces?

[Indy]

Indy: Do you think Len fits poorly with our other pieces?

A) I think if we are trying for positionless basketball (which is getting more common and seems to be what the FO is saying), then he does not fit well.
B) My comment above was more about Ryan than Len. Wasn't calling you out, just pointing out that it is completely true, but can't be used in a vacuum, and Ryan seems to do that often.

[ShelC]

Even so, the Ws still used Bogut, Ezeli, Pachulia and McGee in different ways for short amounts of time. Len could find a role that way.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

Even so, the Ws still used Bogut, Ezeli, Pachulia and McGee in different ways for short amounts of time. Len could find a role that way.

And therefore they have been reducing the cap amount destined to it, because they have become situational players. Using Golden State as reference, only diminish the need for resigning him, because, how much a situational Len is worth?

[Indy]

Even so, the Ws still used Bogut, Ezeli, Pachulia and McGee in different ways for short amounts of time. Len could find a role that way.

True, but they had 2 way players at every other position on the court. We have how many of those in our top 8? Two, maybe, with one of them being a rookie, and the other being an oft-injured guard.

[Furlanfufi]

I think Len would end up signing a reasonable contract.
Better players than him, like Splitter, are still unsigned.

[INFORMER]

Sometimes I feel like I'm watching an entirely different team than the rest of you. We didn't give Len a chance? We started him. We let him come off the bench. We payed him heavy minutes. We played him light minutes. We played him at PF. We played him at C. We ran the offense through him. We allowed the offense to come to him. We asked him to just defend and grab boards.

How exactly has he not gotten an opportunity to succeed here? We've been more than fair over 4 years. The idea that he will suddenly build value after signing a contract doesn't make sense to me.

Playing him at power forward was silly and didn't help at all. At his minutes have been cut down tremendously with the acquisition of Tyson Chandler. The Suns front office have made bad decision after bad decision when it comes to Alex Len, and it started with drafting him in the first place.

[INFORMER]

It's weird that you guys see jerked around and I see opportunity to show what he has in a bunch of different roles. If we hadn't done that and tried to make him play one specific role and he failed you'd be complaining that we were forcing a square peg into a round hole.

I doubt that. Len is a 7 foot center. There shouldn't be a lot of mystery or experimentation as to what his role should be or can be. Start him at the 5, give him consistent minutes, feed him in the post, give him mid-range looks. If you don't like what you see, trade him. That should have been the plan.

[O_Gardino]

It's weird that you guys see jerked around and I see opportunity to show what he has in a bunch of different roles. If we hadn't done that and tried to make him play one specific role and he failed you'd be complaining that we were forcing a square peg into a round hole.

I doubt that. Len is a 7 foot center. There shouldn't be a lot of mystery or experimentation as to what his role should be or can be. Start him at the 5, give him consistent minutes, feed him in the post, give him mid-range looks. If you don't like what you see, trade him. That should have been the plan.

Thank you.

[Mori Chu]

INF making a lot of sense.

[O_Gardino]

Here's a quick article pointing out that Alex's QO expires on Oct 1. So he has 6 weeks to hope for a better offer from another team, along with a handful of other bigs from his draft class. At this point, it's hard to see one coming, so I assume we will See Alex back in a Suns Uni next year. For better or worse.

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2017 ... x-suns-nba

BTW, we bitched at each other a lot this season about how much Len would be worth on the open market, and I don't think anyone thought that number would be the veteran's minimum. Lot's of folks were scared that he would cost the near max $, and the more conservative estimates had him between 8 a 12 million. "That's just what big men make these day." Well, not this year.

[Mori Chu]

Here's a quick article pointing out that Alex's QO expires on Oct 1. So he has 6 weeks to hope for a better offer from another team, along with a handful of other bigs from his draft class. At this point, it's hard to see one coming, so I assume we will See Alex back in a Suns Uni next year. For better or worse.

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2017 ... x-suns-nba

BTW, we bitched at each other a lot this season about how much Len would be worth on the open market, and I don't think anyone thought that number would be the veteran's minimum. Lot's of folks were scared that he would cost the near max $, and the more conservative estimates had him between 8 a 12 million. "That's just what big men make these day." Well, not this year.

I don't mean to split hairs, but the fact that Len hasn't signed a contract doesn't mean he literally has received zero offers above the veteran's minimum. It just means he hasn't yet received a deal he likes or is willing to sign. He may have deals on the table but is holding out for more $$$, or maybe he's just waiting to see if some team comes in with a better situation for him.

I do think the lack of a rush on Len is really interesting. It looks like McDo gambled correctly in not offering him a big contract. I bet Len is some combination of bummed out and pissed off that there aren't more teams courting him. I wonder what his play will be like if he does stay one more year on his QO? I suspect he won't exactly be thrilled to be here.

[Nodack]

Len gets a C grade from me. I had a lot of hope for him and he showed glimmers of hope from time to time but, has been a disappointment overall. Has a great NBA big man body. Too bad his NBA skill level and IQ never matched it.

[Split T]

Here's a quick article pointing out that Alex's QO expires on Oct 1. So he has 6 weeks to hope for a better offer from another team, along with a handful of other bigs from his draft class. At this point, it's hard to see one coming, so I assume we will See Alex back in a Suns Uni next year. For better or worse.

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2017 ... x-suns-nba

BTW, we bitched at each other a lot this season about how much Len would be worth on the open market, and I don't think anyone thought that number would be the veteran's minimum. Lot's of folks were scared that he would cost the near max $, and the more conservative estimates had him between 8 a 12 million. "That's just what big men make these day." Well, not this year.

A lot changed from the 2016 off season. It's crazy to think guys like Plumlee and Mozgov got 12-16 million a year. Had Len been a free agent last year, he'd have gotten 16 easy. Now teams realized they way overpaid big men last year. I think we may have seen the end of big men getting premium contracts just for their size. You don't win with big men in today's NBA. Len, Noel, and Plumlee are all unsigned still.

[JCSunsfan]

Here's a quick article pointing out that Alex's QO expires on Oct 1. So he has 6 weeks to hope for a better offer from another team, along with a handful of other bigs from his draft class. At this point, it's hard to see one coming, so I assume we will See Alex back in a Suns Uni next year. For better or worse.

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2017 ... x-suns-nba

BTW, we bitched at each other a lot this season about how much Len would be worth on the open market, and I don't think anyone thought that number would be the veteran's minimum. Lot's of folks were scared that he would cost the near max $, and the more conservative estimates had him between 8 a 12 million. "That's just what big men make these day." Well, not this year.

A lot changed from the 2016 off season. It's crazy to think guys like Plumlee and Mozgov got 12-16 million a year. Had Len been a free agent last year, he'd have gotten 16 easy. Now teams realized they way overpaid big men last year. I think we may have seen the end of big men getting premium contracts just for their size. You don't win with big men in today's NBA. Len, Noel, and Plumlee are all unsigned still.

They have seen teams scrambling to undo what they did last summer, and paying big time to do it. Signing a marginal free agent to a big contract is one of the worst things you can do in the NBA right now.

[Split T]

Did we see any bad contracts this summer? The Griffin contract could be rough, but if he stays healthy it's probably fine. Assuming all players maintain their expected level of play, I can't really think of any terrible contacts. Tim Hardaway was an overpay, but he is a good player. What other players got over paid?

[Split T]

Did we see any bad contracts this summer? The Griffin contract could be rough, but if he stays healthy it's probably fine. Assuming all players maintain their expected level of play, I can't really think of any terrible contacts. Tim Hardaway was an overpay, but he is a good player. What other players got over paid?

Kelly Olynyk at 4/50
Dion Waiters at 4/52
James Johnson at 4/60
Tony Snell at 4/42
Jrue Holiday at 5/125
Jeff Teague at 3/57
Tim Hardaway at 4/71

Those were the "worst" contracts given out, IMO. None are terrible though.

[Mori Chu]

Jrue Holiday at 5/125

That one is borderline insane. Would you sign Bledsoe for that amount?