Phx-Suns.Net

JustWinBaby wrote:

Superbone wrote:

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:

JustWinBaby wrote:Great game. I liked the rotation especially watching Alex Len suck for 35 minutes. This is audition for the off season as I see it and I think it is a smart move by management.

4 points and 7 rebounds against the great Robin Lopez. He just does not have it and does anyone really want us to give this guy a big contract in the off season. He remains a big white stiff with little or no aggression or passion. I really do not know what he does well. Some will sau he is a good rim protector. If you do remember to post the poster he is on with Dwayne Wade. He came back in just in time to preserve the loss.

I really want to see more of Jones Jr. While he is young he appears to havve some skills and was a willing passer. We need more of that on this team. I do not think he even took a shot other than his dunk and put back. Most of the time you see youngsters just jacking up shots to get some attention.

Not a great game for Len. But I don't think it is totally fair to judge him on one game where his role and minutes were significantly changed. If he is going to get a real chance to prove himself the rest of the season, we need to give him a little more time. I think he will improve a lot.

It's also not appropriate to bring race into it.

You are correct. He is just a stiff, with nothing special in his game. He plays with little passion and has shown little or no improvement in his game since he was drafted. Ryan bragged today about what a good position we are salary cap wise. If we give this guy a huge contract it will be mistake.

I wonder why we did not hear his name in trade rumors?

Thank you. I think he plays with passion but that doesn't necessarily translate to skill. I'd like to see what he does with steady minutes before giving up on him. He has shown flashes. But yeah, for big money, with what we know now, that would be a tough sell.

Well. McD true to his word.

Knight and Chandler DNP. I am fine with a Knight DNP. Maybe he can get his head together watching.

Superbone wrote:

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:It would be such a Phoenix Suns moment for us to get the #3 pick in a draft where there's a consensus of 2 stud players at the top.

Nah, there will be three consensus picks and we will be pushed to 4th by somebody moving up.

In my opinion, there is 3 guys worthy of going 1st this year. Drop off to 4-10 isn't very steep though. Very gradual. Decent chance that one of those top 3 guys falls to 4,5, or even 6. I'd feel much better about getting a top 3 pick, but picking 4th or 5th wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

Len is going back to his bad habit of falling away when he shoots his mid-range jumper and free-throws. EJ noticed this last year, and Len corrected it late last season, but I noticed he was doing it again last night. He has a decent shooting form, otherwise.

Ulis was electric when he was in there. Pace picked up noticeably. Ulis needs about 15 minutes a game.

Williams reminds me a bit of DeJuan Blair, with better knees. He’s very active in the paint and makes his presence known…

LazarusLong wrote:Williams reminds me a bit of DeJuan Blair, with better knees. He’s very active in the paint and makes his presence known…

That's a good comparison. I like watching Williams play. I don't dislike Chandler, but it it so much more fun watching the younglings out on the floor. Ulis in particular just lights my fire. Love his court vision and passing.

JustWinBaby wrote:Great game. I liked the rotation especially watching Alex Len suck for 35 minutes. This is audition for the off season as I see it and I think it is a smart move by management.

A smart move would have been trading him a long time ago. Or not signing Tyson Chandler.

INFORMER wrote:

JustWinBaby wrote:Great game. I liked the rotation especially watching Alex Len suck for 35 minutes. This is audition for the off season as I see it and I think it is a smart move by management.

A smart move would have been trading him a long time ago. Or not signing Tyson Chandler.

The real smart move, would have been not to draft him in the first place. Of course hindsight is always 20 / 20

If he get what folks are suggesting that his market value could be, $15 - 20 Mil per year, we will have over $30 Mil per year invested in the 29th and 42nd ranked centers at their position in the league. This is according to their PER's. That just does not seem to make any sense at all. Unfortunately I question whether or not or management is smart enough to not pay this guy. My hope is that they are smart enough to pass on him after they see the results in these final 25 games. If he averages anything less than 15 and 10 when given 30 to 35 minutes per night, adios.

Is there really a team that would pay Len more than 15 million per year? I guess the Nets would sign almost anyone, but they have a lot of candidates to sign ahead of Len on all positions. There are a lot of solid centers in the league.

JustWinBaby wrote:

INFORMER wrote:

JustWinBaby wrote:Great game. I liked the rotation especially watching Alex Len suck for 35 minutes. This is audition for the off season as I see it and I think it is a smart move by management.

A smart move would have been trading him a long time ago. Or not signing Tyson Chandler.

The real smart move, would have been not to draft him in the first place. Of course hindsight is always 20 / 20

If he get what folks are suggesting that his market value could be, $15 - 20 Mil per year, we will have over $30 Mil per year invested in the 29th and 42nd ranked centers at their position in the league. This is according to their PER's. That just does not seem to make any sense at all. Unfortunately I question whether or not or management is smart enough to not pay this guy. My hope is that they are smart enough to pass on him after they see the results in these final 25 games. If he averages anything less than 15 and 10 when given 30 to 35 minutes per night, adios.

This is getting out of hand. PER is an offense stat, it doesn't really reflect defensive impact. It's fine to have a defender who doesn't score a lot. Draymond Geen averages 10 and 8 this year. ADIOS! There are only 6 player in the NBA averaging 15 and 10. ADIOS EVERYONE ELSE!

Len is not a star. It's ok to have players on your team who are not stars. Lots of teams do it.

O_Gardino wrote:

JustWinBaby wrote:

INFORMER wrote:

JustWinBaby wrote:Great game. I liked the rotation especially watching Alex Len suck for 35 minutes. This is audition for the off season as I see it and I think it is a smart move by management.

A smart move would have been trading him a long time ago. Or not signing Tyson Chandler.

The real smart move, would have been not to draft him in the first place. Of course hindsight is always 20 / 20

If he get what folks are suggesting that his market value could be, $15 - 20 Mil per year, we will have over $30 Mil per year invested in the 29th and 42nd ranked centers at their position in the league. This is according to their PER's. That just does not seem to make any sense at all. Unfortunately I question whether or not or management is smart enough to not pay this guy. My hope is that they are smart enough to pass on him after they see the results in these final 25 games. If he averages anything less than 15 and 10 when given 30 to 35 minutes per night, adios.

This is getting out of hand. PER is an offense stat, it doesn't really reflect defensive impact. It's fine to have a defender who doesn't score a lot. Draymond Geen averages 10 and 8 this year. ADIOS! There are only 6 player in the NBA averaging 15 and 10. ADIOS EVERYONE ELSE!

Len is not a star. It's ok to have players on your team who are not stars. Lots of teams do it.

Mentioning Alex Len in the same sentence with Draymond Green is almost criminal.

It is really amazing how much support Len gets in this town. He has accomplished squat. What are your expectations? 5 points, 5 rebounds and 5 fouls. How much do you think we should pay this guy?

If there are stats that show that we are a much better defensive team with him on the court, I am all ears. I am tired of hearing that it takes longer for big guys to become factors. Some probably due but my bet is that far more that struggle in their first 4 years struggle their entire career. If we sign him to an extension I expect we will see the same player for 8 and maybe 9 years, still waiting for him to get it.

JWB: I agree with you that Len's current numbers are not very impressive. But we did the same thing to Len that we did to our PGs a few years ago: We brought in somebody else who plays the same position and crowded him in the rotation. Chandler instantly took his starting spot and the lion's share of the center minutes. I don't think we have put Len in a position to succeed this year. A better plan would have been to start him and give him 30+ minutes a night, letting a cheaper veteran center play the backup or having Big Sauce do that.

Because we pushed Len out of the starting lineup and dropped his minutes, we don't really know what we have. He might be capable of being a really useful and productive starting center. Or he might be mediocre and not worth committing big money to. We don't really know. Certainly based on what he's shown to date, he doesn't look like a guy to break the bank on. But we haven't really given him a proper chance this year to see what he would have been capable of.

If they start him the rest of the year and he plays well, I still think we should try our best to re-sign him. The numbers will probably give us some sticker shock ($15m/yr?), but with the new CBA, that isn't a scandalous price if he is a good starting center.

JustWinBaby wrote:

O_Gardino wrote:

JustWinBaby wrote:

INFORMER wrote:

JustWinBaby wrote:Great game. I liked the rotation especially watching Alex Len suck for 35 minutes. This is audition for the off season as I see it and I think it is a smart move by management.

A smart move would have been trading him a long time ago. Or not signing Tyson Chandler.

The real smart move, would have been not to draft him in the first place. Of course hindsight is always 20 / 20

If he get what folks are suggesting that his market value could be, $15 - 20 Mil per year, we will have over $30 Mil per year invested in the 29th and 42nd ranked centers at their position in the league. This is according to their PER's. That just does not seem to make any sense at all. Unfortunately I question whether or not or management is smart enough to not pay this guy. My hope is that they are smart enough to pass on him after they see the results in these final 25 games. If he averages anything less than 15 and 10 when given 30 to 35 minutes per night, adios.

This is getting out of hand. PER is an offense stat, it doesn't really reflect defensive impact. It's fine to have a defender who doesn't score a lot. Draymond Geen averages 10 and 8 this year. ADIOS! There are only 6 player in the NBA averaging 15 and 10. ADIOS EVERYONE ELSE!

Len is not a star. It's ok to have players on your team who are not stars. Lots of teams do it.

Mentioning Alex Len in the same sentence with Draymond Green is almost criminal.

It is really amazing how much support Len gets in this town. He has accomplished squat. What are your expectations? 5 points, 5 rebounds and 5 fouls. How much do you think we should pay this guy?

If there are stats that show that we are a much better defensive team with him on the court, I am all ears. I am tired of hearing that it takes longer for big guys to become factors. Some probably due but my bet is that far more that struggle in their first 4 years struggle their entire career. If we sign him to an extension I expect we will see the same player for 8 and maybe 9 years, still waiting for him to get it.

Personally, I'd rather pay the guy - I don't think he's going to command anything we can't match - than watch him do a Lopez all over again. He's very agile for a guy his size and hasn't had the court reps pretty much every other NBA player has had because of how late he started playing the game, and he's been injured on top of that.

He's the one guy you have to accept will take a long time to develop in other words and better it's with us, IMO.

Marty wrote: If they start him the rest of the year and he plays well, I still think we should try our best to re-sign him. The numbers will probably give us some sticker shock ($15m/yr?), but with the new CBA, that isn't a scandalous price if he is a good starting center.

Is he though? What would you do if Alan Williams keeps out playing him in a backup role for the rest of the year? Len is still making the same mistakes as year 1. He constantly puts the ball low where it can be slapped away (or taking an unnecessary dribble) so he's turning the ball over a ton. He is way too foul prone. I'm not sure he could even average 30+ minutes a game without fouling out. He's an average finisher. His jump shot looks good but doesn't actually go in that much. (See: http://vorped.com/1-nba/2016-2017/player/1586/alex-len/) He seems like a good guy. You never hear him complain. He brings his lunch pail and works hard. I just don't know that I would be able to pay him that much while Chandler and Knight are still here making a combined $26.6M next year.

carey wrote:

Marty wrote: If they start him the rest of the year and he plays well, I still think we should try our best to re-sign him. The numbers will probably give us some sticker shock ($15m/yr?), but with the new CBA, that isn't a scandalous price if he is a good starting center.

Is he though? What would you do if Alan Williams keeps out playing him in a backup role for the rest of the year? Len is still making the same mistakes as year 1. He constantly puts the ball low where it can be slapped away (or taking an unnecessary dribble) so he's turning the ball over a ton. He is way too foul prone. I'm not sure he could even average 30+ minutes a game without fouling out. He's an average finisher. His jump shot looks good but doesn't actually go in that much. (See: http://vorped.com/1-nba/2016-2017/player/1586/alex-len/) He seems like a good guy. You never hear him complain. He brings his lunch pail and works hard. I just don't know that I would be able to pay him that much while Chandler and Knight are still here making a combined $26.6M next year.

That's where he needs the reps - more time, more confidence...He's got a good stroke, shoots >72% from the FT line so there's no reason to think it won't drop at some point.

carey wrote:Is he though? What would you do if Alan Williams keeps out playing him in a backup role for the rest of the year?

This is where I am at the moment. Big Sauce delivers.

I just don't know that I would be able to pay him that much while Chandler and Knight are still here making a combined $26.6M next year.

This shouldn't be a problem. You can basically give Chandler away if you want/need to, and I don't expect Knight to suck this bad forever. At some point, somebody will take a flyer on a young scorer on a legacy contract.

The real problem is Len not being worth his next contract even in a vacuum.

Ring_Wanted wrote:

carey wrote:Is he though? What would you do if Alan Williams keeps out playing him in a backup role for the rest of the year?

This is where I am at the moment. Big Sauce delivers.

I just don't know that I would be able to pay him that much while Chandler and Knight are still here making a combined $26.6M next year.

This shouldn't be a problem. You can basically give Chandler away if you want/need to, and I don't expect Knight to suck this bad forever. At some point, somebody will take a flyer on a young scorer on a legacy contract.

The real problem is Len not being worth his next contract even in a vacuum.

If we don't think he's worth much why would someone else break the bank for him?

And I wonder who else we'd spend the money on anyway... We've got the 4th lowest payroll for next season nearly $40m under the cap pre possible Len extension, so unless there's a trade for a star - a possibility if we draft a guard and trade Bledsoe - then it doesn't seem to be too big of a cost.

Hermen wrote:Is there really a team that would pay Len more than 15 million per year? I guess the Nets would sign almost anyone, but they have a lot of candidates to sign ahead of Len on all positions. There are a lot of solid centers in the league.

Mozgov and Mahinmi got 16 million per least off-season, so yes, I think someone will give him 15 million.

Split T wrote:
Mozgov and Mahinmi got 16 million per least off-season, so yes, I think someone will give him 15 million.

If the trade deadline is any indication I think GMs are going to be a little more cautious with the spending this Summer. Just a hunch but all it takes is that first GM to set the market ridiculously.

Split T wrote:

Hermen wrote:Is there really a team that would pay Len more than 15 million per year? I guess the Nets would sign almost anyone, but they have a lot of candidates to sign ahead of Len on all positions. There are a lot of solid centers in the league.

Mozgov and Mahinmi got 16 million per least off-season, so yes, I think someone will give him 15 million.

The cap is going down next season from $108m to $102m so there should be some downward pressure on salaries by default.

3rdside wrote:

Ring_Wanted wrote:

carey wrote:Is he though? What would you do if Alan Williams keeps out playing him in a backup role for the rest of the year?

This is where I am at the moment. Big Sauce delivers.

I just don't know that I would be able to pay him that much while Chandler and Knight are still here making a combined $26.6M next year.

This shouldn't be a problem. You can basically give Chandler away if you want/need to, and I don't expect Knight to suck this bad forever. At some point, somebody will take a flyer on a young scorer on a legacy contract.

The real problem is Len not being worth his next contract even in a vacuum.

If we don't think he's worth much why would someone else break the bank for him?

And I wonder who else we'd spend the money on anyway... We've got the 4th lowest payroll for next season nearly $40m under the cap pre possible Len extension, so unless there's a trade for a star - a possibility if we draft a guard and trade Bledsoe - then it doesn't seem to be too big of a cost.

That last paragraph is such flawed logic. That got us Warrick Turkoglu and Childress. Just because a superstar isn't out there yet doesn't mean you blow your load on a below average player for multiple years and then immediately lose any flexibility or hope of building a successful team.