Phx-Suns.Net

2 quick points:
- It's a little strange for some to label Kyrie as the "wrong kind of superstar" - acknowledging that he is a superstar, but acting as if we have our pick of the litter and acting as if the "right kind of superstar" is suddenly going to become available. I get that the fit is a little tricky, but if he really is a star and the cost is reasonable*, who are we to be picky? He's also only 25 and we'd have lots of assets left to pull the trigger should the "right superstar" (Anthony Davis?) become available. That second star would also be a lot more amenable to joining a team with a Booker+Kyrie+JJ foundation.
- Echoing a point that Zach Lowe made on his podcast for those concerned that he only has two years left on his deal: Because of the shorter deals in the new CBA, this caliber of player will almost never become available with more years left than that.

*For me:
Bledsoe + JJ+ Miami 18 Pick = too high
Bledsoe + Bender + Miami 18 Pick = I think long and hard about it and would be torn
Bledsoe + Warren + pick = don't love but I pull the trigger
Bledsoe + Chriss + Pick / anything less than that = accept immediately

I don't think he's a superstar. Borderline superstar, maybe.

And I don't understand Cleveland asking so much. Bledsoe makes a lot of sense for their roster.
They improve on defense, and most of Bledsoes weaknessess could be hidden by playing beside Lebron.
He won't need the ball in his hands so much, with him and Rose they can play more team ball on offense with Love...

The only and big con: I would never bet on the health of Bledsoe + Rose.

JCSunsfan wrote:

O_Gardino wrote:

JCSunsfan wrote:BTW LeBron. This is where the Chris Pauls of the world get you.

I have no idea what you mean by this.

Of course you don't. I meant Rich Paul's.

Oh, ok. Now it makes perfect sense.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:The great thing about this possible deal is that the intangibles are skewed in our favor in certain ways.

- Their star is at a lowish point of his value, coming off having lost in the Finals and having asked for a trade
- Our guy (Bledsoe) is at a high point of his value, coming off a healthy season where his stats were relatively strong
- Our guy, who has a high injury risk, has had a rare fully healthy season, allaying any potential injury concerns about trading for him
- Our guy happens to be personal friends with Lebron and have the same agent
- Our guy has stats that are not really as good as Kyrie's, but if you reduce the focus enough, you can kind of talk yourself into him as a poor man's replacement for Kyrie at PG.

He's a superman's replacement of Kyrie on defense.

Shabazz wrote:*For me:
Bledsoe + JJ+ Miami 18 Pick = too high
Bledsoe + Bender + Miami 18 Pick = I think long and hard about it and would be torn
Bledsoe + Warren + pick = don't love but I pull the trigger
Bledsoe + Chriss + Pick / anything less than that = accept immediately

Probably the same here, but before all that, we'd need some kind of assurance that the player is staying more than the two years he has remaining on his contract.

Anyway, as stated I don't love Irving but the talent is there and like everything, if it comes at the right price, the issues (fit, defense, etc) weight a lot less.

Anyway, Bledsoe-Chriss-picks would be my goal. Picks, as in Miami's, preferably. If our own in 2018 was in play, it better be at least top 10 protected. For what it's worth, I don't think our roster, once a trade for Irving was made, is enough to scape the pits of the western conference, so it would be a two year project at the very least.

Oh, and say no to any deal involving MF Jackson.

I'm officially off the Kyrie fence. The more I think about fit, the more I think he's just not the right guy for us. Obvs, I would do it for stupidly cheap.

Is he a great scorer? Yes. But he isn't great at anything else. In fact, he isn't even above average at anything else.

And how does a shoot first pg fit with our ball movement guys? I don't think he does. And I don't think we have the coaching chops to make it work.

O_Gardino wrote:I'm officially off the Kyrie fence. The more I think about fit, the more I think he's just not the right guy for us. Obvs, I would do it for stupidly cheap.

Is he a great scorer? Yes. But he isn't great at anything else. In fact, he isn't even above average at anything else.

And how does a shoot first pg fit with our ball movement guys? I don't think he does. And I don't think we have the coaching chops to make it work.

Yeah, we thought Bledsoe needs the ball? Kyrie is worse.

Superbone wrote:

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:The great thing about this possible deal is that the intangibles are skewed in our favor in certain ways.

- Their star is at a lowish point of his value, coming off having lost in the Finals and having asked for a trade
- Our guy (Bledsoe) is at a high point of his value, coming off a healthy season where his stats were relatively strong
- Our guy, who has a high injury risk, has had a rare fully healthy season, allaying any potential injury concerns about trading for him
- Our guy happens to be personal friends with Lebron and have the same agent
- Our guy has stats that are not really as good as Kyrie's, but if you reduce the focus enough, you can kind of talk yourself into him as a poor man's replacement for Kyrie at PG.

He's a superman's replacement of Kyrie on defense.

I get the feeling Cleveland wants a bounty for him.

iLLmatic wrote:

Superbone wrote:

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:The great thing about this possible deal is that the intangibles are skewed in our favor in certain ways.

- Their star is at a lowish point of his value, coming off having lost in the Finals and having asked for a trade
- Our guy (Bledsoe) is at a high point of his value, coming off a healthy season where his stats were relatively strong
- Our guy, who has a high injury risk, has had a rare fully healthy season, allaying any potential injury concerns about trading for him
- Our guy happens to be personal friends with Lebron and have the same agent
- Our guy has stats that are not really as good as Kyrie's, but if you reduce the focus enough, you can kind of talk yourself into him as a poor man's replacement for Kyrie at PG.

He's a superman's replacement of Kyrie on defense.

I get the feeling Cleveland wants a bounty for him.

If they get it from someone else, well, good for them. But I haven't been impressed with many of their off-season moves (ever), so it will be interesting to see what happens here.

Cleveland has no leverage.

Superbone wrote:Cleveland has no leverage.

Well, they have the leverage of Kyrie being under contract at least 2 more seasons.

In2ition wrote:

Superbone wrote:Cleveland has no leverage.

Well, they have the leverage of Kyrie being under contract at least 2 more seasons.

Sure, let them keep their unhappy camper. I'm in 'Bazz's camp. Don't do the deal unless it's one of the lower threshold deals. I'm certainly not putting Jackson in there.

O_Gardino wrote:I'm officially off the Kyrie fence. The more I think about fit, the more I think he's just not the right guy for us. Obvs, I would do it for stupidly cheap.

Is he a great scorer? Yes. But he isn't great at anything else. In fact, he isn't even above average at anything else.

And how does a shoot first pg fit with our ball movement guys? I don't think he does. And I don't think we have the coaching chops to make it work.

Seriously...i'll take Bledsoe and his contract, the extra 0.9 assists / 36 and no shade thrown on booker, thank you very much.

Cowherds's description - kyrie's got 1st pick syndrome - is spot on.


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Superbone wrote:Cleveland has no leverage.

They have a ton of leverage. Kyrie has no ability to force a trade here. Cleveland can just keep him or bench him or whatever they want. They also have one of the best teams in the NBA, along with arguably the best player in the NBA, so they are in a perfectly good position to just keep him and try to win games with him. This would not be the worst player blowup that ever blew over in NBA history.

Superbone wrote:

In2ition wrote:

Superbone wrote:Cleveland has no leverage.

Well, they have the leverage of Kyrie being under contract at least 2 more seasons.

Sure, let them keep their unhappy camper. I'm in 'Bazz's camp. Don't do the deal unless it's one of the lower threshold deals. I'm certainly not putting Jackson in there.

Oh I agree, just think they have a little bit of leverage here where they don't need to take poo poo plater just because that's all they can get.

I think we are vastly overrating our roster right now and underestimating what Kyrie could do. I'd trade anybody but Booker and that includes Jackson. If they wanted to do Kyrie for Bled/JJ, no picks I'd think very long and hard about it. We're losing Bled after next season anyway so he needs to move and probably this year, else his price will likely start to drop.

I get the whole argument about leaving a winner and going somewhere for his own thing, but look what Harden became when he was unleashed (and he doesn't play any D either). It can't be easy to play with LeBron, even though he makes the game easier (apparently). Part of me applauds Kyrie for the balls to go out and do his own thing. I want leaders and guys who want to work for it, not take the easy way out and just sign with the Golden States to chase rings

I'd welcome Kyrie with open arms and if we can get him without including JJ then our man McD really might be a Jedi. I think the #timeline is cute and all but if there is a way to fast track this thing let's do it. The 6, 7, 8 spots will be up for grabs and count me among those who wants it. I want Booker to start getting a taste of winning...and soon. The future offers no guarantees and we've had such good luck in the lottery.

Greg Moore of AZCentral agrees that Jackson shouldn't be entertained in trade talks for Irving:

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/n ... 515074001/

There are lots of reasons why the Suns should trade for Cavaliers guard Kyrie Irving, and here’s hoping General Manager Ryan McDonough ignores any that would require giving up first-round pick Josh Jackson. (And even some that don’t.)

Yes, Irving is a generational offensive talent. The guy dribbles like a Globetrotter and makes more shots than a bartender.

And, yes, he’s a known commodity. Irving averaged 25 points per game last year. And he’s been to the Finals three seasons in a row.

But the Suns have a plan in place, focusing on development. Barring something transcendent, they need to stick to it. You don’t step over a dollar to pick up a dime. And once you make a thoughtful decision, you should see it through.

Read more...

Superbone wrote:Greg Moore of AZCentral agrees that Jackson shouldn't be entertained in trade talks for Irving:

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/n ... 515074001/

There are lots of reasons why the Suns should trade for Cavaliers guard Kyrie Irving, and here’s hoping General Manager Ryan McDonough ignores any that would require giving up first-round pick Josh Jackson. (And even some that don’t.)

Yes, Irving is a generational offensive talent. The guy dribbles like a Globetrotter and makes more shots than a bartender.

And, yes, he’s a known commodity. Irving averaged 25 points per game last year. And he’s been to the Finals three seasons in a row.

But the Suns have a plan in place, focusing on development. Barring something transcendent, they need to stick to it. You don’t step over a dollar to pick up a dime. And once you make a thoughtful decision, you should see it through.

Read more...

All the more reason to do it. He's the new guy and can you really trust someone with this list of top sports movies? No Bull Durham? No Rocky? No Varsity Blues?
http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/2 ... 377181001/

I really liked Any Given Sunday and I am enjoying watching The Rock on Ballers.