Phx-Suns.Net

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:It's hard to challenge the claim that Josh Jackson has been a big disappointment so far. Other than #1 pick Markelle Fultz, has there been a bigger draft bust this year (relative to the spot at which he was picked and the expectations on him) than Jackson?

I'm not thrilled with Josh, but I don't think he's even close to the biggest bust so far. That's Zack Collins. If you want to say the Suns front office is the biggest draft bust because they shouldn't have picked a SF and signed Warren, then I'm on board with that.

Who drafted after Josh is clearly better? It's hard to call someone the biggest draft bust of the season if better players weren't drafted after him. And if you are going to knock Jackson for his shooting, you certainly can't leave Ball out of the conversation.

Kuzma
Mitchel ?
Markkanen ?

Ya ball has been the biggest bust relative to draft position if your just asking who has struggled the most. He's shooting like 30% from the field and 40 something % from the FT line. Calling someone a bust 1/4 of the way through their rookie season is kinda dumb though. Way too early to tell.

n4th4n wrote:Nate Duncan and Danny Leroux just eviscerated Josh Jackson on their 15 in 60 Western Conference podcast today. Honestly, it was hard to disagree with what they were saying. Other than a few flashes on D, he is is essentially doing nothing at an acceptable NBA level at the moment. One of the reasons I was excited about him going into the draft is that I thought he could play minutes as a 4 as he did in college, but I am becoming less confident he can play that role in the NBA.

I don’t like those dudes. Some of the things they say about booker make me question whether they actually watch the Suns.


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I will continue to support Josh and I think the Bust takes are premature if not ridiculous by whoever those guys are . most of our expectations was great athlete high motor will be a beast in transition (well poor PG play has really hindered that) , potentially good wing defender (I think he's been doing well) and ability to facilitate off the dribble (still one too many turnovers but I can easily see that developing)

As for the other two we were mainly discussing as choices in the draft
Tatum has been excellent but he wasn't there at 4 so no need rehashing all of that.
Fox who happens to be in a similar position as Josh coming off the bench is also struggling, just shooting 38% and under 30% from deep last month. Frank Mason (college player of the year) has been just as good or better than Fox recently and some folks are saying because he was a 4yr college player he is handling the transition better.

I know couple folks had Markkanen as their pick who has done well but didn't see us drafting another PF. As for the others making headlines , Dennis Smith has been on some highlight reels but is another although avging double digits (getting the FGA) also shot under 40% last month too. Ntilikina has shown flashes but will take time to develop also, I mentioned how happy I am for Mitchell but he was never an option where we were drafting.
So just my opinion that it is simply way too early for those takes, lots of rooks are struggling even if at a glance their numbers look decent and most of the few playing well we didn't have a chance to draft

I'm pretty sure the front office was hoping Josh Jackson to be in the Kawhi mold. So with that in mind, I think it's wise to be patient. Kawhi wasn't the player he is now the first 2 years of his career, he too couldn't shoot straight. What worries me more isn't drafting, but development. We need to invest in proper training for our young players. Better coaching for sure, but better skills coaching even more so.

Uh, not true man. Kawhi shot 49% from the field, 37% from 3 and 77% from FT his rookie year

He also had good form to begin with. Jackson's shot is broke and it ain't gettin' fixed.

ShelC wrote:He also had good form to begin with. Jackson's shot is broke and it ain't gettin' fixed.

The only reason Jackson wouldn't do everything to fix his shot form, is ego. Ego can be a killer of improvement, but it can also drive you to improve. Which kind of Ego does Jackson have?

ShelC wrote:Jackson's shot is broke and it ain't gettin' fixed.

whether it can be fixed is the million dollar question
like others, i agree he's shown enough potential in other areas and should improve with time and experience

3 of the top 5 draft top picks have a serious issue with their shots
(2 clearly have faulty mechanics that should have been addressed earlier in their careers but college coaches don't have enough time to work with them)

can anyone cite any other players who have come into the nba with bad form that was corrected?

https://twitter.com/sbordow/status/940686043606478848

Again, another example that we overvalue our "prospects." not 1 team thought he was worth claiming.

another pessimistic approach is to consider how many players with bad form have been succesful in the NBA over the past 30 years?
not many, if you eliminate big men who get their points muscling in on the inside, dunking or hooking

Marion comes to mind, but his bread and butter was not his outside shot. in the end, i was glad we got rid of him because he was taking too many funky threes

i recall, perhaps, it was Hot Rod Williams who had a behind the head crank shot, but again he got most of his points another way and was not a great success story anyway

speaking of form, besides Booker, Bender has the best stroke.

specialsauce wrote:Again, another example that we overvalue our "prospects." not 1 team thought he was worth claiming.

Waiving him and signing him to our D-league ream displays overvaluing...?

n4th4n wrote:

specialsauce wrote:Again, another example that we overvalue our "prospects." not 1 team thought he was worth claiming.

Waiving him and signing him to our D-league ream displays overvaluing...?

I think they talked him up a lot in training camp and preseason and many fans seem to be enamored with him because he jumps high. In reality, he's an athlete who probably will never be good at basketball. He's our new Archie Goodwin.

1tinsoldier wrote:speaking of form, besides Booker, Bender has the best stroke.

He looks great when he is patient and confident. He has problems when he rushes things.

specialsauce wrote:Again, another example that we overvalue our "prospects." not 1 team thought he was worth claiming.

I have liked what I saw from him in limited minutes for us. He's mostly an athlete for now, but he plays hard, seems to know where to be on defense, runs the floor, and can finish with a rim-rattling dunk or two. I like him better than Josh Jackson as a prospect, for example. I think he'd make a better pro than Jackson if we just gave him the minutes.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: I like him better than Josh Jackson as a prospect, for example. I think he'd make a better pro than Jackson if we just gave him the minutes.

A hot take!

O_Gardino wrote:

1tinsoldier wrote:speaking of form, besides Booker, Bender has the best stroke.

He looks great when he is patient and confident. He has problems when he rushes things.

agree
his problem is his lower half -- getting his legs set and balanced
he usually has time to either dribble once or hop to straighten his legs under him, but doesn't
then he needs a little hop on his shot instead of shooting flat footed

time and experience is likely to help in those areas, as he becomes more comfortable, less tight

that's why if i had to pick, i might keep him over Chriss. Chriss is better now, but i believe Bender is more likely to improve into a valuable role playing big man who can spread the floor like Frye used to.

1tinsoldier wrote:

O_Gardino wrote:

1tinsoldier wrote:speaking of form, besides Booker, Bender has the best stroke.

He looks great when he is patient and confident. He has problems when he rushes things.

agree
his problem is his lower half -- getting his legs set and balanced
he usually has time to either dribble once or hop to straighten his legs under him, but doesn't
then he needs a little hop on his shot instead of shooting flat footed

time and experience is likely to help in those areas, as he becomes more comfortable, less tight

that's why if i had to pick, i might keep him over Chriss. Chriss is better now, but i believe Bender is more likely to improve into a valuable role playing big man who can spread the floor like Frye used to.

+1000