Around the League: Week 16 1/29-2/4

[Ring_Wanted]

The Celtics have only 5 players not on rookie contracts on their roster: Hayward, Horford, Irving, Morris and Baynes. They really have no business being as good as they are.

It is amazing what you can do when you:
A) Draft well
B) Coach well
C) Make good trades

You know, when you have a GM and owner that are good at their jobs.

Ainge is doing great, but the coach is the real gem. Their '15-16 season is where all started (first full year of IT, nothing else on that roster but role players) and it was mainly due to his outstanding coaching; without the winning he provided the Celtics would be just another rebuilding team hoarding assets for the future unable to draw interest from stars.

[In2ition]

Idk what each Suns fans criteria is on who the Suns should or shouldn't pursue. It seems like it's arbitrary and differs from fan to fan. I think the Suns should put the best team together to win the title, not put the nicest guys together and hope the win, because that fits everyone's criteria of "winning the right way." Now that doesn't mean you have to lower your standards in order to put truly distainable people, such as child molesters, murders, theives, and drug dealers on the team.

All comes down to your definition. I know those were just examples, but saying that thieves and drug dealers shouldn't be on the team, but wife beaters and sexual predators should (if they are the good players), makes no sense to me.

Those were just examples, sexual predators and wife beaters should be added.

[Indy]

Idk what each Suns fans criteria is on who the Suns should or shouldn't pursue. It seems like it's arbitrary and differs from fan to fan. I think the Suns should put the best team together to win the title, not put the nicest guys together and hope the win, because that fits everyone's criteria of "winning the right way." Now that doesn't mean you have to lower your standards in order to put truly distainable people, such as child molesters, murders, theives, and drug dealers on the team.

All comes down to your definition. I know those were just examples, but saying that thieves and drug dealers shouldn't be on the team, but wife beaters and sexual predators should (if they are the good players), makes no sense to me.

Those were just examples, sexual predators and wife beaters should be added.

Got it. Then, for the most part, I agree. I am not looking to have people that I would love to hang out with on our team. I just want people that I would like to root for. That means you need to play good team ball, don't do stupid stuff on the court, and not be an awful person to others off the court. I know it seems like a big ask, though. I would not have been able to root for Kobe after his rape stuff, and I couldn't root for Booker if I found out he did something similar.

[Superbone]

Idk what each Suns fans criteria is on who the Suns should or shouldn't pursue. It seems like it's arbitrary and differs from fan to fan. I think the Suns should put the best team together to win the title, not put the nicest guys together and hope the win, because that fits everyone's criteria of "winning the right way." Now that doesn't mean you have to lower your standards in order to put truly distainable people, such as child molesters, murders, theives, and drug dealers on the team.

All comes down to your definition. I know those were just examples, but saying that thieves and drug dealers shouldn't be on the team, but wife beaters and sexual predators should (if they are the good players), makes no sense to me.

Those were just examples, sexual predators and wife beaters should be added.

Got it. Then, for the most part, I agree. I am not looking to have people that I would love to hang out with on our team. I just want people that I would like to root for. That means you need to play good team ball, don't do stupid stuff on the court, and not be an awful person to others off the court. I know it seems like a big ask, though. I would not have been able to root for Kobe after his rape stuff, and I couldn't root for Booker if I found out he did something similar.

One of the reasons it's so easy to root for Booker is that he is such a good kid.

[Cap]

Idk what each Suns fans criteria is on who the Suns should or shouldn't pursue. It seems like it's arbitrary and differs from fan to fan. I think the Suns should put the best team together to win the title, not put the nicest guys together and hope the win, because that fits everyone's criteria of "winning the right way." Now that doesn't mean you have to lower your standards in order to put truly distainable people, such as child molesters, murders, theives, and drug dealers on the team.

All comes down to your definition. I know those were just examples, but saying that thieves and drug dealers shouldn't be on the team, but wife beaters and sexual predators should (if they are the good players), makes no sense to me.

Those were just examples, sexual predators and wife beaters should be added.

Got it. Then, for the most part, I agree. I am not looking to have people that I would love to hang out with on our team. I just want people that I would like to root for. That means you need to play good team ball, don't do stupid stuff on the court, and not be an awful person to others off the court. I know it seems like a big ask, though. I would not have been able to root for Kobe after his rape stuff, and I couldn't root for Booker if I found out he did something similar.

One of the reasons it's so easy to root for Booker is that he is such a good kid.

As far as we know. He's got the same aura about him as a young Kevin Johnson, who also seemed like a really good kid.

[Superbone]

All comes down to your definition. I know those were just examples, but saying that thieves and drug dealers shouldn't be on the team, but wife beaters and sexual predators should (if they are the good players), makes no sense to me.

Those were just examples, sexual predators and wife beaters should be added.

Got it. Then, for the most part, I agree. I am not looking to have people that I would love to hang out with on our team. I just want people that I would like to root for. That means you need to play good team ball, don't do stupid stuff on the court, and not be an awful person to others off the court. I know it seems like a big ask, though. I would not have been able to root for Kobe after his rape stuff, and I couldn't root for Booker if I found out he did something similar.

One of the reasons it's so easy to root for Booker is that he is such a good kid.

As far as we know. He's got the same aura about him as a young Kevin Johnson, who also seemed like a really good kid.

Give me a break. So, then everybody should assume the worst in everybody. Words to live by.

[Wally_West]

https://mobile.twitter.com/wojespn/status/960658386990915584 https://mobile.twitter.com/wojespn/status/960658530083667970

[Split T]

https://mobile.twitter.com/wojespn/status/960658386990915584 https://mobile.twitter.com/wojespn/status/960658530083667970

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/960658721213992960

[The Bobster]

Those were just examples, sexual predators and wife beaters should be added.

Got it. Then, for the most part, I agree. I am not looking to have people that I would love to hang out with on our team. I just want people that I would like to root for. That means you need to play good team ball, don't do stupid stuff on the court, and not be an awful person to others off the court. I know it seems like a big ask, though. I would not have been able to root for Kobe after his rape stuff, and I couldn't root for Booker if I found out he did something similar.

One of the reasons it's so easy to root for Booker is that he is such a good kid.

As far as we know. He's got the same aura about him as a young Kevin Johnson, who also seemed like a really good kid.

Give me a break. So, then everybody should assume the worst in everybody. Words to live by.

Unfortunately, as a fan of Walter Davis and Kevin Johnson you learn that you can be disillusioned by players if you put to much faith in them. Basically, they're strangers. We don't know them and shouldn't expect perfection from them, but we should expect a amount of personal accountability.

With someone like Harden it's different. It's not that he's proven to be a behavioral risk, it's more how he carries himself on the court. That's a personal preference issue.

[Superbone]

Got it. Then, for the most part, I agree. I am not looking to have people that I would love to hang out with on our team. I just want people that I would like to root for. That means you need to play good team ball, don't do stupid stuff on the court, and not be an awful person to others off the court. I know it seems like a big ask, though. I would not have been able to root for Kobe after his rape stuff, and I couldn't root for Booker if I found out he did something similar.

One of the reasons it's so easy to root for Booker is that he is such a good kid.

As far as we know. He's got the same aura about him as a young Kevin Johnson, who also seemed like a really good kid.

Give me a break. So, then everybody should assume the worst in everybody. Words to live by.

Unfortunately, as a fan of Walter Davis and Kevin Johnson you learn that you can be disillusioned by players if you put to much faith in them. Basically, they're strangers. We don't know them and shouldn't expect perfection from them, but we should expect a amount of personal accountability.

With someone like Harden it's different. It's not that he's proven to be a behavioral risk, it's more how he carries himself on the court. That's a personal preference issue.

Yep, that's always a risk. My MO is to see the good in people and hope that they don't change that perception. Of course, I never let somebody else's demons affect my self-worth. So yeah, it's a shame about Davis and Johnson but I will continue to put faith in others until they give me a reason not to.

[JustWinBaby]

“If you don’t stand by your principles when the stakes are at it’s highest, then you don’t have principles, just opinions”

... so yeah, I’m not disappointed if lacking on the team guys as egomaniac as Lebron, wife beaters as Kidd or rapist on the loose (ok, ok, alleged ones) like Kobe prevented us from going all the way to the Top. Championship rings shouldn’t be a blank check to relieve someone from acting like a decent human being.

Of course people have character flaws all over them, but there are limits that must be respected. And of course, within the law, everyone is free to set their own.

Just curious

Is this supposed to be directed at he acquistion of players like Chris Paul, James Harden and Kobe Bryant. I know Kobe had that thing in Denver. However I think he has been clean otherwise. I think both Chris Paul and James Harden have been good citizens off the court, I could be wrong. When did J Kidd beat his wife? I know he reportedly threw a french fry at her. He probably missed. How in the world is Lebron an egomaniac. If we would have ever acquired him they would be building statues of him in this town.

All this righteousness while most of you loved Charels Barkley. I think he had a favorite street where he got good BJ's on a regular basis. You don't think he was well taken care on during his visits to Vegas? He probably has more dirty laundry than all of these guys combined. What about Kevin Johnson? What about Tom Chambers?

Oh that's right you never rooted for these players.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

“If you don’t stand by your principles when the stakes are at it’s highest, then you don’t have principles, just opinions”

... so yeah, I’m not disappointed if lacking on the team guys as egomaniac as Lebron, wife beaters as Kidd or rapist on the loose (ok, ok, alleged ones) like Kobe prevented us from going all the way to the Top. Championship rings shouldn’t be a blank check to relieve someone from acting like a decent human being.

Of course people have character flaws all over them, but there are limits that must be respected. And of course, within the law, everyone is free to set their own.

Just curious

Is this supposed to be directed at he acquistion of players like Chris Paul, James Harden and Kobe Bryant. I know Kobe had that thing in Denver. However I think he has been clean otherwise. I think both Chris Paul and James Harden have been good citizens off the court, I could be wrong. When did J Kidd beat his wife? I know he reportedly threw a french fry at her. He probably missed. How in the world is Lebron an egomaniac. If we would have ever acquired him they would be building statues of him in this town.

All this righteousness while most of you loved Charels Barkley. I think he had a favorite street where he got good BJ's on a regular basis. You don't think he was well taken care on during his visits to Vegas? He probably has more dirty laundry than all of these guys combined. What about Kevin Johnson? What about Tom Chambers?

Oh that's right you never rooted for these players.

I will take borrowed Bobster words, because they are spot on:

Unfortunately, as a fan of Walter Davis and Kevin Johnson you learn that you can be disillusioned by players if you put to much faith in them. Basically, they're strangers. We don't know them and shouldn't expect perfection from them, but we should expect a amount of personal accountability.

I was younger when rooting for those guys, and barely could understand what a “favorite street” was, neither do I read about it until many years after they took their last shot on the court (and this goes without mention that CONSENSUAL is a key word on this kind of equations, so Barkley is far above KJ on this subject). Also, I have come to learn a lot about the silent victims on those life styles, as well as the league, the players and people in general, so I think we subject the current generation to higher standards nowadays. And hear yourself dude, you are basically saying that since players in the past got away with such behavior, it must be condoned to present day people, as long as they are “statue worthy“. Go ahead kneel to them, I’m no one to judge you, but I take a strong hard PASS. Would you give a daughter in sacrifice to a monster in order to see a banner hanging in your town? Why should others suffer it in her place?

I’m not ashamed of recognizing that I’m not as fully invested on this team, or nothing in particular in my life, to allow me to condone “that thing in Denver” kind of stuff, neither try to minimize domestic violence as a “missed fry” in order to get a parade. So I’m allowed a rape once in a lifetime if I remain “clean” otherwise? What about two? How many rings account for one murder? Can I give my wife -easily 30 pounds and 5 inches smaller than me- a good “shake”, a black eye, a visit to the hospital?

People do mistakes, but ACCOUNTABILITY is key, giving free passes on success, even one, is a recipe for disaster. Take it from someone living in a country when corruption is rampant precisely for this kind of moral standards. Tragically, there isn’t a word in spanish for a direct translation from accountability, to put it simple.

Now to talk about players that currently conduct themselves within the limits of the law (on appearance at least), I just said that anybody is free to set his own limits, and I’m not talking about only taking nice guys, but I wouldn’t be capable to root for players like Horry and Bowen on my own team, actively going for injuring another people.

Jerks? Well, I think this a category where everyone have his own taste.

Egocentric players: It’s a tricky one, most athletes cannot get this far without a big dosis of Ego pushing them, but you know, I root for teams, not individuals, that’s how I picked sides in my first NBA Finals (remember that I don’t have any personal ties to the city). Back then, people were aaaaaall about Jordan, worshiped the guy, to the point of discomfort for my taste, so I liked better the underdog TEAM trying to stop him on a concerted effort, It wasn’t Barkley vs Jordan, it was the Suns against his Airness, so it was an easy pick for me. But I respect Jordan and his legacy, and back then there was still a “Mega Star within the team” vibe when it comes to players.

Today, it is more about “individual brands”, and that’s fine, they have to monetize their window of excellence, but when you have players like Lebron, almost humiliating a front office, a lockeroom, an entire fan base, to subject them to his “wishes”, well, that’s not something I would like to happen to my team, not even for a Banner. You are so fixed on winning that you don’t care, I do. I don’t like a guy appointing himself as “The King” with the “God-wills-it” flair he does, Jordan at least was some sort of Constitutional King, not an Absolutist like Lebron.

I must confess that Amare was my least favorite player on the SSOL years, and would have welcomed multiple trades for him, specially the KG one that was targeted on Marion. So alike he and Lebron, but at least James have delivered, I must concede.

And I could go on and on detailing you my PERSONAL taste on players, but it’s clear that we approach competition from very different angles, I'm not a “winning at all costs” kind of guy, you obviously are, so let’s agree to disagree within players that just are jerks on or off the court, but regarding players with more than shady actions on his background, well, I’m sorry, I can not see you to the eyes and respect your posture, not that you care.

Being “serious about winning” and the word Winner itself, includes for me a really big component of HOW you won and WHO you are.

[Indy]

“If you don’t stand by your principles when the stakes are at it’s highest, then you don’t have principles, just opinions”

... so yeah, I’m not disappointed if lacking on the team guys as egomaniac as Lebron, wife beaters as Kidd or rapist on the loose (ok, ok, alleged ones) like Kobe prevented us from going all the way to the Top. Championship rings shouldn’t be a blank check to relieve someone from acting like a decent human being.

Of course people have character flaws all over them, but there are limits that must be respected. And of course, within the law, everyone is free to set their own.

Just curious

Is this supposed to be directed at he acquistion of players like Chris Paul, James Harden and Kobe Bryant. I know Kobe had that thing in Denver. However I think he has been clean otherwise. I think both Chris Paul and James Harden have been good citizens off the court, I could be wrong. When did J Kidd beat his wife? I know he reportedly threw a french fry at her. He probably missed. How in the world is Lebron an egomaniac. If we would have ever acquired him they would be building statues of him in this town.

All this righteousness while most of you loved Charels Barkley. I think he had a favorite street where he got good BJ's on a regular basis. You don't think he was well taken care on during his visits to Vegas? He probably has more dirty laundry than all of these guys combined. What about Kevin Johnson? What about Tom Chambers?

Oh that's right you never rooted for these players.

Are you fucking kidding me?

[The Bobster]

I wasn't really a Barkley fan when he played here. I knew he helped the team win, and I didn't care what his personal life was like, but he had a few public incidents like the one at the bar in Milwaukee when he played for the 76ers that showed (at best) some pretty poor judgement.

That said, Barkley was right when he said he wasn't a role model. He did have an obligation to be a good citizen however.

Prior to the investigative reporting of Watergate the media tended to shy away from reporting personal dalliances and raucous behavior of public figures. This held true in sports as well as players like Mickey Mantle, Babe Ruth and Wilt Chamberlain lived some interesting lifestyles. But once BALL FOUR was written and Watergate took place everyone wanted to break the next big story and pretty much every aspect of a player's personal life was fair game. Sportswriters no longer overlooked the public behavior of players like Mantle, Whitey Ford and Billy Martin, like they had in the 50's and 60's (Of course the evolution of the public perception of these athletes as drunk white fratboys in the 60's to young black drug users in the 70's certainly contributed to this). Even players (and former players) would write tell-all books that reveal what was swept under the rug years before.

The question is how much do you overlook? Mantle's carousing certainly didn't hurt the Yankees dynasty that much (but they certainly weren't going to put up with it for long from Martin as they traded him away). In the NBA there have been countless talented players who had very public run-ins with the law, from Kareem (whose problems were minor in retrospect) to Bernard King, J.R. Rider and Jayson Williams.

It's a slippery slope when you start condoning poor behavior, but I don't think isolated incidents should be views the same was as patterns of behavior.

[Indy]

I wasn't really a Barkley fan when he played here. I knew he helped the team win, and I didn't care what his personal life was like, but he had a few public incidents like the one at the bar in Milwaukee when he played for the 76ers that showed (at best) some pretty poor judgement.

That said, Barkley was right when he said he wasn't a role model. He did have an obligation to be a good citizen however.

Prior to the investigative reporting of Watergate the media tended to shy away from reporting personal dalliances and raucous behavior of public figures. This held true in sports as well as players like Mickey Mantle, Babe Ruth and Wilt Chamberlain lived some interesting lifestyles. But once BALL FOUR was written and Watergate took place everyone wanted to break the next big story and pretty much every aspect of a player's personal life was fair game. Sportswriters no longer overlooked the public behavior of players like Mantle, Whitey Ford and Billy Martin, like they had in the 50's and 60's (Of course the evolution of the public perception of these athletes as drunk white fratboys in the 60's to young black drug users in the 70's certainly contributed to this). Even players (and former players) would write tell-all books that reveal what was swept under the rug years before.

The question is how much do you overlook? Mantle's carousing certainly didn't hurt the Yankees dynasty that much (but they certainly weren't going to put up with it for long from Martin as they traded him away). In the NBA there have been countless talented players who had very public run-ins with the law, from Kareem (whose problems were minor in retrospect) to Bernard King, J.R. Rider and Jayson Williams.

It's a slippery slope when you start condoning poor behavior, but I don't think isolated incidents should be views the same was as patterns of behavior.

This. You should be a writer.

[The Bobster]

Yeah, if the money was better I would retire and cranking out basketball history books!

[LazarusLong]

I wasn't really a Barkley fan when he played here. I knew he helped the team win, and I didn't care what his personal life was like, but he had a few public incidents like the one at the bar in Milwaukee when he played for the 76ers that showed (at best) some pretty poor judgement.

That said, Barkley was right when he said he wasn't a role model. He did have an obligation to be a good citizen however.

Prior to the investigative reporting of Watergate the media tended to shy away from reporting personal dalliances and raucous behavior of public figures. This held true in sports as well as players like Mickey Mantle, Babe Ruth and Wilt Chamberlain lived some interesting lifestyles. But once BALL FOUR was written and Watergate took place everyone wanted to break the next big story and pretty much every aspect of a player's personal life was fair game. Sportswriters no longer overlooked the public behavior of players like Mantle, Whitey Ford and Billy Martin, like they had in the 50's and 60's (Of course the evolution of the public perception of these athletes as drunk white fratboys in the 60's to young black drug users in the 70's certainly contributed to this). Even players (and former players) would write tell-all books that reveal what was swept under the rug years before.

The question is how much do you overlook? Mantle's carousing certainly didn't hurt the Yankees dynasty that much (but they certainly weren't going to put up with it for long from Martin as they traded him away). In the NBA there have been countless talented players who had very public run-ins with the law, from Kareem (whose problems were minor in retrospect) to Bernard King, J.R. Rider and Jayson Williams.

It's a slippery slope when you start condoning poor behavior, but I don't think isolated incidents should be views the same was as patterns of behavior.

Social media also has contributed, plus, of course, the monster that ABC and ESPN has created.
The entertainment/sports media industry is a voracious beast that must be fed 24/7, due to the appetite of fanboys and fangirls everywhere.
Everybody and his grandmother has a fantasy league team, it seems.

[Cap]

Little late to the party, but BdotAdot5's Harden imitation is worth a watch:

[youtube][/youtube]

[Mori Chu]

^ LMAO