Phx-Suns.Net

Xylus wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:50 am

I think the 50-40-90 club is underrated. The guys on that list are indisputably the greatest shooters in NBA history. It's almost unbelievable that Nash made the list in 4 different seasons.

Nash would have hit it in 5 seasons straight but he shot--no lie--89.9% from FT in 2006-2007. Ironically that was his best shooting year: 53-45-89.

I very much agree with you with one caveat. Usage has to be fairly good. But absolutely, efficiency is a very important reason teams win. High usage low efficiency players damage their teams ability to win. That is why I have always felt Melo was over rated.

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:11 am

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:06 pm

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:03 pm

Sarver is at practice and shoot around. "Involved to some extent" is really playing it down.

Should an owner not be at practice or shoot around? Doesn't seem far fetched that he's the only owner that attends them.

If the owner of my company sat and watched me do my day to day work, I would find a new job asap. He should watch the final product and stay out of the details of how that comes to be.

If I am the owner of a company, I would look at the final product first. When that sucks, you ask a lot of questions. If that doesn't help, you go down a layer. The worse your company performs, the more you should be involved. You may found out the problem is the culture you created, but you can't sit at the top and just keep hoping it turns out better.

JCSunsfan wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:15 am

Xylus wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:50 am

I think the 50-40-90 club is underrated. The guys on that list are indisputably the greatest shooters in NBA history. It's almost unbelievable that Nash made the list in 4 different seasons.

Nash would have hit it in 5 seasons straight but he shot--no lie--89.9% from FT in 2006-2007. Ironically that was his best shooting year: 53-45-89.

I very much agree with you with one caveat. Usage has to be fairly good. But absolutely, efficiency is a very important reason teams win. High usage low efficiency players damage their teams ability to win. That is why I have always felt Melo was over rated.

All on that list besides Kerr and Calderon have USG% above 20.

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:11 am

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:06 pm

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:03 pm

Sarver is at practice and shoot around. "Involved to some extent" is really playing it down.

Should an owner not be at practice or shoot around? Doesn't seem far fetched that he's the only owner that attends them.

If the owner of my company sat and watched me do my day to day work, I would find a new job asap. He should watch the final product and stay out of the details of how that comes to be.

The final product has been atrocious over the past several years. I'd be a bit concerned about how that comes to be. I'm not an owner but I can't say I don't get it either.

Sarver is probably at practice and shootaround to look on the floor to see if anybody dropped any quarters.

Going back to the Gina Mizell insider stuff, I like how she says Sarver wouldn't have elevated James Jones if he didn't have confidence in him. Sorry, don't believe that for one second. Sarver's made it clear he either doesn't want or isn't willing to pay for experience - be it in the front office or coaching (Igor's got experience but not as a head coach). So I don't think it's that Sarver has confidence in Jones, it's that Jones is cheap, he's been with the org already and he probably won't push back on Sarver when it comes to BOps decision making.

ShelC wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:49 am

Going back to the Gina Mizell insider stuff, I like how she says Sarver wouldn't have elevated James Jones if he didn't have confidence in him. Sorry, don't believe that for one second. Sarver's made it clear he either doesn't want or isn't willing to pay for experience - be it in the front office or coaching (Igor's got experience but not as a head coach). So I don't think it's that Sarver has confidence in Jones, it's that Jones in cheap, he's been with the org already and he probably won't push back on Sarver when it comes to BOps decision making.

I agree. All this means is that he was ok with Sarver's micromanaging before he was promoted, and so it would be illogical to expect anything except more of the same.

Is it micromanaging if you're on the same page? Bidwell, Keim and Bruce Arians had a very fruitful run because they we're typically on the wholistic same page, even when they didn't agree, and that allowed them to still make individual decisions. How can any of us just assume Jones and Sarver are only a pair because he's cheap, inexperienced and allows Sarver to micromanage him? They've apparently had a friendship and close involvement for some time. I get that Sarver has sucked in his decision making and meddling but what if this works out because they both work out together fundamentally?

The glass has been half empty (okay, 90% empty) for quite awhile. But it sometimes feels good to try and ponder positivity from time to time. Some of you should try it out.

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:20 am

But it sometimes feels good to try and ponder positivity from time to time. Some of you should try it out.

OK, I am 100% positive that Sarver is fucking things up again.

You’re right, that did feel good.

jonh wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:52 am

ShelC wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:49 am

Going back to the Gina Mizell insider stuff, I like how she says Sarver wouldn't have elevated James Jones if he didn't have confidence in him. Sorry, don't believe that for one second. Sarver's made it clear he either doesn't want or isn't willing to pay for experience - be it in the front office or coaching (Igor's got experience but not as a head coach). So I don't think it's that Sarver has confidence in Jones, it's that Jones in cheap, he's been with the org already and he probably won't push back on Sarver when it comes to BOps decision making.

I agree. All this means is that he was ok with Sarver's micromanaging before he was promoted, and so it would be illogical to expect anything except more of the same.

Yep.

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:19 am

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:11 am

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:06 pm

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:03 pm

Sarver is at practice and shoot around. "Involved to some extent" is really playing it down.

Should an owner not be at practice or shoot around? Doesn't seem far fetched that he's the only owner that attends them.

If the owner of my company sat and watched me do my day to day work, I would find a new job asap. He should watch the final product and stay out of the details of how that comes to be.

The final product has been atrocious over the past several years. I'd be a bit concerned about how that comes to be. I'm not an owner but I can't say I don't get it either.

Indy wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:28 am

If I am the owner of a company, I would look at the final product first. When that sucks, you ask a lot of questions. If that doesn't help, you go down a layer. The worse your company performs, the more you should be involved. You may found out the problem is the culture you created, but you can't sit at the top and just keep hoping it turns out better.

That's some William Shatner leadership! It only works on TV.

People can only manage effectively 2 layers up or down from their position. You know enough to do the work of the people who directly report to you, and you know enough about the folks who report to them that you can talk about and manage that work. Any farther down the chain and you just don't know enough to even have a useful conversation about the technical details of the work. Sure, you can ask general questions. But if you don't trust your direct reports to do that, you need to do your job and lead or replace those people.

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:20 am

The glass has been half empty (okay, 90% empty) for quite awhile. But it sometimes feels good to try and ponder positivity from time to time. Some of you should try it out.

To be honest, I think pessimism (or a more realistic perspective) is a defense mechanism 8 years in the making. It is hard to look on the brightside regarding the Suns and continuously being disappointed. I've found that my predictions (and the accompanying emotional roller-coaster) are usually more accurate with the franchise right now if I expect mediocrity. Its not a great life for a fan, but it is hard to think about continuing to support the team using a glass-half full approach with the amount of disappointment over the last 8 years.

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:20 am

Is it micromanaging if you're on the same page? Bidwell, Keim and Bruce Arians had a very fruitful run because they we're typically on the wholistic same page, even when they didn't agree, and that allowed them to still make individual decisions. How can any of us just assume Jones and Sarver are only a pair because he's cheap, inexperienced and allows Sarver to micromanage him? They've apparently had a friendship and close involvement for some time. I get that Sarver has sucked in his decision making and meddling but what if this works out because they both work out together fundamentally?

The glass has been half empty (okay, 90% empty) for quite awhile. But it sometimes feels good to try and ponder positivity from time to time. Some of you should try it out.

“Blind optimism for the future having seen the same failed result over and over again without any change of the common denominator, is the fool’s path to insanity”

- Ron Burgundy

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:00 pm

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:20 am

Is it micromanaging if you're on the same page? Bidwell, Keim and Bruce Arians had a very fruitful run because they we're typically on the wholistic same page, even when they didn't agree, and that allowed them to still make individual decisions. How can any of us just assume Jones and Sarver are only a pair because he's cheap, inexperienced and allows Sarver to micromanage him? They've apparently had a friendship and close involvement for some time. I get that Sarver has sucked in his decision making and meddling but what if this works out because they both work out together fundamentally?

The glass has been half empty (okay, 90% empty) for quite awhile. But it sometimes feels good to try and ponder positivity from time to time. Some of you should try it out.

“Blind optimism for the future having seen the same failed result over and over again without any change of the common denominator, is the fool’s path to insanity”

- Ron Burgundy

"They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time, it works every time."

Brian Fantana

https://twitter.com/ginamizell/status/1063520866095382528

I hope everything is ok with him and his family.

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:01 pm

I hope everything is ok with him and his family.

Me too. And I hope we are done playing him meaningful minutes.

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:50 am

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:19 am

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:11 am

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:06 pm

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:03 pm

Sarver is at practice and shoot around. "Involved to some extent" is really playing it down.

Should an owner not be at practice or shoot around? Doesn't seem far fetched that he's the only owner that attends them.

If the owner of my company sat and watched me do my day to day work, I would find a new job asap. He should watch the final product and stay out of the details of how that comes to be.

The final product has been atrocious over the past several years. I'd be a bit concerned about how that comes to be. I'm not an owner but I can't say I don't get it either.

Indy wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:28 am

If I am the owner of a company, I would look at the final product first. When that sucks, you ask a lot of questions. If that doesn't help, you go down a layer. The worse your company performs, the more you should be involved. You may found out the problem is the culture you created, but you can't sit at the top and just keep hoping it turns out better.

That's some William Shatner leadership! It only works on TV.

People can only manage effectively 2 layers up or down from their position. You know enough to do the work of the people who directly report to you, and you know enough about the folks who report to them that you can talk about and manage that work. Any farther down the chain and you just don't know enough to even have a useful conversation about the technical details of the work. Sure, you can ask general questions. But if you don't trust your direct reports to do that, you need to do your job and lead or replace those people.

I don't think you have to be managing people at that level (more than 3 below you) to have an influence. If you are the one ultimately responsible, you need to know why it isn't working. And (like you said), if your direct reports aren't getting those answers, you need to replace them. (Let's ignore that Sarver has done that multiple times now, without positive results.)

And we are talking about a small company here. The Suns probably employ around 150 people or so, with another 100-150 in ticket sales. It should be very easy for him to be seen and talk to every employee he has regularly. But I get the sense he only talks to "important" ones and ignores many of them. The reports on his leadership style from early on were pretty telling.

------
All of this said, I think Sarver has been an awful influence on the Phoenix Suns culture, and it clearly shows on the court. I am not defending him, just saying that if you are leading a big team and it isn't going well, you can't stay in your corner office and bitch about it. You go figure out what is wrong and get it fixed.

jonh wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:14 am

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:20 am

The glass has been half empty (okay, 90% empty) for quite awhile. But it sometimes feels good to try and ponder positivity from time to time. Some of you should try it out.

To be honest, I think pessimism (or a more realistic perspective) is a defense mechanism 8 years in the making. It is hard to look on the brightside regarding the Suns and continuously being disappointed. I've found that my predictions (and the accompanying emotional roller-coaster) are usually more accurate with the franchise right now if I expect mediocrity. Its not a great life for a fan, but it is hard to think about continuing to support the team using a glass-half full approach with the amount of disappointment over the last 8 years.

This. Always hoping for the best and welcoming the forthcoming success with open arms leads to being continually kicked in the dick. Expecting them to be about the same as they have been lets you protect your junk a little more effectively.

jonh wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:05 pm

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:00 pm

AmareIsGod wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:20 am

Is it micromanaging if you're on the same page? Bidwell, Keim and Bruce Arians had a very fruitful run because they we're typically on the wholistic same page, even when they didn't agree, and that allowed them to still make individual decisions. How can any of us just assume Jones and Sarver are only a pair because he's cheap, inexperienced and allows Sarver to micromanage him? They've apparently had a friendship and close involvement for some time. I get that Sarver has sucked in his decision making and meddling but what if this works out because they both work out together fundamentally?

The glass has been half empty (okay, 90% empty) for quite awhile. But it sometimes feels good to try and ponder positivity from time to time. Some of you should try it out.

“Blind optimism for the future having seen the same failed result over and over again without any change of the common denominator, is the fool’s path to insanity”

- Ron Burgundy

"They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time, it works every time."

Brian Fantana

I love lamp.

-Brick Tamland