Phx-Suns.Net

ShelC wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:53 am

But that's literally their job to know players, teams and the league. Getting Rubio and thinking he'd help a young team with no point guard and no leadership wasn't even that farfetched. Rozier and DAR would've cost more, been higher risk with maybe lower reward IMO but we would've been lauded for signing either. And maybe it was just guys going for a "hot take" or a "haha stupid, inept Suns" angle but Rubio was never a joke of a player and this might be the perfect roster/situation he's been in. Just seemed like because we've been trash for 10 years meant that Rubio was a dumb signing and wouldn't work out. Nothing to do with basketball.

Right, I think being a national media reporter would be tough. To know enough and spend enough time on all 30 teams is just not feasible. They just aren’t going to spend the time it would take to see if the suns moves were actually smart. They were confusing on the surface, even many of us here were confused by them at first. Those people who gave us F’s just never bothered to look past the surface.

I spent a some time trying to explain to a few non suns fans what the suns were doing this off season. I think the drastic shift from McD’s tenure of hoarding young unproven players to JJ’s tenure of adding actual useful nba players confused people. In the surface, you look at a team and go, they’re bad, they should tank. We’ve been programmed to think that tanking is the only way to build a better team.

I think most people underrated our “good” players as well. Booker has always been widely underrated by national people because the suns don’t win games. People don’t care who else is on your team past your top few guys, so they don’t really notice when half your rotation should be playing in the g-league. They don’t put the blame on those guys, instead they say, well Booker and Ayton must not be that good if they can’t win 20 games.

Basically, it just takes some time and effort to see why the suns off season made sense and why it led to what we have seen so far this season. Many of us figured it out, but we’re the suckers who stuck with this team the last decade, of course we’re going to put in the time to figure it out. It’s not surprising that many in the national media didn’t.

ShelC wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:53 am

But that's literally their job to know players, teams and the league. Getting Rubio and thinking he'd help a young team with no point guard and no leadership wasn't even that farfetched. Rozier and DAR would've cost more, been higher risk with maybe lower reward IMO but we would've been lauded for signing either. And maybe it was just guys going for a "hot take" or a "haha stupid, inept Suns" angle but Rubio was never a joke of a player and this might be the perfect roster/situation he's been in. Just seemed like because we've been trash for 10 years meant that Rubio was a dumb signing and wouldn't work out. Nothing to do with basketball.

I am curious how many games/week most NBA writers watch. I don't mean a clip of some highlights, but actual game play. There are about 40 games per week. If you get the NBA league pass extra (whatever it is called) and you watch the game without stoppage, FTs, etc, you could watch every game in about 40 hours. Or pick half the games, and watch it in 20 hours, and make sure you rotate teams.

But I get the feeling that most "reporters" watch 3-5 games a week.

It's frankly embarrassing for these "professional" writers. Also, herd mentality. Almost everything the Suns have done the last 8 years has been bad so this must all be bad too. Giving the Rubio acquisition an F was so lazy and tired.

That will just make it that much sweeter when they are proven wrong.

Lots of people thought Rubio was holding back the Jazz and that he held back the Wolves because he's not a good shooter. They didn't look at him as a solid vet; they saw him as a proven flawed player.

ESPN’s RPM stat made its season debut. Rubio comes in 20th in the NBA. He’s tied for the 4th best at PG, and that’s counting Harden and Simmons as PG’s. Baynes comes in at 34 and the 3rd ranked Center. Booker at 53, his defensive numbers still bring him down, though not as much. His ORPM is good for 9th in the league.

Interesting note, Rubio would lead all jazz players in RPM.

Split T wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:25 am

I think most people underrated our “good” players as well. Booker has always been widely underrated by national people because the suns don’t win games. People don’t care who else is on your team past your top few guys, so they don’t really notice when half your rotation should be playing in the g-league. They don’t put the blame on those guys, instead they say, well Booker and Ayton must not be that good if they can’t win 20 games.

I always point to one thing when people say "player X is not a winning player:"

Kevin Garnett won the MVP in 03-04. He played in 82 games the following year, put up almost identical numbers and the Wolves did not make the playoffs.

It's a team sport and only the cream of the cream can will teams to the playoffs by themselves.

Shabazz wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:36 pm

Split T wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:25 am

I think most people underrated our “good” players as well. Booker has always been widely underrated by national people because the suns don’t win games. People don’t care who else is on your team past your top few guys, so they don’t really notice when half your rotation should be playing in the g-league. They don’t put the blame on those guys, instead they say, well Booker and Ayton must not be that good if they can’t win 20 games.

I always point to one thing when people say "player X is not a winning player:"

Kevin Garnett won the MVP in 03-04. He played in 82 games the following year, put up almost identical numbers and the Wolves did not make the playoffs.

It's a team sport and only the cream of the cream can will teams to the playoffs by themselves.

Just to show that ANYTHING IS PUSSIBLEEEEEE

ShelC wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:53 am

Getting Rubio and thinking he'd help a young team with no point guard and no leadership wasn't even that farfetched.

ShelC wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:30 am

I'll never understand how/why some people thought we were a joke for signing Rubio to that contract this offseason.

Rubio is a mediocre player that the Suns gave substantial money to. So yeah, it was a move open to criticism. He can't shoot and his defense has started to slip over the years, especially last year.

But the Suns have been one of the worst teams in the league with virtually nothing at the point guard spot. So yeah, it won't be hard to improve on that. I think the question is, "what are you trying to achieve?" If you're just trying to not suck, then that lowers the bar when it comes to evaluating acquisitions. If you are trying to build a contender, then your standards are going to be higher. And I get the "you have to crawl before you walk" perspective, but I also believe that building a contender starts at the very beginning of building a team; you don't build a mediocre team and then say, "hey, let's start making moves to contend."

Still, I think Rubio's playmaking has been exceptional, and we've seen a better Rubio than what he has been the last couple of years. At end of the day, though, we're still a team under .500.

If you think Rubio's mediocre and the 16mil a year for 3 years we gave him is "substantial", then we just fundamentally disagree. Here's a list of all the NBA salaries for everyone to check out. Lots of guys making substantial money apparently but I don't think they're as good as Rubio is or has been for us.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/co ... ayers.html

If you're going to use the "Why sign anyone who won't bring us a title" logic when talking sports, best of luck. Sometimes you have to at least build something up to be competitive, learn how to win and attract attention. The Nets built a mediocre team with some holes in it but proved themselves serious as a organization top to bottom, gradually improved over 3 years and ended up attracting two top FAs. Can't keep dumping for lotto picks or hoping a 1A FA will take the money. And we've seen what happens when you have a bunch of 18-19 year old draft picks and sign some "vets" to help develop them while competing. NY is trying that plan now.

Still, I think Rubio's playmaking has been exceptional, and we've seen a better Rubio than what he has been the last couple of years. At end of the day, though, we're still a team under .500.

...without Ayton for 25 games and Rubio and Baynes missing a chunk of those games too.

ShelC wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:49 am

If you think Rubio's mediocre and the 16mil a year for 3 years we gave him is "substantial", then we just fundamentally disagree. Here's a list of all the NBA salaries for everyone to check out. Lots of guys making substantial money apparently but I don't think they're as good as Rubio is or has been for us.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/co ... ayers.html

If you're going to use the "Why sign anyone who won't bring us a title" logic when talking sports, best of luck. Sometimes you have to at least build something up to be competitive, learn how to win and attract attention. The Nets built a mediocre team with some holes in it but proved themselves serious as a organization top to bottom, gradually improved over 3 years and ended up attracting two top FAs. Can't keep dumping for lotto picks or hoping a 1A FA will take the money. And we've seen what happens when you have a bunch of 18-19 year old draft picks and sign some "vets" to help develop them while competing. NY is trying that plan now.

Still, I think Rubio's playmaking has been exceptional, and we've seen a better Rubio than what he has been the last couple of years. At end of the day, though, we're still a team under .500.

...without Ayton for 25 games and Rubio and Baynes missing a chunk of those games too.

Hey, stop shooting facts, let the man adapts reality to his narrative!!!

We are awful, we should be tanking, blowing up the team and keep building trough the draft for eternity. I can get the angry man act during the last several years , but we are having a feel good season against the offseason odds, and even better against “day after The Suspension” odds!! People keeps bitching even as NO ONE would have predicted this scenario unfolding this way.

We left the bottom... Let’s bitching about not being in the playoffs!!!
We are cracking the top 8... let’s point into the team’s flaws and shortcomings!!!
We are playing solid, fundamental basketball... ooooh, but we are far from contention!!!

Seriously, what an exhausting existence, with no joy on the little things... hopefully no puppies or children are being raised under that method and level of scrutiny...

That isn't what he said. He said that based on the last couple of years, that contract was a lot for Rubio. But he is performing well above expectations--except his awful shooting. And despite his play being out of this world, we are team with a 42% win rate. And with how much drop off there has been in the west this year, we have a real chance to make the playoffs.

Rubio’s awful shooting.

Nash’s awful defense.