Phx-Suns.Net

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 03, 2022 2:45 pm

I'd probably swap Jimmy Butler and Chris Paul's tier. They're very similar, but Butler has been missing a lot of games while Paul has become more durable as he gets older.

I view Butler and CP3 very similarly. I’ve been debating pushing Paul up to the next tier. I’m trying not to count Butler’s injuries against him because I’m more focused on what they do when they’re on the court. Advanced stats absolutely love Jimmy, just like they love CP3. Jimmy is also a huge culture guy that has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way that don’t think like him. CP3 has also run into this. My biggest difference between the two is Jimmy is bigger and harder to scheme away his impact. He’s also more versatile defensively, but they’re probably at least in the same tier.

Indy wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 03, 2022 2:39 pm

It is crazy that Lebron James has been this good for this long. I mean, Kareem only had one season after he turned 30 that he got to 25ppg, and he never missed games during that time. He still played a ton of minutes, but just didn't have those same kind of dominating stats.

I’ve been working on an all time list and trying to quantify it in some way(giving so many points for MVP’s, all-NBA’s, titles, etc.) I include some production stats too(I’m using win shares and BPM as they are really the only catch all metrics that go back far enough.)

Anyways…probably needless to say, but LeBron comes out on top. It’s LeBron(who’s still going), then Jordan, then large gap to Kareem, then another large gap to Magic, Duncan, Bird.

Split T wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 03, 2022 2:51 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 03, 2022 2:45 pm

I'd probably swap Jimmy Butler and Chris Paul's tier. They're very similar, but Butler has been missing a lot of games while Paul has become more durable as he gets older.

I view Butler and CP3 very similarly. I’ve been debating pushing Paul up to the next tier. I’m trying not to count Butler’s injuries against him because I’m more focused on what they do when they’re on the court. Advanced stats absolutely love Jimmy, just like they love CP3. Jimmy is also a huge culture guy that has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way that don’t think like him. CP3 has also run into this. My biggest difference between the two is Jimmy is bigger and harder to scheme away his impact. He’s also more versatile defensively, but they’re probably at least in the same tier.

In 11 seasons he's only had 2 where he hit 70 games played (or even 60 in the shortened seasons). Seems like that should factor in.

Split T wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 03, 2022 2:55 pm

Indy wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 03, 2022 2:39 pm

It is crazy that Lebron James has been this good for this long. I mean, Kareem only had one season after he turned 30 that he got to 25ppg, and he never missed games during that time. He still played a ton of minutes, but just didn't have those same kind of dominating stats.

I’ve been working on an all time list and trying to quantify it in some way(giving so many points for MVP’s, all-NBA’s, titles, etc.) I include some production stats too(I’m using win shares and BPM as they are really the only catch all metrics that go back far enough.)

Anyways…probably needless to say, but LeBron comes out on top. It’s LeBron(who’s still going), then Jordan, then large gap to Kareem, then another large gap to Magic, Duncan, Bird.

Yeah if you are counting full career, that feels about right. For sustained peaks (not just single seasons) it is probably Jordan #1, then LeBron, followed a lot more closely by that same group of Kareem, Magic, Duncan, and Bird.

There is a peak aspect to it. Basically I take their production(playoff and regular season) during their peak(I’m using a 5 year peak)

Isolating that out of the bigger picture has Jordan 1st and LeBron 2nd…you’d be surprised who comes up 3rd though which makes me think I need to take a closer look. It’s Kawhi. But his BPM during the playoffs at his peak is better than anyone not named Jordan and his WS/48 come in only behind Jordan, LeBron, and Kareem. He’s got a top 10 peak BPM during the regular season too.

I wish we had some better catch all stats in the nba though as they don’t paint the whole picture. A few all-timers don’t do to well because their advanced stats are a little lacking(Hakeem and Moses) A few other guys get a big boost because they are advanced stat legends(David Robinson, Chris Paul, Kawhi, and Harden)

I really enjoy JJ Riddick's pod casts.

^ That tracks. CP3 was clearly dealing with some bad injuries in last year's playoffs (and he even caught COVID!). Pretty impressive that he played through it all.

Split T wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 03, 2022 5:12 pm

Redick must not have paid attention to the playoffs last year. Everyone and their dog knew that phoenix lucked out and only got to the finals because every team standing in their way got hurt while the Suns were fully healthy.

Love this:

That Lakers series was like 8 months ago. People already forgot about Paul's injury? I remember him making one "shot" from the elbow that looked like a shot put from his hip.

Here are the two shots he hit after the game:

Defense dropped from #3 two weeks ago to #4 last week and #9 this week...

As mentioned above, JJ and CP3 choppin' it up

HOLY SHIT, YOU GUYS!!!!!! IT’S ABOUT TO MAYBE GO DOWN!!!!

(7 days later)

Wow guys, like I said, most important week in Suns history. Standing pat and not making any trades was the most important decision the Suns could make. Just as I predicted. Very interesting. Flex out!

Already covering bases

so glad i don't follow that guy

speaking of who to follow, does anyone on here have a good Twitter List for Suns and NBA news?

I see Klay looked like his old self last night