Phx-Suns.Net

Yes that’s a great deal

Indy wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:51 pm

I just saw someone say that the only way all sides could reconcile and not lose face would be for Ayton to get more money from us than any other team could offer him, even if that is over 5 years instead of 4. If so, would everyone be happy with a:

5 year, 133M contract (probably with player option for year 5)

Code: Select all

Yr1      Yr2    Yr3     Yr4     Yr5     Tot
24.0     25.2	26.5	27.8	29.1	132.6

Deal!

Indy wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:51 pm

I just saw someone say that the only way all sides could reconcile and not lose face would be for Ayton to get more money from us than any other team could offer him, even if that is over 5 years instead of 4. If so, would everyone be happy with a:

5 year, 133M contract (probably with player option for year 5)

Code: Select all

Yr1      Yr2    Yr3     Yr4     Yr5     Tot
24.0     25.2	26.5	27.8	29.1	132.6

5/133 isn’t really “more” than 4/131. Barring death or career-ending injury, he’s going to be making a lot more than 2M in 2026-27.

Cap wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:10 pm

Indy wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:51 pm

I just saw someone say that the only way all sides could reconcile and not lose face would be for Ayton to get more money from us than any other team could offer him, even if that is over 5 years instead of 4. If so, would everyone be happy with a:

5 year, 133M contract (probably with player option for year 5)

Code: Select all

Yr1      Yr2    Yr3     Yr4     Yr5     Tot
24.0     25.2	26.5	27.8	29.1	132.6

5/133 isn’t really “more” than 4/131. Barring death or career-ending injury, he’s going to be making a lot more than 2M in 2026-27.

That is why you give him a player option for the 5th year.

Also, it is more about optics than actuals. Kind of like that deal the Knicks are giving Brunson. They are calling it "near max" instead of just saying 25M or whatever the starting point is. It makes the agent and player look good. Reporting that Ayton got more from the Suns than any other team could offer him makes it sound better.

Are we allowed to give him 5 years without it being the max? I know we couldn’t last offseason for the extension.

Indy wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:56 pm

Cap wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:10 pm

Indy wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:51 pm

I just saw someone say that the only way all sides could reconcile and not lose face would be for Ayton to get more money from us than any other team could offer him, even if that is over 5 years instead of 4. If so, would everyone be happy with a:

5 year, 133M contract (probably with player option for year 5)

Code: Select all

Yr1      Yr2    Yr3     Yr4     Yr5     Tot
24.0     25.2	26.5	27.8	29.1	132.6

5/133 isn’t really “more” than 4/131. Barring death or career-ending injury, he’s going to be making a lot more than 2M in 2026-27.

That is why you give him a player option for the 5th year.

Also, it is more about optics than actuals. Kind of like that deal the Knicks are giving Brunson. They are calling it "near max" instead of just saying 25M or whatever the starting point is. It makes the agent and player look good. Reporting that Ayton got more from the Suns than any other team could offer him makes it sound better.

5 years, $177 >>> 5 years, $133 million

No kind of optics are going to tell anybody that it's anything close when it's about $9 million a year less.

Look at it this way - if you went into you bosses office and asked for a three-year $300,000 contract because you felt you deserved it and they offered you a four year, $320,000 contract and told you the contract was worth more money, you'd think they were trying to screw you.

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:50 pm

Are we allowed to give him 5 years without it being the max? I know we couldn’t last offseason for the extension.

They can offer him whatever they want for up to 5 years (up to the maximum of course), or not offer him anything at all.

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:50 pm

Are we allowed to give him 5 years without it being the max? I know we couldn’t last offseason for the extension.

Ya, for some reason the rules change when it’s not an extension. John Collins did something similar last offseason, like a 5/125 deal

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:55 am

Indy wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:56 pm

Cap wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:10 pm

Indy wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:51 pm

I just saw someone say that the only way all sides could reconcile and not lose face would be for Ayton to get more money from us than any other team could offer him, even if that is over 5 years instead of 4. If so, would everyone be happy with a:

5 year, 133M contract (probably with player option for year 5)

Code: Select all

Yr1      Yr2    Yr3     Yr4     Yr5     Tot
24.0     25.2	26.5	27.8	29.1	132.6

5/133 isn’t really “more” than 4/131. Barring death or career-ending injury, he’s going to be making a lot more than 2M in 2026-27.

That is why you give him a player option for the 5th year.

Also, it is more about optics than actuals. Kind of like that deal the Knicks are giving Brunson. They are calling it "near max" instead of just saying 25M or whatever the starting point is. It makes the agent and player look good. Reporting that Ayton got more from the Suns than any other team could offer him makes it sound better.

5 years, $177 >>> 5 years, $133 million

No kind of optics are going to tell anybody that it's anything close when it's about $9 million a year less.

Look at it this way - if you went into you bosses office and asked for a three-year $300,000 contract because you felt you deserved it and they offered you a four year, $320,000 contract and told you the contract was worth more money, you'd think they were trying to screw you.

I think it becomes a little different when we are talking about 9 figures as opposed to 6 figures. 80,000 to 100,000 a year can impact someone’s lifestyle quite a bit. 25 million to 30 million isn’t really going to impact his lifestyle at all. It’s all about status/rep at that point.

I do think we’d have to go a little higher than just 2 million more though. If 4/131 is the highest he can get from another team…maybe you go 5/150…just start him at the max and don’t raise the salary at all. Then he can say he got the max(for 1 year) and got more than any other team could offer(over the life of the contract).

Some mention of Toronto maybe having interest as well from that article.

ShelC wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:52 am

Some mention of Toronto maybe having interest as well from that article.

The problem with other teams also believing Ayton isn't worth the max is the return on any trade. Siakim would make our team so much better, but there is no way we are getting him in return for DA.

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:55 am

Indy wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:56 pm

Cap wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:10 pm

Indy wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:51 pm

I just saw someone say that the only way all sides could reconcile and not lose face would be for Ayton to get more money from us than any other team could offer him, even if that is over 5 years instead of 4. If so, would everyone be happy with a:

5 year, 133M contract (probably with player option for year 5)

Code: Select all

Yr1      Yr2    Yr3     Yr4     Yr5     Tot
24.0     25.2	26.5	27.8	29.1	132.6

5/133 isn’t really “more” than 4/131. Barring death or career-ending injury, he’s going to be making a lot more than 2M in 2026-27.

That is why you give him a player option for the 5th year.

Also, it is more about optics than actuals. Kind of like that deal the Knicks are giving Brunson. They are calling it "near max" instead of just saying 25M or whatever the starting point is. It makes the agent and player look good. Reporting that Ayton got more from the Suns than any other team could offer him makes it sound better.

5 years, $177 >>> 5 years, $133 million

No kind of optics are going to tell anybody that it's anything close when it's about $9 million a year less.

Look at it this way - if you went into you bosses office and asked for a three-year $300,000 contract because you felt you deserved it and they offered you a four year, $320,000 contract and told you the contract was worth more money, you'd think they were trying to screw you.

I get what you are saying, but even just looking at the first 4 years, there are only 3 teams that could pay him that much... Spurs, Pacers, Magic. If they don't bite or spend even a few million on a player, they can't pay him either.

Split T wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 29, 2022 5:58 am

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 29, 2022 4:55 am

Indy wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:56 pm

Cap wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:10 pm

Indy wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:51 pm

I just saw someone say that the only way all sides could reconcile and not lose face would be for Ayton to get more money from us than any other team could offer him, even if that is over 5 years instead of 4. If so, would everyone be happy with a:

5 year, 133M contract (probably with player option for year 5)

Code: Select all

Yr1      Yr2    Yr3     Yr4     Yr5     Tot
24.0     25.2	26.5	27.8	29.1	132.6

5/133 isn’t really “more” than 4/131. Barring death or career-ending injury, he’s going to be making a lot more than 2M in 2026-27.

That is why you give him a player option for the 5th year.

Also, it is more about optics than actuals. Kind of like that deal the Knicks are giving Brunson. They are calling it "near max" instead of just saying 25M or whatever the starting point is. It makes the agent and player look good. Reporting that Ayton got more from the Suns than any other team could offer him makes it sound better.

5 years, $177 >>> 5 years, $133 million

No kind of optics are going to tell anybody that it's anything close when it's about $9 million a year less.

Look at it this way - if you went into you bosses office and asked for a three-year $300,000 contract because you felt you deserved it and they offered you a four year, $320,000 contract and told you the contract was worth more money, you'd think they were trying to screw you.

I think it becomes a little different when we are talking about 9 figures as opposed to 6 figures. 80,000 to 100,000 a year can impact someone’s lifestyle quite a bit. 25 million to 30 million isn’t really going to impact his lifestyle at all. It’s all about status/rep at that point.

I do think we’d have to go a little higher than just 2 million more though. If 4/131 is the highest he can get from another team…maybe you go 5/150…just start him at the max and don’t raise the salary at all. Then he can say he got the max(for 1 year) and got more than any other team could offer(over the life of the contract).

This

Indy wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:37 am

ShelC wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:52 am

Some mention of Toronto maybe having interest as well from that article.

The problem with other teams also believing Ayton isn't worth the max is the return on any trade. Siakim would make our team so much better, but there is no way we are getting him in return for DA.

I am curious how exactly would Siakam make our team so much better?

sunset rubdown wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:14 am

Indy wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:37 am

ShelC wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:52 am

Some mention of Toronto maybe having interest as well from that article.

The problem with other teams also believing Ayton isn't worth the max is the return on any trade. Siakim would make our team so much better, but there is no way we are getting him in return for DA.

I am curious how exactly would Siakam make our team so much better?

Because he can dribble, and create his own shot, and create shots for other people and get to the rim and gets to the line more than anyone on our team.

sunset rubdown wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 29, 2022 10:14 am

Indy wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:37 am

ShelC wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:52 am

Some mention of Toronto maybe having interest as well from that article.

The problem with other teams also believing Ayton isn't worth the max is the return on any trade. Siakim would make our team so much better, but there is no way we are getting him in return for DA.

I am curious how exactly would Siakam make our team so much better?

He’s a major upgrade on Crowder and is bigger and capable of playing small ball 5. He can create offense and run pick n roll. He’s a legitimate 3rd option on offense(really 2nd as CP3 will mostly be passing) and keeps teams from overloading the defense to Booker or Paul. Can always keep 2 creators on the court and he’s also a fantastic and versatile defender. Oh ya he’s also only 28. I mean he was an All-NBA player last year. He’d be huge for us and is honestly almost exactly what we need.

Wally_West wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 29, 2022 7:44 am

Normally, I would ignore anything from the bleacher report, but the Timeline podcast guys recently gave Jake Fischer props for his credibility. However, I am not convinced that these relationships are "untenable for an Ayton return." Where is the source for that? We've only heard of a minor spat between Ayton and Monty during their last game when everyone (players, coaches, staff and fans) were frustrated. Its not like it was a Butler/Spoelstra fist fight. This looks to me like that spat got circulated around the media so much that its now an "untenable relationship."

There was more reported about a dust up between Book and Ayton with Ayton going to Monty for support but Monty backed up what Book was saying. And from what people are saying, Monty and Ayton haven't spoken since Game 7.

I vaguely recall the Booker/Ayton thing reported, but it still sounds minor and probably not that unusual for players. Ayton not talking to anyone from the Suns (management/staff) sounds like a good negotiating tactic that should be expected.