Phx-Suns.Net

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:44 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:37 am

Ya that’s pretty good D…I’m ok writing this one off. He does need to go right at Gobert though…most of that stuff was him trying to shoot over Rudy. You can’t do that with Rudy. Ayton needs to go through him, but that’s not really his game.

Yeah I liked that little "sideways dribble" in the lane against Gobert while keeping him on his back; he should have kept going and perhaps could have gotten Gobert underneath the rim or gotten fouled taking the ball to the rim.

THANK YOU!

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:58 am

TOO wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:59 am

This is why I want him gone. Period.

Sure. Quote some twitter rando.

Not sure if you're being serious or not. He's one of the better Suns follows out there.

TOO wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 14, 2023 12:29 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:58 am

TOO wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:59 am

This is why I want him gone. Period.

Sure. Quote some twitter rando.

Not sure if you're being serious or not. He's one of the better Suns follows out there.

Keep reading, buddy.

I actually thought that was the best game Ayton played in a while. First time I saw him dribble and take it to the opposing center. Yeah, he missed his shots, but also was his first game back. Right now we’re not winning any games if the other team is making their 3’s. We don’t have any shooters on this team save for Damion Lee. Every other team in the league has 3 or 4. Give Ayton the ball, now’s the time to let him fail and learn. I’d rather see him miss after making a move than making those stupid fadeaways. I’d rather him learn to make rushed shots than make uncontested jumpers.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 14, 2023 4:11 pm

TOO wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 14, 2023 12:29 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:58 am

TOO wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:59 am

This is why I want him gone. Period.

Sure. Quote some twitter rando.

Not sure if you're being serious or not. He's one of the better Suns follows out there.

Keep reading, buddy.

Ya lost me.

TOO wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:03 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 14, 2023 4:11 pm

TOO wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 14, 2023 12:29 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:58 am

TOO wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:59 am

This is why I want him gone. Period.

Sure. Quote some twitter rando.

Not sure if you're being serious or not. He's one of the better Suns follows out there.

Keep reading, buddy.

Ya lost me.

Bone was joking. He aware that he is one of the Timeline’s host. this was a few posts after yours

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 14, 2023 12:03 pm

SunsRIt wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 14, 2023 12:02 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:58 am

TOO wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:59 am

This is why I want him gone. Period.

Sure. Quote some twitter rando.

Is he wrong?

It was a joke! I respect Sam Cooper's takes.

MightyMoog wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 14, 2023 5:50 pm

I actually thought that was the best game Ayton played in a while. First time I saw him dribble and take it to the opposing center. Yeah, he missed his shots, but also was his first game back. Right now we’re not winning any games if the other team is making their 3’s. We don’t have any shooters on this team save for Damion Lee. Every other team in the league has 3 or 4. Give Ayton the ball, now’s the time to let him fail and learn. I’d rather see him miss after making a move than making those stupid fadeaways. I’d rather him learn to make rushed shots than make uncontested jumpers.

It wasn’t the misses that bothered me as much as the lack of aggression, especially on defense. If he wasn’t able to go full speed, he should have just sat because he was hurting us out there.

His defense has not been talked about much on this board, but it’s been awful for nearly the entire season.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 14, 2023 12:11 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:44 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:37 am

Ya that’s pretty good D…I’m ok writing this one off. He does need to go right at Gobert though…most of that stuff was him trying to shoot over Rudy. You can’t do that with Rudy. Ayton needs to go through him, but that’s not really his game.

Yeah I liked that little "sideways dribble" in the lane against Gobert while keeping him on his back; he should have kept going and perhaps could have gotten Gobert underneath the rim or gotten fouled taking the ball to the rim.

THANK YOU!

It's interesting that Monty wasn't as critical of Ayton as we are being. He just said that he needed to keep getting to that hook shot, even if he missed some that he normally makes, rather than settling for the fadeaway mid-range jumpers over Gobert.

I saw this fascinating comment on Bright Side of the Sun regarding Mark Bryant's role, which I had never really considered deeply:

His only “attack” is getting to a spot where he can launch that righty jump hook and its to a fault. He has no counter when the defender takes that away or pushes him to a spot where he doesn’t have the positioning or angle that make that shot a gimme. It’s absurd tbh, and a big reason why I’ve said there’s zero chance that Mark Bryant is the best guy for the job. Mark Bryant was a complete hack on offense his entire nba career, a guy that lacked fluidity to his game. I surmise that many of the counters that Ayton needs to be developing to his Jump hook and the attack and go off the dribble moves that Ayton doesn’t display that have nothing to do with getting that jump hook, are moves that MB can’t even emulate or teach Ayton because they’re moves that he doesn’t even have in his own bag, and never did. There’s dozens of coaches that would get much more out of his development, so in that sense, maybe being elsewhere would be good for his career and development.

So I guess I would say that another positive in moving on from Monty would be bringing in a new big man assistant. Maybe Monty's been fine with Bryant's development of Ayton because he doesn't like to make his big men a focal point of the offense anyway. But I think both have stunted his growth. It's becoming pretty clear that either Monty and staff have to go, or Ayton has to go (and I think you all know which one I would choose ). It's insane to pay Ayton a max salary and keep Monty's system in place that doesn't maximize your max center.

It's insane to pay any C that isnt an MVP candidate a max contract.

I really can't believe you think everyone but Ayton is at fault for Ayton not getting better. LOL.

Edit: Actually, yes I can.

Because your max center is not a max worthy center.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 15, 2023 1:37 pm

Because your max center is not a max worthy center.

We all knew this. Ayton isn’t going to perform to his ability except when conditions are right: healthy team, winning culture that is firing on all pistons with Book and CP3 and Monty all in his ear.
It was the right move to not let him walk. However this is who he is.

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 15, 2023 12:27 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 14, 2023 12:11 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:44 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:37 am

Ya that’s pretty good D…I’m ok writing this one off. He does need to go right at Gobert though…most of that stuff was him trying to shoot over Rudy. You can’t do that with Rudy. Ayton needs to go through him, but that’s not really his game.

Yeah I liked that little "sideways dribble" in the lane against Gobert while keeping him on his back; he should have kept going and perhaps could have gotten Gobert underneath the rim or gotten fouled taking the ball to the rim.

THANK YOU!

It's interesting that Monty wasn't as critical of Ayton as we are being. He just said that he needed to keep getting to that hook shot, even if he missed some that he normally makes, rather than settling for the fadeaway mid-range jumpers over Gobert.

I saw this fascinating comment on Bright Side of the Sun regarding Mark Bryant's role, which I had never really considered deeply:

His only “attack” is getting to a spot where he can launch that righty jump hook and its to a fault. He has no counter when the defender takes that away or pushes him to a spot where he doesn’t have the positioning or angle that make that shot a gimme. It’s absurd tbh, and a big reason why I’ve said there’s zero chance that Mark Bryant is the best guy for the job. Mark Bryant was a complete hack on offense his entire nba career, a guy that lacked fluidity to his game. I surmise that many of the counters that Ayton needs to be developing to his Jump hook and the attack and go off the dribble moves that Ayton doesn’t display that have nothing to do with getting that jump hook, are moves that MB can’t even emulate or teach Ayton because they’re moves that he doesn’t even have in his own bag, and never did. There’s dozens of coaches that would get much more out of his development, so in that sense, maybe being elsewhere would be good for his career and development.

So I guess I would say that another positive in moving on from Monty would be bringing in a new big man assistant. Maybe Monty's been fine with Bryant's development of Ayton because he doesn't like to make his big men a focal point of the offense anyway. But I think both have stunted his growth. It's becoming pretty clear that either Monty and staff have to go, or Ayton has to go (and I think you all know which one I would choose ). It's insane to pay Ayton a max salary and keep Monty's system in place that doesn't maximize your max center.

Your version of Ayton exists in China. There is and never was an Ayton that is a leading scorer. You need a time machine back to the 90’s when someone like him could hang 20ppg on a nightly basis.

While I’m not sure it would do much, I’d be all for getting Ayton a coach that can teach him more.

Drewsprocket wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 15, 2023 1:47 pm

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 15, 2023 1:37 pm

Because your max center is not a max worthy center.

We all knew this. Ayton isn’t going to perform to his ability except when conditions are right: healthy team, winning culture that is firing on all pistons with Book and CP3 and Monty all in his ear.
It was the right move to not let him walk. However this is who he is.

Yikes. Should've let him walk.

Drewsprocket wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 15, 2023 1:52 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 15, 2023 12:27 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 14, 2023 12:11 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:44 am

Split T wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:37 am

Ya that’s pretty good D…I’m ok writing this one off. He does need to go right at Gobert though…most of that stuff was him trying to shoot over Rudy. You can’t do that with Rudy. Ayton needs to go through him, but that’s not really his game.

Yeah I liked that little "sideways dribble" in the lane against Gobert while keeping him on his back; he should have kept going and perhaps could have gotten Gobert underneath the rim or gotten fouled taking the ball to the rim.

THANK YOU!

It's interesting that Monty wasn't as critical of Ayton as we are being. He just said that he needed to keep getting to that hook shot, even if he missed some that he normally makes, rather than settling for the fadeaway mid-range jumpers over Gobert.

I saw this fascinating comment on Bright Side of the Sun regarding Mark Bryant's role, which I had never really considered deeply:

His only “attack” is getting to a spot where he can launch that righty jump hook and its to a fault. He has no counter when the defender takes that away or pushes him to a spot where he doesn’t have the positioning or angle that make that shot a gimme. It’s absurd tbh, and a big reason why I’ve said there’s zero chance that Mark Bryant is the best guy for the job. Mark Bryant was a complete hack on offense his entire nba career, a guy that lacked fluidity to his game. I surmise that many of the counters that Ayton needs to be developing to his Jump hook and the attack and go off the dribble moves that Ayton doesn’t display that have nothing to do with getting that jump hook, are moves that MB can’t even emulate or teach Ayton because they’re moves that he doesn’t even have in his own bag, and never did. There’s dozens of coaches that would get much more out of his development, so in that sense, maybe being elsewhere would be good for his career and development.

So I guess I would say that another positive in moving on from Monty would be bringing in a new big man assistant. Maybe Monty's been fine with Bryant's development of Ayton because he doesn't like to make his big men a focal point of the offense anyway. But I think both have stunted his growth. It's becoming pretty clear that either Monty and staff have to go, or Ayton has to go (and I think you all know which one I would choose ). It's insane to pay Ayton a max salary and keep Monty's system in place that doesn't maximize your max center.

Your version of Ayton exists in China. There is and never was an Ayton that is a leading scorer. You need a time machine back to the 90’s when someone like him could hang 20ppg on a nightly basis.

What?

DA in the 90’s would’ve gotten pounded every night like the little pussy he is. Imagine Charles Oakley, Antonio Davis, Shaq, etc. guarding him. He would have been absolutely worthless.

DA is too much of a soft puss to be great in the 90s, and too uncoordinated and awkward with the ball in his hands to be great now.

He has elite level touch but no balls and is not nimble. He sometimes cares.

He is what we call….a role player.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:20 pm

Drewsprocket wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 15, 2023 1:52 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 15, 2023 12:27 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 14, 2023 12:11 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:44 am

Yeah I liked that little "sideways dribble" in the lane against Gobert while keeping him on his back; he should have kept going and perhaps could have gotten Gobert underneath the rim or gotten fouled taking the ball to the rim.

THANK YOU!

It's interesting that Monty wasn't as critical of Ayton as we are being. He just said that he needed to keep getting to that hook shot, even if he missed some that he normally makes, rather than settling for the fadeaway mid-range jumpers over Gobert.

I saw this fascinating comment on Bright Side of the Sun regarding Mark Bryant's role, which I had never really considered deeply:

His only “attack” is getting to a spot where he can launch that righty jump hook and its to a fault. He has no counter when the defender takes that away or pushes him to a spot where he doesn’t have the positioning or angle that make that shot a gimme. It’s absurd tbh, and a big reason why I’ve said there’s zero chance that Mark Bryant is the best guy for the job. Mark Bryant was a complete hack on offense his entire nba career, a guy that lacked fluidity to his game. I surmise that many of the counters that Ayton needs to be developing to his Jump hook and the attack and go off the dribble moves that Ayton doesn’t display that have nothing to do with getting that jump hook, are moves that MB can’t even emulate or teach Ayton because they’re moves that he doesn’t even have in his own bag, and never did. There’s dozens of coaches that would get much more out of his development, so in that sense, maybe being elsewhere would be good for his career and development.

So I guess I would say that another positive in moving on from Monty would be bringing in a new big man assistant. Maybe Monty's been fine with Bryant's development of Ayton because he doesn't like to make his big men a focal point of the offense anyway. But I think both have stunted his growth. It's becoming pretty clear that either Monty and staff have to go, or Ayton has to go (and I think you all know which one I would choose ). It's insane to pay Ayton a max salary and keep Monty's system in place that doesn't maximize your max center.

Your version of Ayton exists in China. There is and never was an Ayton that is a leading scorer. You need a time machine back to the 90’s when someone like him could hang 20ppg on a nightly basis.

What?

DA in the 90’s would’ve gotten pounded every night like the little pussy he is. Imagine Charles Oakley, Antonio Davis, Shaq, etc. guarding him. He would have been absolutely worthless.

DA is too much of a soft puss to be great in the 90s, and too uncoordinated and awkward with the ball in his hands to be great now.

He has elite level touch but no balls and is not nimble. He sometimes cares.

He is what we call….a role player.

Yeah you’re probably not wrong. But I’d rather watch him in the 90s than in this era. Centers in the 90s had to be tougher. Now they want to act like they’re all skilled PFs when they’re clearly not.

Drewsprocket wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 15, 2023 1:52 pm

Your version of Ayton exists in China. There is and never was an Ayton that is a leading scorer. You need a time machine back to the 90’s when someone like him could hang 20ppg on a nightly basis.

Wait are you being serious? 20 ppg? He would be doing that without anything even changing in his play, his role, or the system if he was simply playing just 4 more minutes per game.

As for Ayton being a leading scorer or MVP candidate, those are not necessary in order to be worth a max contract in this league.

Another very strange argument I keep hearing is people who claim that Ayton is struggling as the #1 which proves that he can't be a #2. Makes no sense.

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 15, 2023 3:12 pm

As for Ayton being a leading scorer or MVP candidate, those are not necessary in order to be worth a max contract in this league.

Another very strange argument I keep hearing is people who claim that Ayton is struggling as the #1 which proves that he can't be a #2. Makes no sense.

You’re not wrong. He doesn’t need to be a leading scorer or mvp candidate. I just want him to be capable of looking like that type of player every now and then.

There’s 2 paths for him to be worth max money to me…the first is for him to consistently play like he did in the 2021 playoffs. Just fully buy into the roll man role on offense, attack the glass relentlessly, and be a great defensive anchor.

The other path is for him to develop into a featured offensive player that isn’t dependent on his teammates for production. He could still be primarily a post threat, but he needs to be able to get himself into the post by dribbling. Even if his numbers don’t change, as long as we can give him the ball and force the defense to defend it, it makes a difference.

I think he and Mikal are showing they are just 3rd options right now. I’ve been intrigued that Mikal has flashed some on ball productivity the last couple games, but I think his struggles the previous month show he can’t consistently do that. I’m pretty intrigued to see how everyone looks when everyone is healthy besides Book.

A CP3/Mikal/Lee/CamJ/Ayton lineup should force Mikal and CamJ to run the Book role, Lee is more the Mikal role and we’d need to feature more CP3/Ayton pnr and trying to find Ayton more.

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 15, 2023 3:09 pm

Drewsprocket wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 15, 2023 1:52 pm

Your version of Ayton exists in China. There is and never was an Ayton that is a leading scorer. You need a time machine back to the 90’s when someone like him could hang 20ppg on a nightly basis.

Wait are you being serious? 20 ppg? He would be doing that without anything even changing in his play, his role, or the system if he was simply playing just 4 more minutes per game.

He isn’t skilled enough to just give him the ball and just let him go to work. If Ayton has to take more than one dribble to get his shot he will either turn it over or miss terribly. He doesn’t get himself in position early in the offense where anyone can get him the ball. He scores off effort, focus, putting himself in the right spot for a quick hook / tip drill shot. Then he has sort of a Kurt Thomas middy. I’m not mad that he doesn’t avg more ppg. He is who he is. Fans for years pulled their hair out waiting for Marion to avg 25 + ppg. He never developed the handles to get his own shot or got himself to the line and yet he still bitched about not having more plays ran for him. You don’t get more plays ran for you if you’re not efficient enough with the ball.
It’s not just about the reps. It’s growth and skillset. Ayton is who he is.