Plumlee reminds me of me playing basketball now. I used to be pretty good, but there just comes a time when the body says you’re done.
haha so true
If not seriously injuried, from my experience you just need to find the appropriate level down to play. I'm 40 now and just got back to play in a team, lowest level of organized play in my town. Largest mixed bag you are going to find with a wide range of guys, from HS and college kids who never made it to federated level, other guys even in their 50s, ex-federated guys "in their prime" who don't want to travel to play anymore, etc. I know I won't be doing any reverse layups anymore but usually don't have to defend any speed demon either. I'm friends with the president of the team, I think I can get Plumlee a tryout.
Re: Game Day: Suns (19-19) @ Hawks (19-19), Tues 1/14/25
I wish KD would spend less time handling the ball and more time focusing on boxing out and securing rebounds. Even with a Richards addition (or whoever else), we’ll basically have just one guy out there fighting for rebounds. We lack size and willpower.
Bingo
This is the problem with 3 players who think they're a Big 3 on the court together. None of them want to do the dirty work or think it's beneath them. It leaves 1 center, and 1 other player to try to do it all.
Dunn cannot have 1 rebound in 22 minutes. It cannot happen. Oso needs to be on pace for double digit rebounds per 36 if he's going to play major minutes.
The first part about the Big 3 is on point. Can't have 3 stars/scorers watching and waiting for the outlet or leaking out, which is what they do. One center won't fix that. So they'll say the right things in the lockerroom after the game but won't make any attempt to change.
The second part about Dunn...it'd be nice for him to get more boards but he's taking on the toughest defensive assignment each night. He's chasing around perimeter players, can't crash or box out too. Also part of the reason why it'd be nice to have a bigger point guard who can hold his own on the perimeter.
Re: Game Day: Suns (19-19) @ Hawks (19-19), Tues 1/14/25
Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2025 5:29 am
by SunsRIt
What a crappy game. Trey Young is a foul-baiting little bitch and the Suns can't get a rebound. Their offense was great too: dribble, dribble, dribble, pass, dribble, chuck a 3 and miss, don't get the rebound. So innovative.
I can't believe the refs fall for Trey Young's antics play after play. If you jump and flail, whether your touched or not, its a foul. Nice league.
Re: Game Day: Suns (19-19) @ Hawks (19-19), Tues 1/14/25
It's a big problem. We don't have anyone managing the game or the flow of the game. The "game within the game" that we used to be so good with because of CP. Setting up for certain shots in certain situations at certain points in the game. Using clock when it's beneficial; feeling like a team is on the ropes and getting that backbreaking 3 or layup; working the hot hand; knowing when to push in transition. Instead - we're up 9 with 6 minutes in the 3rd - KD brings the ball up and takes a 3. We're down 3 with 5 minutes left in the 4th - Book brings the ball up and take a 3 with 20 seconds on the shotclock. Tie game - kick the ball ahead for a Royce 3 in transition. It's bad offense and wasted possessions. Obviously the rebounding and defense are the other major issue but there's no process on the offensive end either.
Re: Game Day: Suns (19-19) @ Hawks (19-19), Tues 1/14/25
It's a big problem. We don't have anyone managing the game or the flow of the game. The "game within the game" that we used to be so good with because of CP. Setting up for certain shots in certain situations at certain points in the game. Using clock when it's beneficial; feeling like a team is on the ropes and getting that backbreaking 3 or layup; working the hot hand; knowing when to push in transition. Instead - we're up 9 with 6 minutes in the 3rd - KD brings the ball up and takes a 3. We're down 3 with 5 minutes left in the 4th - Book brings the ball up and take a 3 with 20 seconds on the shotclock. Tie game - kick the ball ahead for a Royce 3 in transition. It's bad offense and wasted possessions. Obviously the rebounding and defense are the other major issue but there's no process on the offensive end either.
The problem is our current point guard isn't used as a point guard. He gives the ball to KD or Book and sets up in the corner like a shooting guard looking for a 3. Be a point guard not a shooting guard.
Re: Game Day: Suns (19-19) @ Hawks (19-19), Tues 1/14/25
Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2025 7:02 am
by ShelC
If Chris Paul were still on the team he wouldn't be giving the ball to Book and KD and jogging down to the corner.
Re: Game Day: Suns (19-19) @ Hawks (19-19), Tues 1/14/25
If Chris Paul were still on the team he wouldn't be giving the ball to Book and KD and jogging down to the corner.
He was starting to do just that before we traded him.
Re: Game Day: Suns (19-19) @ Hawks (19-19), Tues 1/14/25
Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2025 8:05 am
by Mori Chu
I find it interesting how many folks here seem to think that one player or one position is the problem with this team. I mean, sure, we need better centers; Plumlee isn't cut out for starting NBA center minutes. But he isn't the sole reason we lost this game. Almost nobody on the roster bothers to play good defense or box out or switch screens properly or do anything you need to do to stop the opposing team. You add one good center to this roster, sure it helps. But then the other 4 guys still won't be doing their jobs. One man does not a defense make. It'd have to be prime Bill Russell to make even a dent in this team's ass defense.
And that still doesn't solve our ass offense. Even with a better center, we'll still be trying to score all our points by watching KD and Book go 1-on-5 and throw the ball away when they get doubled.
What's that, you say? Also add Jimmy Butler? Okay, but you realize he'll take almost all of Dunn's minutes? Don't you like watching Dunn play and develop? You want to bury one of the few guys who plays hard and gives a shit, just so we can give a huge $110m contract to another "big 3" guy in his late 30s pouting his way off his current team? And probably lose our 2031 pick in the process? Great idea.
True peace comes from accepting that this team just doesn't have it, that it can't be reasonably fixed, that we need to blow it up and rebuild. None of these individual patches and band-aids are going to work. We lose to young athletic teams, we lose to teams that chuck 3s, we lose to big bruising teams, we lose to contenders, we lose to smart veteran teams. We lose. This team is bad in its bones. Blow it up.
Re: Game Day: Suns (19-19) @ Hawks (19-19), Tues 1/14/25
Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2025 8:24 am
by Carno
Here are my thoughts after watching this frustrating game:
The offense isn't the problem. Suns shot 51% overall and 37% from 3. That's good enough to win.
The defense isn't the problem. Hawks shot 44% overall. That's good enough to win.
Beal isn't the problem (okay maybe a little). The point of having a Big <=3 is that one of them can have an off game and still win.
Booker and KD both had solid games (offensively).
Turnovers were not the problem (this game).
Point guard was not the problem (see above).
Rebounding is a major freaking problem!
Plumlee was awful defensively and rebounding. However, I won't get too down on him since he is being forced to start since Nurk has been even worse
I'll give Oso a pass since he's a 2nd round pick that everyone knows isn't a good rebounder (He needs to improve though). Plus, as Book said, he's busy chasing guards on the perimeter after switches.
Suns badly need a rebounding center. This game was really bad, but it's been a problem all season. They are losing games solely due to rebounding.
Dunn was great defensively on Young, who seemed really bothered all game by Dunn. Bud didn't give Dunn enough playing time, imo. Dunn needed to return earlier in the 4th when the game shifted in the Hawks favor.
Oso continues to impress me with his defensive mobility and instincts. He is REALLY good covering guards on the perimeter. Multiple times Young went at him and couldn't beat him.
Re: Game Day: Suns (19-19) @ Hawks (19-19), Tues 1/14/25
It's a big problem. We don't have anyone managing the game or the flow of the game. The "game within the game" that we used to be so good with because of CP. Setting up for certain shots in certain situations at certain points in the game. Using clock when it's beneficial; feeling like a team is on the ropes and getting that backbreaking 3 or layup; working the hot hand; knowing when to push in transition. Instead - we're up 9 with 6 minutes in the 3rd - KD brings the ball up and takes a 3. We're down 3 with 5 minutes left in the 4th - Book brings the ball up and take a 3 with 20 seconds on the shotclock. Tie game - kick the ball ahead for a Royce 3 in transition. It's bad offense and wasted possessions. Obviously the rebounding and defense are the other major issue but there's no process on the offensive end either.
Give us a list of Point Guards who are capable of what you're describing. Then describe the hypothetical path that would've lead to the Suns acquiring those players. I get your overall point, but it's not easy. Every competent franchise is desperate for that type of player.
If Chris Paul were still on the team he wouldn't be giving the ball to Book and KD and jogging down to the corner.
If Chris Paul were on this team we'd have almost all of the same issues, but everyone (us, fans) would be complaining about wasting KD standing in the corner as one of he best scorers in the league. CP3 can no longer consistently self shot create which would lead to Booker and KD becoming frustrated with conceding control to him. Maybe we'd have a few more season wins in the best case, but we'd also live and die by CP3 mid range shots in which he barely jumps off the hardwood in the Spring.
Point Guard is still not the issue with this team.
Re: Game Day: Suns (19-19) @ Hawks (19-19), Tues 1/14/25
Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2025 8:58 am
by Split T
I don’t think anyone thinks it’s just one guy that’s the problem. It was just very noticeable that Plumlee got destroyed on the boards last night and that it had a major impact on that individual game. I don’t have a problem with Plumlee. He was a subpar starting center/good backup in his prime…he’s clearly not in his prime anymore…he’s fine if you expect 12-15 minutes against backup 5s…we are asking him to start and play 25ish minutes…that’s on the us(by us I mean the organization).
Some people think PG is the problem…I think that’s just a differing view on how you want the team to run. I think a lot of suns fans are used to an offense completely run by one guy…I’m not saying that’s wrong, but I just don’t feel the same way. We have played better with the ball in Bookers hands and out of Tyus Jones.
Even last year when we had need for a pg, I really just wanted a backup pg. Booker is a very good pg and I don’t think he gets enough credit for that. He’s got an assist rate over 30 and a turnover rate under 10. He’s pretty great as a playmaker.
I feel like the type of pg people want doesn’t really exist anymore. There’s like 3 guys in the Nash/CP3 mold left in the league.
So to sum up, I don’t think anyone thinks Nick Richards solves all our problems or even Richards and Butler…but it would just be nice to see a couple problems solved. We’re not blowing it up mid-season, so might as well put a watchable product on the court.
Re: Game Day: Suns (19-19) @ Hawks (19-19), Tues 1/14/25
Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2025 10:44 am
by Wally_West
ITS EVERY GAME WITH THIS CENTER SHIT. Not some outlier stuff. It’s Every game. Every game opposing centers see bbq chicken and look like prime Wilt Chamberlain. It’s not some problem, it a disease thats destroying this team.
Talk about team rebounding and everyone has to be better, Yes! That’s true, but we lost by 5 points and our centers lost the rebounding battle to their centers 29-10. Sometimes things are as simple winning the position battle or at least not losing it that bad! They got 20 extra shots in a 5pt loss??
Like come on, what are we talking about here?
There’s a reason why we only win when everyone plays good to great and mostly lose when anyone has a sub par game, it is because our centers are trash and we are playing 4 on 5 every game, so when someone isn’t playing above and beyond, it really really shows. We are really tiny outside a few players, so we can’t compensate for the trash center play. We play 3 guard line ups for huge chunks of the game, that’s really really bad when you have zeros at centers. We need a center upgrade(s) and need to get bigger in the worst way.
It’s makes what should be comfortable games into nail biters and nail biters into losses. That’s your season right there. Tell me that’s isn’t the truth. Tell me how your supposed to expect win games, let alone get blow out wins, when every game our centers let opposing centers become David Robinson and Patrick Ewing every fucking night??? And our answer to help our centers is throwing 6’4 guards out there. Get real, man. Nobody is winning like that.
Is Nick Richards making us a contender?? Hell no but just average center play would make a gigantic difference right now. If you don’t see that, that’s just because of your down bad. I don’t blame you but this is 2 seasons of trash center play. Nurk was good for most of last season but Eubanks was a disaster most nights and by the end of the season Nurk became unplayable and we saw what that meant in the playoffs.
TLDR: WE NEED A CENTER!!! And another rotation player who isn’t 6’4”.
Re: Game Day: Suns (19-19) @ Hawks (19-19), Tues 1/14/25
Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2025 10:49 am
by Split T
Preach WW
Re: Game Day: Suns (19-19) @ Hawks (19-19), Tues 1/14/25
I find it interesting how many folks here seem to think that one player or one position is the problem with this team. I mean, sure, we need better centers; Plumlee isn't cut out for starting NBA center minutes. But he isn't the sole reason we lost this game. Almost nobody on the roster bothers to play good defense or box out or switch screens properly or do anything you need to do to stop the opposing team. You add one good center to this roster, sure it helps. But then the other 4 guys still won't be doing their jobs. One man does not a defense make. It'd have to be prime Bill Russell to make even a dent in this team's ass defense.
And that still doesn't solve our ass offense. Even with a better center, we'll still be trying to score all our points by watching KD and Book go 1-on-5 and throw the ball away when they get doubled.
What's that, you say? Also add Jimmy Butler? Okay, but you realize he'll take almost all of Dunn's minutes? Don't you like watching Dunn play and develop? You want to bury one of the few guys who plays hard and gives a shit, just so we can give a huge $110m contract to another "big 3" guy in his late 30s pouting his way off his current team? And probably lose our 2031 pick in the process? Great idea.
True peace comes from accepting that this team just doesn't have it, that it can't be reasonably fixed, that we need to blow it up and rebuild. None of these individual patches and band-aids are going to work. We lose to young athletic teams, we lose to teams that chuck 3s, we lose to big bruising teams, we lose to contenders, we lose to smart veteran teams. We lose. This team is bad in its bones. Blow it up.
It's a disaster. The 20 offensive rebounds for 27 points last night is laughable. These guys are a joke.
Re: Game Day: Suns (19-19) @ Hawks (19-19), Tues 1/14/25
I don’t think anyone thinks it’s just one guy that’s the problem. It was just very noticeable that Plumlee got destroyed on the boards last night and that it had a major impact on that individual game. I don’t have a problem with Plumlee. He was a subpar starting center/good backup in his prime…he’s clearly not in his prime anymore…he’s fine if you expect 12-15 minutes against backup 5s…we are asking him to start and play 25ish minutes…that’s on the us(by us I mean the organization).
I feel like Plumlee has fallen apart before our eyes this season. He can no longer finish or rebound very well any more. His athleticism is leaving him. This is his swan song. I agree at this level, 12-15 minutes tops for him, against 2nd units.
Re: Game Day: Suns (19-19) @ Hawks (19-19), Tues 1/14/25
I don’t think anyone thinks it’s just one guy that’s the problem. It was just very noticeable that Plumlee got destroyed on the boards last night and that it had a major impact on that individual game. I don’t have a problem with Plumlee. He was a subpar starting center/good backup in his prime…he’s clearly not in his prime anymore…he’s fine if you expect 12-15 minutes against backup 5s…we are asking him to start and play 25ish minutes…that’s on the us(by us I mean the organization).
I feel like Plumlee has fallen apart before our eyes this season. He can no longer finish or rebound very well any more. His athleticism is leaving him. This is his swan song. I agree at this level, 12-15 minutes tops for him, against 2nd units.
Yeah. He gave out his latest legs during the first 1/3 of the season. Still better than Nurkic but time to put Oso 30mpg, Durant 10mpg and Plumlee 8mpg at center. Live with the rookie mistakes; at least energy is not going to be the thing missing. Obviously, try to find something in the trade market.
Re: Game Day: Suns (19-19) @ Hawks (19-19), Tues 1/14/25
Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2025 12:26 pm
by Superbone
You can bet Nurkic was sitting at home laughing his ass off at our rebounding woes.
Re: Game Day: Suns (19-19) @ Hawks (19-19), Tues 1/14/25
