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Len's J has always been smooth, he can acquire range, just up to him to do so.

Cap wrote:If we were healthy, Bleds-Booker-Tucker-Len-Chandler with AASE and Mirza/Jon/Keef (depending on match ups) as the first guys off the bench might be interesting.

Why? You can put cologne on your turd but it will eventually smell like shit again.

We need to blow this up. Starting with the coach, and the longer this season goes with us standing pat, the more I'm thinking the GM needs to go as well. The owner and Babby are obvious, nothing needs to be said.

It's not just about the lack of range on his jumper. It is a lack of any kind of offensive game on the block. If you pair him with Chandler who has no offensive game at all... well it just isn't going to go well.

carey wrote:It's not just about the lack of range on his jumper. It is a lack of any kind of offensive game on the block. If you pair him with Chandler who has no offensive game at all... well it just isn't going to go well.

We'll see. His J was pretty good last night: Don't need a ton of range when you're being guarded by a guy 4 inches shorter - just keep taking 12 footers. The last play was drawn up for an Alex J... I think the coaching staff has seen enough to know that he can hit the long ball as well. This is his chance.

carey wrote:You can't get away with pairing Len & Chandler for long stretches. We already have some serious offensive issues right now. Starting Goodwin-Booker-Tucker-Len-Chandler or even just playing them major mjnutes means your only major scoring threat is a 19-year-old.

I'm somewhat encouraged that Hornacek is trying some different lineups (although injuries have forced his hand). The midget-guard small ball strategy obviously is an abject failure. Let's see what sort of game Archie and Len have as they play different positions.

This is not a playoff team. So experiment and give the young guys as much time as possible to see how they develop.

That was a fun one, for the most part! Glad Archie has been stepping up lately. But yeah, his quote about the last play is a little weird. Maybe he was joking. Maybe he wasn't. Heck of a shot regardless.

Len as a PF has been nice. It's not like he was playing against a scrub either. Horford is pretty good. Not saying a front court of Chandler and Len is going to win any future playoff games but it's a breath of fresh air in a dismal season.

I think you just play Chandler 40 mpg. Sounds crazy but he sems to take awhile to get going but once he does he's reminiscent of his former self. Play him til he breaks. Get your money's worth.

djy2j wrote:That was a fun one, for the most part! Glad Archie has been stepping up lately. But yeah, his quote about the last play is a little weird. Maybe he was joking. Maybe he wasn't. Heck of a shot regardless.

Len as a PF has been nice. It's not like he was playing against a scrub either. Horford is pretty good. Not saying a front court of Chandler and Len is going to win any future playoff games but it's a breath of fresh air in a dismal season.

I think you just play Chandler 40 mpg. Sounds crazy but he sems to take awhile to get going but once he does he's reminiscent of his former self. Play him til he breaks. Get your money's worth.

We get a good run like that from Chandler and someone might give us something for him before the deadline. I don't mind keeping him, but I would not mind getting a building piece for him.

We have to remember not to get carried away by a small sample size. Chandler and Len have played well together in a few games, but (a) that's a small sample, and (b) it only looks good relative to our completely shit performance the rest of the season. It's not at all clear that it is a strategy that would work against a variety of other teams and lineups. I think it's doomed to failure because the two of them are not offensively skilled enough to carry 2/5 of an NBA offense. Len would need a bunch more post moves and/or 3-point range to really carry his end of it. He'd basically have to be Chris Bosh. And he isn't and won't be.

Mori Chu wrote:We have to remember not to get carried away by a small sample size. Chandler and Len have played well together in a few games, but (a) that's a small sample, and (b) it only looks good relative to our completely shit performance the rest of the season. It's not at all clear that it is a strategy that would work against a variety of other teams and lineups. I think it's doomed to failure because the two of them are not offensively skilled enough to carry 2/5 of an NBA offense. Len would need a bunch more post moves and/or 3-point range to really carry his end of it. He'd basically have to be Chris Bosh. And he isn't and won't be.

I don't think he needs to be Chris Bosh to be effective as a stretch 4. I am not advocating it, but I have noticed that I feel much more confident with him shooting +12 feet than I do with him <12 feet. You can tell he is a gymnast first, and a post basketball player 2nd. I am sure the info is out there, but he seems like a guy that grew 11 inches in 1 year so he became a center. EJ says it all the time, but he plays like he is average height when he is actually bigger than 90%-95% of the guys on the court. I know he is young, but I don't get the feeling he is going to learn that without focused effort from him, the coaches, and the rest of the team during games/practices. I doubt we are going to spend those kind of resources on it when we literally have to figure out every single position on this team (sure Booker looks like a lock for a SG, but you never know).

Play the young guys and see where their skills tend. With Len, he looks more like James Edwards or Rik Smits in style than a classic low-post banger.

I'm tired of this franchise trying to stick square pegs into round holes, i.e., trying to make players into something they are not and designing a system around these faulty assumptions.

For example, at best, Bledsoe and Knight are combo guards with stronger tendencies to off guards. Tucker's best role is a small-ball 4 and not a swing forward.

RE the Chandler/Len lineup, I think it would be a lot more effective offensively with TJ instead of PJ.

Shabazz wrote:RE the Chandler/Len lineup, I think it would be a lot more effective offensively with TJ instead of PJ.

Well, yeah...

Indy wrote:

Mori Chu wrote:We have to remember not to get carried away by a small sample size. Chandler and Len have played well together in a few games, but (a) that's a small sample, and (b) it only looks good relative to our completely shit performance the rest of the season. It's not at all clear that it is a strategy that would work against a variety of other teams and lineups. I think it's doomed to failure because the two of them are not offensively skilled enough to carry 2/5 of an NBA offense. Len would need a bunch more post moves and/or 3-point range to really carry his end of it. He'd basically have to be Chris Bosh. And he isn't and won't be.

I don't think he needs to be Chris Bosh to be effective as a stretch 4. I am not advocating it, but I have noticed that I feel much more confident with him shooting +12 feet than I do with him <12 feet. You can tell he is a gymnast first, and a post basketball player 2nd. I am sure the info is out there, but he seems like a guy that grew 11 inches in 1 year so he became a center. EJ says it all the time, but he plays like he is average height when he is actually bigger than 90%-95% of the guys on the court.

Word. Playing like a guy of average height would mean that he should (1) have a solid jump shot, and (2) be able to drive if they take away the J. Recently, we've seen flashes of both. Against the Hawks, I also saw that - wow, Alex can defend at least some 4s. And his height really helps the team's defense when he plays alongside a 5.

LazarusLong wrote:Play the young guys and see where their skills tend. With Len, he looks more like James Edwards or Rik Smits in style than a classic low-post banger.

Agreed. The way I see it, if Alex can keep his FG% around 50% with that short jumper, then the benefits he brings to us defensively will dramatically outweigh any negatives from him on offense.

Shabazz wrote:RE the Chandler/Len lineup, I think it would be a lot more effective offensively with TJ instead of PJ.

I was just thinking the same thing. Tyson and Alex together can really board it, and don't necessarily need PJ's help there. When one or the other of them is taking a breather, however, PJ's tenacity would be of additional value. You'd want PJ coming off the bench with a scorer - and maybe Knight works better than Archie there.

Archie/Knight
Booker/[Weems]
Warren/PJ
Alex/Teletovic
Chandler/Leuer

And if you think I'm joking about Archie starting, you're wrong. With Archie as PG, we'll see the ball in TJ and Alex's hands more. Alex with pretty high assist numbers the last couple games. I bet TJ would thrive if he had more freedom on offense.

Shabazz wrote:Regarding ANY lineup, I think it would be a lot more effective offensively with TJ instead of PJ.

There you go.

Indy wrote:

Shabazz wrote:Regarding ANY lineup, I think it would be a lot more effective offensively with TJ instead of PJ.

There you go.

Yet the opposite defensively.

Superbone wrote:

Indy wrote:

Shabazz wrote:Regarding ANY lineup, I think it would be a lot more effective offensively with TJ instead of PJ.

There you go.

Yet the opposite defensively.

It is not as cut and dry on that end. TJ has a lot to learn about it (and a lot more to do on his end), but PJ is only effective for short bursts, and depending on who he is guarding. I think we all agree his best role is a back-up 4 in short stretches. So it does depend on the line-up, and how many minutes he is out there.

OE32 wrote:

Shabazz wrote:RE the Chandler/Len lineup, I think it would be a lot more effective offensively with TJ instead of PJ.

I was just thinking the same thing. Tyson and Alex together can really board it, and don't necessarily need PJ's help there. When one or the other of them is taking a breather, however, PJ's tenacity would be of additional value. You'd want PJ coming off the bench with a scorer - and maybe Knight works better than Archie there.

Archie/Knight
Booker/[Weems]
Warren/PJ
Alex/Teletovic
Chandler/Leuer

And if you think I'm joking about Archie starting, you're wrong. With Archie as PG, we'll see the ball in TJ and Alex's hands more. Alex with pretty high assist numbers the last couple games. I bet TJ would thrive if he had more freedom on offense.

Yeah. I didn't mean it as some sort of epiphany. I know TJ is better offensively, I just meant we're better able to mitigate the defensive/rebounding fall-off with Len and Chandler in there.

Offensively, you need another creator in there with Chandler/Len, wheras if it was Mirza or Leuer with one of the bigs, you can better balance having PJ in there. I think any lineup should have at least 3 players who aren't completely reliant on teammates spoon-feeding them to score.

Shabazz wrote:

OE32 wrote:

Shabazz wrote:RE the Chandler/Len lineup, I think it would be a lot more effective offensively with TJ instead of PJ.

I was just thinking the same thing. Tyson and Alex together can really board it, and don't necessarily need PJ's help there. When one or the other of them is taking a breather, however, PJ's tenacity would be of additional value. You'd want PJ coming off the bench with a scorer - and maybe Knight works better than Archie there.

Archie/Knight
Booker/[Weems]
Warren/PJ
Alex/Teletovic
Chandler/Leuer

And if you think I'm joking about Archie starting, you're wrong. With Archie as PG, we'll see the ball in TJ and Alex's hands more. Alex with pretty high assist numbers the last couple games. I bet TJ would thrive if he had more freedom on offense.

Yeah. I didn't mean it as some sort of epiphany. I know TJ is better offensively, I just meant we're better able to mitigate the defensive/rebounding fall-off with Len and Chandler in there.

Offensively, you need another creator in there with Chandler/Len, wheras if it was Mirza or Leuer with one of the bigs, you can better balance having PJ in there. I think any lineup should have at least 3 players who aren't completely reliant on teammates spoon-feeding them to score.

Totally. Hoping to see this by the end of the season!

BTW - unless a killer deal is available, I'd prefer to keep both Chandler and Tucker, moving Tucker to the bench in the near future. I know everyone's (justifiably) excited about Booker, but personally, I'm at least and probably even more excited about TJ and Alex. I want these guys to get a chance.

OE32 wrote:

Shabazz wrote:

OE32 wrote:

Shabazz wrote:RE the Chandler/Len lineup, I think it would be a lot more effective offensively with TJ instead of PJ.

I was just thinking the same thing. Tyson and Alex together can really board it, and don't necessarily need PJ's help there. When one or the other of them is taking a breather, however, PJ's tenacity would be of additional value. You'd want PJ coming off the bench with a scorer - and maybe Knight works better than Archie there.

Archie/Knight
Booker/[Weems]
Warren/PJ
Alex/Teletovic
Chandler/Leuer

And if you think I'm joking about Archie starting, you're wrong. With Archie as PG, we'll see the ball in TJ and Alex's hands more. Alex with pretty high assist numbers the last couple games. I bet TJ would thrive if he had more freedom on offense.

Yeah. I didn't mean it as some sort of epiphany. I know TJ is better offensively, I just meant we're better able to mitigate the defensive/rebounding fall-off with Len and Chandler in there.

Offensively, you need another creator in there with Chandler/Len, wheras if it was Mirza or Leuer with one of the bigs, you can better balance having PJ in there. I think any lineup should have at least 3 players who aren't completely reliant on teammates spoon-feeding them to score.

Totally. Hoping to see this by the end of the season!

BTW - unless a killer deal is available, I'd prefer to keep both Chandler and Tucker, moving Tucker to the bench in the near future. I know everyone's (justifiably) excited about Booker, but personally, I'm at least and probably even more excited about TJ and Alex. I want these guys to get a chance.

So I have to ask: What about TJ and Alex is more exciting than Booker so far?

To be honest I don't see it either. Booker is showing flashes of an elite skill as a shooter, whereas TJ and Len are not showing signs of trascending role player status at the moment.