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pickle wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 28, 2023 4:39 am

I think I disagree with your assessment. Putting aside the whole wings are in vogue thing, Cam is the right kind of tweener who possesses one elite skill that opposing defenders must respect while PJ is solid across the board but not excellent in anything. Put in 2k terms, both of them may be 79-81 rated players but Cam is maybe 93 in threes and 70 in rebounds while PJ is 76 in both, which means Cam has a more functional ~80 rating because he has greater on court gravity and complements any star while PJ isn’t quite a good enough shooter to play 3 or maybe even the 4 consistently while being too small to defend bigger 4s and most 5s.

This is a good assessment. Cam's elite shotmaking distinguishes him but I still worry about his team's ceiling with him as a fulltime 4. It was something that concerned me when talking about his future with us. I think PJ can play the 4 fulltime next to the right kind of 5, but is overmatched as a 5 most of the time and limits a team when forced to play there. Overall I'd go with Cam I think, but PJ at 16/year is a very good deal if you have a good team where he's playing the 4.

A question for me is: If we didn't have KD, would I rather have Cam at $22m/year on this team playing the 4 or PJ at $16m/year playing the 4?

That’s a good question. If it’s just a matter of saving Ishbia money, then give me Cam, but if we get another player at 6 million a year to make up the difference, give me PJ. PJ is a real 4, he provides some rim protection and while not a great rebounder, he’s historically been better than Cam(though not last year, he was unusually bad last year).

Cam is a much better shooter. Teams are willing to pay a premium for shooting.

As for future development, I don't think Cam has reached his peak at all. That's just absurd. He's only been in the league for 4 years, and is just starting to get more minutes and a bigger role. He wasn't even a starter until last season.

The only question mark is health, but I believe his contract is not fully guaranteed.

It’s basically fully guaranteed. 90 million is guaranteed and it includes 18 million in incentives. Roughly 4 is likely to be reached and there’s about 14 million of unlikely to be reached.

CamJ is a much better shooter and he may have some growth, but PJ is more likely to have growth. He’s younger and part of the same draft class.

Not sure if any track n field fans on the forum but I watch a bunch
This was said by the new sprint phenom and NBA twitter was not pleased lol

Kind of a silly thing to complain about, but he's not wrong. As far as I know, the NBA doesn't tout its championship as "World Championship." They say, "NBA championship." Now a quick look at some teams that have won NBA championships, do show some of these teams hang banners in their arenas that say, "World Champions," like the Lakers and the Celtics (the Warrior banners say "NBA Champions"). That says more about the arrogance of those teams than anything else.

When all the best players in the world play in the same league, then it's the World Championship, imo. If any of the other leagues were in the same stratosphere as the NBA, then maybe they would have a tournament that the NBA Champ played the best of some other league for the mythical "World Championship".

It was more difficult in the past to have this happen, but at least the rules are much closer than they used to be. Things like figuring out if the goal tending rules would apply or not and then the collective bargaining agreement would have to be ironed out.

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 28, 2023 10:49 am

Cam is a much better shooter. Teams are willing to pay a premium for shooting.

As for future development, I don't think Cam has reached his peak at all. That's just absurd. He's only been in the league for 4 years, and is just starting to get more minutes and a bigger role. He wasn't even a starter until last season.

The only question mark is health, but I believe his contract is not fully guaranteed.

According to research, players reach their peak around 27 or 28. A larger sample reveals that most elite NBA players reach their peak between 27 and 28.

Both an All-Star and an MVP are typically between the ages of 26.5 and 27.9.

https://professionalshq.com/what-age-do ... and%2027.9.

I did say "basically" peaked, which implied stuff like opportunities to play more minutes and improve his efficiency. I'm interested to hear what skill you think is left on the table for him at 27.

In2ition wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 28, 2023 1:14 pm

When all the best players in the world play in the same league, then it's the World Championship, imo. If any of the other leagues were in the same stratosphere as the NBA, then maybe they would have a tournament that the NBA Champ played the best of some other league for the mythical "World Championship".

It was more difficult in the past to have this happen, but at least the rules are much closer than they used to be. Things like figuring out if the goal tending rules would apply or not and then the collective bargaining agreement would have to be ironed out.

Are we going to rename the World Series now?

It’s stupid semantics. Do the Nuggets really need to go play Partizan Belgrade or Olympiacos to show they’re the best team in the world?

The NBA Finals did not exist until 1986. Before that, the final round was called the NBA World Championship Series. So I think the whole "world champions" thing is just kind of a leftover effect of that. The official championship hats still said "World Champions" through 1995.

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 28, 2023 2:19 pm

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 28, 2023 10:49 am

Cam is a much better shooter. Teams are willing to pay a premium for shooting.

As for future development, I don't think Cam has reached his peak at all. That's just absurd. He's only been in the league for 4 years, and is just starting to get more minutes and a bigger role. He wasn't even a starter until last season.

The only question mark is health, but I believe his contract is not fully guaranteed.

According to research, players reach their peak around 27 or 28. A larger sample reveals that most elite NBA players reach their peak between 27 and 28.

Both an All-Star and an MVP are typically between the ages of 26.5 and 27.9.

https://professionalshq.com/what-age-do ... and%2027.9.

I did say "basically" peaked, which implied stuff like opportunities to play more minutes and improve his efficiency. I'm interested to hear what skill you think is left on the table for him at 27.

He came in at an older age than almost all rookies, so I wouldn't use age as a comparison. I think almost everything is left on the table. If his mom has her way, his rebounding will still improve.

Age still matters for physical ability, regardless of when he came into the nba

I’d love to see any team in the world challenge the NBA champions. They wouldn’t stand a chance. Yes, they are the best team in the world no matter what you call them.

Cam was a bit of a weird case because even at 23, he was still physically underdeveloped. When you're drafting older college players, you'd expect them to be at least more physically mature than the 18-19 year olds but Cam's just a skinny guy with a narrow frame. He's gotten bigger since coming into the league but he's probably done filling out. In terms of skillset, he can still work on his game and get incrementally better at things like creating off the dribble, but I think it's safe to say he kind of it what is. The jump from 23-27 years old is just going to be smaller than the jump from 19-23.

His age was a topic of discussion when he was drafted because we said we'd be looking at a first extension while he's basically in his prime. So here it is, the Nets aren't getting him on a first extension at 22 or 23 with some potential upside, but instead at 27. Kind of sucks for the player because it's one less contract, but the Nets at least have a proven, mostly finished product who they know is contributor.

I think the age thing when you're drafting is a bit passe at this point. Especially in this day and age when players move around so much. So unless it's a franchise type player you're expecting to get. What does it really matter if you're getting a player from ages 23-28 or 20-25? Maybe better to get the the older player since hes more mature and he'll be gone before he's out of his prime anyway.

Execs are always looking at potential and upside and are afraid of passing on someone like the next Giannis. If you're a bad team in the lotto and there's a 19 year old with upside, you take a shot. I think better teams picking later are finally looking at seasoned college players with definable skills who can contribute either on the court or help set the culture. Older players from winning programs know how to work- how to practice, how to win, have mental/physical/emotional stamina to make it through a season. They've been coached up, so you're not really starting from scratch. But it all depends on the player. Would you draft a 22 year old Cody Kispert over an 18 year old Devin Booker?

Superbone wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 28, 2023 3:25 pm

I’d love to see any team in the world challenge the NBA champions. They wouldn’t stand a chance. Yes, they are the best team in the world no matter what you call them.

I think most on the planet view the NBA as the top of the basketball heap. The US invented basketball and introduced it to the world. The rest of the world gradually fell in love with the game and over the years the rest of the world has done a lot of catching up to the US. Take away all the non US born players in the NBA 30 years ago and nobody would notice. Take away all the foreign born players today and a huge chunk of the NBA would be missing.

I do think it is arrogant for Americans to call it the World Championship even though it kind of is. The closest thing to a real world championship is the Olympics and the US has a pretty good track record there.

They are the most successful team in international competition, winning medals in all nineteen Olympic tournaments it has entered, including sixteen golds. In the professional era, the team won the Olympic gold medal in 1992, 1996, 2000, 2008, 2012, 2016, and 2020.

Nodack wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 28, 2023 5:35 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 28, 2023 3:25 pm

I’d love to see any team in the world challenge the NBA champions. They wouldn’t stand a chance. Yes, they are the best team in the world no matter what you call them.

I think most on the planet view the NBA as the top of the basketball heap. The US invented basketball and introduced it to the world. The rest of the world gradually fell in love with the game and over the years the rest of the world has done a lot of catching up to the US. Take away all the non US born players in the NBA 30 years ago and nobody would notice. Take away all the foreign born players today and a huge chunk of the NBA would be missing.

I do think it is arrogant for Americans to call it the World Championship even though it kind of is. The closest thing to a real world championship is the Olympics and the US has a pretty good track record there.

They are the most successful team in international competition, winning medals in all nineteen Olympic tournaments it has entered, including sixteen golds. In the professional era, the team won the Olympic gold medal in 1992, 1996, 2000, 2008, 2012, 2016, and 2020.

Well, actually a Canadian invented it but America developed it from there. But I get what you’re saying. Yes, the NBA is international and that’s why the teams are the cream of the crop. They are most of the best players in the world, not just the US.