Phx-Suns.Net

Split T wrote:It boggles my mind how much leash we've given Bender to suck compared to Chriss.

They suck in different ways. Chriss, frankly, has a bad attitude. He makes stupid plays, then complains to refs or hangs his head instead of hustling back on D after a turnover. By contrast, the only thing that really sucks about Bender is his shooting. If his shot were falling he'd already be a good role player with lots of upward potential.

I don't think Bender has looked good either. At least not for a full game.

carey wrote:We're going to have to wind up moving Warren aren't we? Possibly in a Knight dump before the season. Ugh.

I think we should start TJ Warren at PF with Josh Jackson at the 3, and Chandler or Len at the 5. That's a small frontcourt, but it's our most talented lineup. Something like:

Starters: Bledsoe/Booker/Jackson/Warren/Len
Bench: Ulis/Reed/Chriss/Bender/Williams
Depth,won't play much: Dudley/Jones Jr/Price?

The team probably won't do that; they'll most likely use Jackson and Warren as our SF rotation. But I don't think either Chriss or Bender is a starter-caliber player right now.

Cap wrote:

Split T wrote:It boggles my mind how much leash we've given Bender to suck compared to Chriss.

They suck in different ways. Chriss, frankly, has a bad attitude. He makes stupid plays, then complains to refs or hangs his head instead of hustling back on D after a turnover. By contrast, the only thing that really sucks about Bender is his shooting. If his shot were falling he'd already be a good role player with lots of upward potential.

I won't argue with that, but Bender hasn't actually provided anything positive either. He might not suck at things, but he just doesn't do anything.

ShelC wrote:With Chriss, I'm trying to find anything he does right. He can't play in the post, hasn't been great finishing in traffic, doesn't rebound, hasn't been blocking shots, has missed his 3pt attempts. I want him to succeed and give us something at the PF spot, but he hasn't shown much of anything these past 3 games.

Bender was the young player in the L last year and barely played but you see flashes on a basketball player there. The last few games he's shown more ability and has knocked down his shots nicely. With him, I think it's about confidence and picking his spots more than actual ability.

I'd recommend looking at what he did in actual games as opposed to summer league. He was blocking shots and hitting 3's last season.

He should be dominating SL.

For the record, in almost exactly the same number of minutes this summer league, Chriss averages more points, rebounds, steals, and blocks than Bender while shooting essentially the same. 18/50 for Bender, 18/51 for Chriss.

Long story short, they've both been pretty underwhelming

If Bender can improve and make his release more consistent, he will start to become a better and more consistent shooter. I can tell every time he releases if he's going to miss, he will have a lower release point and his shot becomes too flat. I thought he had a good game in the first half, and it was something to build on. If he could play like that for a full game and then string together full games, he would be fantastic. You see the talent, the iq, and the skills he possesses. Just want to see it all come together and stay together.

ShelC wrote:He should be dominating SL.

Why? Should Bender be dominating too? Maybe you're looking at Chriss wrong. He's not a creator, he's a finisher. He needs someone to get him the ball. My guess is he'd look a lot better playing with a PG like Ulis. Good thing he'll have one when the real games start.

Indy wrote:

Superbone wrote:

Indy wrote:Effing ESPN has the Suns listed on their ESPN2 channel, but it wasn;t there. So my recording didn't work. f***.

Indy, Indy, Indy...

Time: 5:00 pm AZ (5:00 pm PT/8:00 pm ET)
Place: Cox Pavilion, Las Vegas, NV
TV: NBATV

I wouldn't do you wrong.

Can you control my DirecTV auto-recording for all things Suns? I would absolutely love that. Or can someone write some code that takes all game-day threads and uses the first post to program a recording in our DVRs?

I had some work to do in my basement last night, and came up about 15 minutes after the game started so I can fast-forward through the ridiculousness that is the witty banter between the broadcasters... Oops.

Yeah, unfortunately, the automatic stuff doesn't always work on DTV. You've got to babysit it. Make sure you record NBATV today!

Split T wrote:

ShelC wrote:He should be dominating SL.

Why? Should Bender be dominating too? Maybe you're looking at Chriss wrong. He's not a creator, he's a finisher. He needs someone to get him the ball. My guess is he'd look a lot better playing with a PG like Ulis. Good thing he'll have one when the real games start.

Bender barely played last year so he gets a pass. But he's still shown more than Chriss IMO. If Chriss is just a finisher, fine. But that's still not enough. He needs to rebound, get better in traffic, get better defensively. I can find 100 guys who can finish with a dunk.

ShelC wrote:

Split T wrote:

ShelC wrote:He should be dominating SL.

Why? Should Bender be dominating too? Maybe you're looking at Chriss wrong. He's not a creator, he's a finisher. He needs someone to get him the ball. My guess is he'd look a lot better playing with a PG like Ulis. Good thing he'll have one when the real games start.

Bender barely played last year so he gets a pass. But he's still shown more than Chriss IMO. If Chriss is just a finisher, fine. But that's still not enough. He needs to rebound, get better in traffic, get better defensively. I can find 100 guys who can finish with a dunk.

What exactly has he shown more than Chriss? Chriss has out rebounded Bender. He's out scored Bender. They've shot the same percentage. Is it the 1 more assist? This is my point, this board is filled with criticisms of Chriss, admittedly they are mostly fair, but Bender gets a pass? Neither has played well, I think we just like the idea of Bender more.

You can find 100 guys that can dunk and I can find 100 that shot 28% from 3.

Have you guys seen John Collins this summer?

In2ition wrote:Have you guys seen John Collins this summer?

Yes. I tried to tell you guys. Best pick & roll finisher in the draft.

Split T wrote:

carey wrote:

Split T wrote:It almost feels like y'all want Chriss to fail, so you'll be right. I was one of just a few posters who liked the pick at the time. A few people came around when he played better than expected, but a few underwhelming summer league games and we're back to him being terrible? It boggles my mind how much leash we've given Bender to suck compared to Chriss.

I'm a Bender guy but I'll say this for the 100th time. I don't want anyone we pick to fail or to suck or to play bad basketball. I hope everyone we draft turns into LeBron f*** James. Whether I'm right or not never matters to me.

I wasn't picking on any poster in particular. It just feels like we are so quick to tear apart Chriss for the things he does wrong but I don't see that with Bender. First impressions are hard to break. A lot of people on this board didn't like Chriss when we drafted him and maybe that makes it easier for them to see his faults. As one of the few team Chriss over team Bender guys, it's just interesting to watch.

For the record, I'm not anti Bender, I think he could be a good player but he didn't show anything last year. We talk about his great bbiq, but all that lead to was a bunch of missed 3's last year.

Bender isn't on the court to do anything wrong. We all talk about his nonexistant shot and his timidness. We also talk about his good play on the defensive. And how he doesn't seem to be able to get rebounds in traffic. But he didn't get much chance to show his strengths or weaknesses last season, so there isn't much to say about him. Overall, Bender's summer has been better than his rookie season. As for Chriss, we dump on him because he is having a bad summer league and seems to have a bad attitude. Chriss was a starter last year, and did progress as the season went on. An NBA starter should be better than this in the summer league.

In2ition wrote:If Bender can improve and make his release more consistent, he will start to become a better and more consistent shooter. I can tell every time he releases if he's going to miss, he will have a lower release point and his shot becomes too flat.

Yep. I hope he can get consistent with that release through practice.

carey wrote:

In2ition wrote:Have you guys seen John Collins this summer?

Yes. I tried to tell you guys. Best pick & roll finisher in the draft.

I hate to say this, but I'd rather have Collins than Chriss. Collins brings everything Chriss does and more, plus does it better and with a better attitude.

Split T wrote:

ShelC wrote:

Split T wrote:

ShelC wrote:He should be dominating SL.

Why? Should Bender be dominating too? Maybe you're looking at Chriss wrong. He's not a creator, he's a finisher. He needs someone to get him the ball. My guess is he'd look a lot better playing with a PG like Ulis. Good thing he'll have one when the real games start.

Bender barely played last year so he gets a pass. But he's still shown more than Chriss IMO. If Chriss is just a finisher, fine. But that's still not enough. He needs to rebound, get better in traffic, get better defensively. I can find 100 guys who can finish with a dunk.

What exactly has he shown more than Chriss? Chriss has out rebounded Bender. He's out scored Bender. They've shot the same percentage. Is it the 1 more assist? This is my point, this board is filled with criticisms of Chriss, admittedly they are mostly fair, but Bender gets a pass? Neither has played well, I think we just like the idea of Bender more.

You can find 100 guys that can dunk and I can find 100 that shot 28% from 3.

Bender is getting more of a pass here because:
1) He didn't play almost 2000 minutes in the league last year.
2) He doesn't bitch and moan and give up on plays if he doesn't get a call.
3) He is white.

Indy wrote:

Split T wrote:

ShelC wrote:

Split T wrote:

ShelC wrote:He should be dominating SL.

Why? Should Bender be dominating too? Maybe you're looking at Chriss wrong. He's not a creator, he's a finisher. He needs someone to get him the ball. My guess is he'd look a lot better playing with a PG like Ulis. Good thing he'll have one when the real games start.

Bender barely played last year so he gets a pass. But he's still shown more than Chriss IMO. If Chriss is just a finisher, fine. But that's still not enough. He needs to rebound, get better in traffic, get better defensively. I can find 100 guys who can finish with a dunk.

What exactly has he shown more than Chriss? Chriss has out rebounded Bender. He's out scored Bender. They've shot the same percentage. Is it the 1 more assist? This is my point, this board is filled with criticisms of Chriss, admittedly they are mostly fair, but Bender gets a pass? Neither has played well, I think we just like the idea of Bender more.

You can find 100 guys that can dunk and I can find 100 that shot 28% from 3.

Bender is getting more of a pass here because:
1) He didn't play almost 2000 minutes in the league last year.
2) He doesn't bitch and moan and give up on plays if he doesn't get a call.
3) He is white.

I understand that a little bit, but there were many people calling for Bender to play last year and thought he was already better than Chriss. If he was really better than Chriss last year, we'd see it in summer league.

The attitude stuff is fair. I don't like how he gives up when things don't go his way. That's the biggest knock on him in my opinion.

Split T wrote:

Indy wrote:

Split T wrote:

ShelC wrote:

Split T wrote:
Why? Should Bender be dominating too? Maybe you're looking at Chriss wrong. He's not a creator, he's a finisher. He needs someone to get him the ball. My guess is he'd look a lot better playing with a PG like Ulis. Good thing he'll have one when the real games start.

Bender barely played last year so he gets a pass. But he's still shown more than Chriss IMO. If Chriss is just a finisher, fine. But that's still not enough. He needs to rebound, get better in traffic, get better defensively. I can find 100 guys who can finish with a dunk.

What exactly has he shown more than Chriss? Chriss has out rebounded Bender. He's out scored Bender. They've shot the same percentage. Is it the 1 more assist? This is my point, this board is filled with criticisms of Chriss, admittedly they are mostly fair, but Bender gets a pass? Neither has played well, I think we just like the idea of Bender more.

You can find 100 guys that can dunk and I can find 100 that shot 28% from 3.

Bender is getting more of a pass here because:
1) He didn't play almost 2000 minutes in the league last year.
2) He doesn't bitch and moan and give up on plays if he doesn't get a call.
3) He is white.

I understand that a little bit, but there were many people calling for Bender to play last year and thought he was already better than Chriss. If he was really better than Chriss last year, we'd see it in summer league.

The attitude stuff is fair. I don't like how he gives up when things don't go his way. That's the biggest knock on him in my opinion.

The biggest flaw I see is his lack of knowing where to be/play to make. But the attitude is a really close 2nd for me. That is probably why I give Bender more leeway. He knows where to be/right play to make, and never bitches/moans, especially to the detriment of his team. But he hasn't shown much outside of that.