Phx-Suns.Net

The Bobster wrote:These players are 40 games into their careers. It's a little premature to judge what order they should have gone in the draft. Most of them are still to young to drink legally!

Speaking of which -- let's assume that (a) rookies will generally improve over the first few months; and (b) stats for later months in the season are a more meaningful measure of a rookie's potential than stats for the entire season. Then, let's look at rookie splits for January:

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/play ... s/split/42
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/play ... s/split/42

I think that Josh Jackson is doing fine in a good draft class, now that the lights have been turned on. And I'm curious how much further he moves up in the rookie standings as we move into February and March. If he averages 15 and 4 for the rest of the season on good shooting percentages -- in only 24 minutes per game -- you'd be crazy to consider him a disappointment. You're looking at a 22 and 6 per 36 minutes player -- and a well-rounded one that plays defense at that.

INFORMER wrote:

virtual9mm wrote:

specialsauce wrote:

virtual9mm wrote:

specialsauce wrote:There’s prospects that you can tell they are just young and are making mistakes, then there’s players that have no aggression and play scared. I have never seen somebody grow from the latter.

Dragic.

Wrong, sorry virtual. See above video and just YouTube his rookie year.

I watched him his rookie year, quite closely. The concerns we had about him very much mirror the concerns we have about Bender.

People's perceptions/concerns aside, Dragic was never this bad.

Was he? I remember having very worried/concerned/angry conversations about how passive Dragic was, and how much of a fool Kerr was in believing in him, and how much we'd deluded ourselves. And Bender has definitely shown flashes. Better to have an inconsistent player than one that never flashes anything at all.

This doesn't mean that he's going to become as aggressive as Kobe Bryant all of a sudden. He might remain a far more passive player than we'd like. Yet, I also remember how frustrating Ason Kidd was before he got traded and found a jump shot. He'd get all the way to the rim and pass because he didn't like to take a shot.

I think there is definitely some revisionist history here about how good Dragic was in his first couple of years. I mean this is a player we traded for freaking Aaron Brooks. He wasn't that great for several years. Players improve over time, especially very young ones.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:I think there is definitely some revisionist history here about how good Dragic was in his first couple of years. I mean this is a player we traded for freaking Aaron Brooks. He wasn't that great for several years. Players improve over time, especially very young ones.

I feel like Dragic is the most overrated Suns player ever. Dude was decent, had 1 really good year, but gimme a break on how good people this dude was.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:I think there is definitely some revisionist history here about how good Dragic was in his first couple of years. I mean this is a player we traded for freaking Aaron Brooks. He wasn't that great for several years. Players improve over time, especially very young ones.

https://youtu.be/LLWjQ7nZTkI

https://youtu.be/t_-2b3vpnW0

Yeah he sucked

Just because the team was dumb and traded him for brooks doesn’t reflect on him

specialsauce wrote:

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:I think there is definitely some revisionist history here about how good Dragic was in his first couple of years. I mean this is a player we traded for freaking Aaron Brooks. He wasn't that great for several years. Players improve over time, especially very young ones.

https://youtu.be/LLWjQ7nZTkI

https://youtu.be/t_-2b3vpnW0

Yeah he sucked

That was the end of his second year, when he was just under 24 years old.

Just a year prior, as a 22 year old rookie, he looked awful. He couldn't bring the ball up-court against pressure. He was called the worst player in the NBA by John Hollinger.

Bender is still 2 years younger than that. Imagine Dragic in the NBA at 20.

Superbone wrote:

Split T wrote:

specialsauce wrote:Bender was billed as a good ball handler, take it to the hole in the fast break type of player. He makes Boris Diaw look like Allen Iverson. He doesn’t even try to make an offensive move. That’s not going to change. It’s his DNA.

Dirk was never passive just like Dragic wasn’t. Neither was Marc Gasol. Or Tony Parker. Or Ginobili. Or Greek freak. Or KP. Or Lauri Markkanen. They improved their games SURE, but their style of play and demeanor didn’t change. Age doesn’t fix that. Age may fix other things like improving his shot, cutting down on turnovers, improved defense, but he’s not going to become an aggressive player. I don’t think he’s cut out to be a core player in this league.

How many of those guys came into the nba at 18? You're also only comparing him to the European superstars. No one has ever expected Bender to be a star.

Why not? One would expect quite a bit from the 4th pick in the draft.

All the experts at the time billed it as a weak draft after the top 2. There were quite a few people around here who were convinced we should trade down because it was the kind of draft where later picks are just as likely to be good as earlier picks. I've always seen Bender as a project who just might turn out to be a Lamar Odom type role player. And I really wanted Sabonis and D. Murray later in the draft.

INFORMER wrote:

Split T wrote: Neither has shown much towards being good NBA players, but there's not many players in general from that draft showing much.

Besides the consensus top two picks, these guys are all trending upwards towards good to really good players:

Kris Dunn, Buddy Hield, Sabonis, Taurean Prince, Denzel Valentine, Caris Levert, Jamaal Murray, Jaylen Brown

Add to that Dejonte Murray is starting for the Spurs.

And even if you want to give a pass by taking the stance that it was just a terrible draft, then I have a serious issue with a GM that moves assets to move up a few spots in such a "terrible" draft.

Most of those guys are getting significantly better coaching that our guys got last year, but I guess is isn't a surprise when teams that can recognize good coaching talent can also recognize good player talent.

specialsauce wrote:Just because the team was dumb and traded him for brooks doesn’t reflect on him

Tell me about it. I hate that trade and was very vocal about it, and had plenty of people lined up to tell me how wrong I was.

INFORMER wrote:

specialsauce wrote:Just because the team was dumb and traded him for brooks doesn’t reflect on him

Tell me about it. I hate that trade and was very vocal about it, and had plenty of people lined up to tell me how wrong I was.

That's back when I was young and naive giving the front office the benefit of the doubt.

iLLmatic wrote:

INFORMER wrote:

specialsauce wrote:Just because the team was dumb and traded him for brooks doesn’t reflect on him

Tell me about it. I hate that trade and was very vocal about it, and had plenty of people lined up to tell me how wrong I was.

That's back when I was young and naive giving the front office the benefit of the doubt.

It's been a bad trade every time the Suns traded Dragic.

The Miami trade wasn't bad. It was terrible that we ruined the relationship with Dragic, but Ryan did a solid job of getting a good return for him.

INFORMER wrote:The Miami trade wasn't bad. It was terrible that we ruined the relationship with Dragic, but Ryan did a solid job of getting a good return for him.

Yeah, I should have clarified. I'm not talking about what we got back in both cases but he shouldn't have been traded either time and McD should have handled the situation better.

I remember being ok with the original dragic trade when I thought we were getting the first round pick in the deal, but then we found out we we're sending the first round pick with dragic for Brooks. That made no sense to me.

A backup PG having a bad season that had an expiring contract that Houston did not plan to re-sign somehow netted them a young, promising PG prospect and a first round pick. Dragic was struggling, but that made no sense.

INFORMER wrote:

specialsauce wrote:Just because the team was dumb and traded him for brooks doesn’t reflect on him

Tell me about it. I hate that trade and was very vocal about it, and had plenty of people lined up to tell me how wrong I was.

Come on. People defended that trade? It was atrocious the second it was made. Lance Blanks at his best.

I don't know if I have ever hated a trade more than Dragic-Brooks (perhaps Hedo. And Shaq). Getting rid of the heir apparent to Nash who had torched the Spurs? Incredible.

Shabazz wrote:

INFORMER wrote:

specialsauce wrote:Just because the team was dumb and traded him for brooks doesn’t reflect on him

Tell me about it. I hate that trade and was very vocal about it, and had plenty of people lined up to tell me how wrong I was.

Come on. People defended that trade? It was atrocious the second it was made. L___e B____s at his best.

I can't wait to see what Sarver's next GM does.