Phx-Suns.Net

In2ition wrote:

Flagrant Fowl wrote:I'm with INF on this one.

Trae Young is overrated and I'm skeptical about his ability to become anything more than a backup PG in the NBA.

I also like Ayton, he's as about as sure as it gets as a top 3 pick in the draft. But I'm not sold that he's a franchise changing player right now.

That's fine. It doesn't change my mind at all.

Don’t worry, it doesn’t matter now if they like Trae Young or not, once the Suns slip to #4 in the lottery and have to pick between Bagley, Young, or Bamba, Trae will all of a sudden look like a splendid option.

I'd gladly take Bagley over Trae. Bamba too and I'm not sold on Bamba

Bagley is my dude after Luka. I think he can play C no problem and I love his energy & activity.

carey wrote:Bagley is my dude after Luka. I think he can play C no problem and I love his energy & activity.

Agreed

In2ition wrote: I think Young spreads the floor, which relieves pressure on Booker, is an elite shooter and an elite ball handler with excellent to outstanding court vision.

I believe that the best of Ayton will be displayed in the NBA, as he has range outside the post, is good passer, elite athlete, rebounder, good free throw shooter, excellent footwork in the post, and I also believe that an era of a good center will come back and be valuable again.

At the NBA level, I don't think there will be anything elite about Young.

As far as your assessment of Ayton, I don't disagree that is what he could be. (although I don't think his athleticism is elite; it's very good, but elite is a bit of a hypebole) However, I also think Ayton could just turn into a solid big that puts up good numbers, but doesn't move the needle.

In2ition wrote:

The thing I think is silly about that Tweet is that it is focused on stats that don't really tell the whole story. It doesn't mention the plummeting shooting percentages and gargantuan amount of turnovers.

I'm not ok with my point guard scoring 20 points if he has to shoot the ball 30 times and turns the ball over eight times.

INFORMER wrote:

In2ition wrote:

INFORMER wrote:

In2ition wrote: I was just thinking about how a young core of (hopefully) Booker, Jackson, Ayton, and Young(along with possibly Warren &). It would be the best core, imo hands down.

Best "young" core in the West. Let me clarify, I think that all of them will pan out to be very good players to All-Star to near All-Star players.

I just don't see reason to include Trae Young.

We need a PG and he may be available with the MIA pick.

I don't think there is even a chance he'll be there.

In2ition wrote:

specialsauce wrote:I agree. We are at a completely different stage though. They all have developed cohesive units. We just have a couple of shiny pieces. We have a long ways to go to compare ourselves to any of those teams.

You're right. I'm getting the cart before the horse. BTW, I honestly believe that the Suns being crappy the past few years was by design. McD subtly or not subtly tanked. I just hope the pick and players fall into place to make it worth it.

Actually. Now watching Atlanta, it seems that part of rebuilding is going cheap on coaches too. A coach that wants to win wants no part of a rebuild. So you get "player development" coaches who are not going to win many games. Is it possible that McD knew Watson was not going to be very successful, or Triano either? Good coaches know when to take a job--its right on the verge of the turnaround.

INFORMER wrote:

In2ition wrote:

The thing I think is silly about that Tweet is that it is focused on stats that don't really tell the whole story. It doesn't mention the plummeting shooting percentages and gargantuan amount of turnovers.

I'm not ok with my point guard scoring 20 points if he has to shoot the ball 30 times and turns the ball over eight times.

Well, your post isn't telling whole story either and you have more than 248 characters available to you.

INFORMER wrote:

In2ition wrote: I think Young spreads the floor, which relieves pressure on Booker, is an elite shooter and an elite ball handler with excellent to outstanding court vision.

I believe that the best of Ayton will be displayed in the NBA, as he has range outside the post, is good passer, elite athlete, rebounder, good free throw shooter, excellent footwork in the post, and I also believe that an era of a good center will come back and be valuable again.

At the NBA level, I don't think there will be anything elite about Young.

As far as your assessment of Ayton, I don't disagree that is what he could be. (although I don't think his athleticism is elite; it's very good, but elite is a bit of a hypebole) However, I also think Ayton could just turn into a solid big that puts up good numbers, but doesn't move the needle.

Elite is hardly hyperbole for a '7"1 center with a 45 in vert.

Yeah, Young is an elite spot up shooter, check the stats.

You may have your own feelings about Young and Ayton, but they are not moving the needle one bit to me. It kind of reminds me of the NBA scout that was convinced and trying to convince me that Derrick Williams was going to be a better pro than Kyrie Irving before that draft.

What makes Trae Young better than say Trey Burke?

His stock skyrocketed because of his crazy first half of the season. Was that just a hot streak? Or did the constant doubling and lack of any good teammates just catch up to him?

How effective will he be in the NBA against NBA length?
Does he need to have the offense built around him in the NBA?
How good of a shooter is he? Is he Curry level or Kemba level?
Can he play off the ball, run through screens, spot up, etc, like Curry does?

Can he defend anyone?
Can he take care of the ball?

He's got a lot of question marks to me. Sure, he'd be worth the risk at 16, but he won't make it that far. But I would not be happy if we took him top 4.

Split T wrote:What makes Trae Young better than say Trey Burke?

His stock skyrocketed because of his crazy first half of the season. Was that just a hot streak? Or did the constant doubling and lack of any good teammates just catch up to him?

How effective will he be in the NBA against NBA length?
Does he need to have the offense built around him in the NBA?
How good of a shooter is he? Is he Curry level or Kemba level?
Can he play off the ball, run through screens, spot up, etc, like Curry does?

Can he defend anyone?
Can he take care of the ball?

He's got a lot of question marks to me. Sure, he'd be worth the risk at 16, but he won't make it that far. But I would not be happy if we took him top 4.

Better production even at a much younger age, and better skills

I think he suffered from over use and a bit of the same thing Booker suffered with without help.

Not exactly sure, but it didn't seem to slow down Nash or Curry after getting adjusted to the league.

It may be that an offense would be built around him, but he would be effective in a good ball movement offense.

He is a phenomenal shooter who can spot up, go around screens, shoot off the dribble, ect.

I don't know if he can defend.

I believe that he can take care of the ball, but it wouldn't look like it if he was the primary and only threat.

I wouldn't say their production was a whole lot different. Burke was player of the year as a sophomore. He put up 18 points and 7 assists a game and shot 38% from 3. Young had more points and assists, 27/9, but he only shot 36% from 3, even after that ridiculous start. He also has a little westbrookitis, where his numbers are inflated because he literally does everything for his team. He also averaged over 5 turnovers a game. Burke was at 2.5. The advance stats all favor Burke over Young.

You used Curry and Nash as comparisons in regards to adjusting to NBA length, but they are quite possibly the two greatest shooters of all time and both are/were very crafty finishers in the paint. At this point, you can't put Trae in the Nash/Curry class of shooters and he's not a good finisher at the rim.

In2ition wrote:

INFORMER wrote:

In2ition wrote:

The thing I think is silly about that Tweet is that it is focused on stats that don't really tell the whole story. It doesn't mention the plummeting shooting percentages and gargantuan amount of turnovers.

I'm not ok with my point guard scoring 20 points if he has to shoot the ball 30 times and turns the ball over eight times.

Well, your post isn't telling whole story either and you have more than 248 characters available to you.

Huh?

In2ition wrote:

INFORMER wrote:
At the NBA level, I don't think there will be anything elite about Young.

Yeah, Young is an elite spot up shooter, check the stats.

I'm not sure I get why you responded this way.

In2ition wrote:

INFORMER wrote: As far as your assessment of Ayton, I don't disagree that is what he could be. (although I don't think his athleticism is elite; it's very good, but elite is a bit of a hyperbole).

Elite is hardly hyperbole for a '7"1 center with a 45 in vert.

I'm just talking about in-game, not combine numbers. The elite athleticism didn't really show up, not that it needed to.

INFORMER wrote:

In2ition wrote:

INFORMER wrote: As far as your assessment of Ayton, I don't disagree that is what he could be. (although I don't think his athleticism is elite; it's very good, but elite is a bit of a hyperbole).

Elite is hardly hyperbole for a '7"1 center with a 45 in vert.

I'm just talking about in-game, not combine numbers. The elite athleticism didn't really show up, not that it needed to.

I agree with what I've seen from him so far. He's a very good athlete, but I haven't seen that "unicorn" quality everyone covets now.

Yeah, he's not like Dwight Howard was where you see him skying through the air or dunking on people "with no regard for human life" or speeding down the court and just obliterating someone's shot attempt at the rim on the fast break.

And that's fine. I wouldn't hold that against Ayton. It's not to say that he is a stiff or a guaranteed bust. I love the way he moves his feet; you can see the benefit soccer has had on his coordination.

He has the athleticism, he may just need to learn how to use it. I think that can be taught. The actual athleticism can't.