Phx-Suns.Net

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:17 pm

I just don't believe in "twin towers" lineups. I'd rather have a shooter at the PF, even one who's struggled as mightily as Anderson has.

I agree that one of your PF/C combo has to be able to stretch the floor. Honestly, I expect Ayton to be pretty good from 3 once we let him play out that far. I thought Igor was protecting him from it by not letting him shoot 3s so he could focus on defense, but it looks like he isn't focusing on either.

Indy wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 23, 2018 2:18 pm

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:17 pm

I just don't believe in "twin towers" lineups. I'd rather have a shooter at the PF, even one who's struggled as mightily as Anderson has.

I agree that one of your PF/C combo has to be able to stretch the floor. Honestly, I expect Ayton to be pretty good from 3 once we let him play out that far. I thought Igor was protecting him from it by not letting him shoot 3s so he could focus on defense, but it looks like he isn't focusing on either.

I assume Ayton isn’t shooting 3s because he doesn’t yet have that shot in his arsenal. But give him an off-season with TJ’s shooting coach...

I am really not in a rush to see Ayton launching threes.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 23, 2018 3:51 pm

I am really not in a rush to see Ayton launching threes.

No rush on my end. I really want him to focus on getting good position on offense, and doing his job on defense. But if we insist on him setting picks at the 3 point line, and staying behind it, he needs to be able to shoot them. I just don't understand why Book and others call him to set a pick 6-8 feet behind the 3 pt line. Drives me crazy.

It helps with spacing and draws defenders out further. I thought our spacing early in the year was awful and allowed defenders to help or cheat. I like the spread PnR but it does leave the 5 man out of position unless the ballhandler can delay/probe a bit or draw both defenders so the 5 can roll down the lane. Crawford can do something like that, Booker not as much right now.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 23, 2018 3:51 pm

I am really not in a rush to see Ayton launching threes.

Agreed. I think it is more important for him to work on a go-to faceup move. And of course... defense.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:17 pm

I just don't believe in "twin towers" lineups. I'd rather have a shooter at the PF, even one who's struggled as mightily as Anderson has.

Maybe a twin towers with Bol Bol playing on the perimeter?

In2ition wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:13 pm

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:17 pm

I just don't believe in "twin towers" lineups. I'd rather have a shooter at the PF, even one who's struggled as mightily as Anderson has.

Maybe a twin towers with Bol Bol playing on the perimeter?

Now THAT I'd be okay with.

Holmes is listed as a PF, not a Center. Ayton has shown he can rebound and make baskets but, interior defense is lacking. Holmes interior defense seems much better than Aytons IMO and the combo of the two seems like something I certainly would be willing to try. I don’t care what you call it. You make do with the pieces you have or go get pieces that fit. The lineup I posted seems to me like the best fitting, best playing five on the team. Unfortunately the bench would have to play.

Nodack wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:29 am

Holmes is listed as a PF, not a Center. Ayton has shown he can rebound and make baskets but, interior defense is lacking. Holmes interior defense seems much better than Aytons IMO and the combo of the two seems like something I certainly would be willing to try. I don’t care what you call it. You make do with the pieces you have or go get pieces that fit. The lineup I posted seems to me like the best fitting, best playing five on the team. Unfortunately the bench would have to play.

bb-ref lists him as a Center and PF, but shows he played 99% of his minutes at C this year, with his career average at 87% of his minutes there.

But I agree that his ferocity is fun to watch. I am not sure how effective it is, though. As usually, we have a few guys at the same position that if you found a way to meld two guys into 1, you would have an all-world player.

If you google Suns roster he is listed as a PF. Yes he has played most of his minutes here as a C. Booker is a SG but is playing as our PG.

Holmes is a center in today's NBA. It isn't even a question. If for some reason you were to play him and Ayton at the same time, Ayton would play PF.

n4th4n wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:13 pm

Holmes is a center in today's NBA. It isn't even a question. If for some reason you were to play him and Ayton at the same time, Ayton would play PF.

Probably a contingency we should prepare for. If Ariza or Warren should become unavailable (as Warren often does), I don’t want to have to turn to Anderson or Bender at PF.

Holmes isn't a pf, and they don't want to play Ayton at pf.

Nodack wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:15 pm

If you google Suns roster he is listed as a PF. Yes he has played most of his minutes here as a C. Booker is a SG but is playing as our PG.

But of his 4 years in the league, he has played 83% of his minutes at the C. I am not sure what source google is using, but it isn't any source I can find. Everyone I can find list him as a Forward/Center.

In the end it doesn't matter much either way. For his career, he shoots sub-40% if he is more than 3 feet from the basket, and under 25% from 3. That makes it very hard to be a starter, much less be a starting PF.

In2ition wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:49 pm

Holmes isn't a pf, and they don't want to play Ayton at pf.

They may not want to play Ayton at PF, but if the alternative is Anderson or Bender, isn’t Ayton a better option?

Cap wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:28 pm

In2ition wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:49 pm

Holmes isn't a pf, and they don't want to play Ayton at pf.

They may not want to play Ayton at PF, but if the alternative is Anderson or Bender, isn’t Ayton a better option?

You are asking a rookie that is the future center for the Suns for hopefully the next 10-15 years to learn another position when he's trying to learn how to best be a center? Doesn't he have enough on his plate right now and things that he needs to learn, players that he's going to be matched up against to learn how they play and how to play against them, skills that he needs and continues to need to improve?

I honestly think this is a BAD idea. I'd rather keep giving Bender some time. He's not going to go 0-?? forever. He does provide a little bit of support in weakside blocks and help defense that Ayton could use from time to time.

In2ition wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 24, 2018 9:37 pm

Cap wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:28 pm

In2ition wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:49 pm

Holmes isn't a pf, and they don't want to play Ayton at pf.

They may not want to play Ayton at PF, but if the alternative is Anderson or Bender, isn’t Ayton a better option?

You are asking a rookie that is the future center for the Suns for hopefully the next 10-15 years to learn another position when he's trying to learn how to best be a center? Doesn't he have enough on his plate right now and things that he needs to learn, players that he's going to be matched up against to learn how they play and how to play against them, skills that he needs and continues to need to improve?

I don’t think he’d need to spend a heck of a lot of time working on it to be a better option than Anderson or Bender. Remember, he played PF last year at Arizona. Just spend a few practices working on offensive and defensive sets with a Holmes-Ayton lineup as an in-case-of-emergency-break-glass option.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:26 pm

In2ition wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:13 pm

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:17 pm

I just don't believe in "twin towers" lineups. I'd rather have a shooter at the PF, even one who's struggled as mightily as Anderson has.

Maybe a twin towers with Bol Bol playing on the perimeter?

Now THAT I'd be okay with.

Yes sir! I think Bol Bol should be able to operate at the top of the key and feed Ayton in the low post.